America: A Failing Marriage - Talk About Marriage
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post #1 of 525 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 08:37 AM Thread Starter
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America: A Failing Marriage

Are we Americans headed for a divorce?

I'm not starting a hate/love Trump debate here. What I want to discuss is the ever-widening rift between "progressives" and "conservatives", and the ugliness and toxicity we have watched grow and grow since the 1960s.

Are we headed for a divorce? Because in my 49 years on this earth I have never seen the level of pure blood-lust hatred between Americans against Americans. No longer do we, as a collective society, agree on the fundamentals of the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights. There are those, like myself, who say that the law of the United states must remain fixed, like a rock in the storm. Then there are others who say that the Constitution was written in pencil, and that those principles and precepts that no longer apply in the modern world should be tossed out in favor of more malleable laws that bob and float where the currents and tradewinds of popular sentiment take them.

We hear talk of Alaska, California, Oregon and Washington wanting to succeed from the union. Texas has been threatening it for decades.

Are we heading for another civil war? And what would that be like? I cannot fathom the Federal government allowing California to succeed from the U.S. If I am not mistaken, California holds under its golden ground over 1/3 of our domestic oil reserves. I do not see the Feds allowing this to happen. I can literally, in my minds eye, see tanks and troops rolling down Hollywood Boulevard. I can see Humvees and marines pouring out of Camp Pendleton, heading to Sacramento to quell violent riots and attempted takeover of the state capitol. I can see L.A. and San Francisco burning, people fleeing in droves to Arizona and Nevada... infinite, unending lines of cars and trucks and R.V.s winding along I-10 and I-40, desperately trying to get away from the eruption of violence between citizens and the U.S. Military.

I'm not trying to be dramatic here, but I can see this happening. Face it: we love each other, but we just cannot live together anymore.

I think it is getting to the point where Americans have to take sides and square off....Michael Douglas or Kathleen Turner, take your pick. It is not going to be an amicable divorce. It is going to be a War of the Roses of epic scale, that will devastate us and rock the rest of the world to its foundation. It will be friend against friend, brother against brother, wife against daughter. It happened before and it can happen again.

We are deluding ourselves if we say that our domestic problems are purely ours to worry about. There is a reason the rest of the world is watching us so intently now. They are much more hip to the implications of this impending divorce than we are. They know that the entire world economy could collapse into chaos if we don't handle this divorce right. They are scared sh!tless and they have every right to be.

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post #2 of 525 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 08:44 AM
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Re: America: A Failing Marriage

There won't be a civil war, or if there were to be one, it would last about a day. The liberals are unarmed, and Trump supporters are anything but unarmed. This is even without counting the military, who is still pinching themselves to make sure that they are awake and not saddled with Hillary.

On the other hand, I'd be happy to sign a petition for #CalExit.

We can do without their oil. We have lots of coal.

Even better, let northern California secede from southern California first.

That would make getting rid of the infestation of liberals even more worthwhile.

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post #3 of 525 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 09:18 AM
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Re: America: A Failing Marriage

Before sending the Golden State off to independence, check how much they contribute to the budget vs how much they receive...
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post #4 of 525 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 09:29 AM Thread Starter
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Re: America: A Failing Marriage

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Before sending the Golden State off to independence, check how much they contribute to the budget vs how much they receive...
6th largest economy in the world are they not?

The pre-Civil War Southern states were, collectively, the 5th largest economy in the world circa 1858.

One would be foolish to think California would be allowed to de-annex without a fight, and yet there are political leaders and activists who really want it to happen. And this is not just a fringe group. It is a growing movement. Same thing is happening in Alaska.
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post #5 of 525 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 09:37 AM Thread Starter
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Re: America: A Failing Marriage

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There won't be a civil war, or if there were to be one, it would last about a day. The liberals are unarmed, and Trump supporters are anything but unarmed. This is even without counting the military, who is still pinching themselves to make sure that they are awake and not saddled with Hillary.

On the other hand, I'd be happy to sign a petition for #CalExit.

We can do without their oil. We have lots of coal.

Even better, let northern California secede from southern California first.

That would make getting rid of the infestation of liberals even more worthwhile.
See but I think to lose Cali would be a disaster.

1) Loss of oil reserves;

2) Loss of the movie/entertainment industry. Love it or hate it, it is still a huge economic generator.

3) Loss of a huge food basket. The Sacramento, San Joaquin and Imperial Valleys produce about 50% of the produce eaten by the U.S. western states combined. Can you imagine the impact on food prices if we had to import that produce?

4) Loss of high tech manufacturing. I don't even need to explain this one.

I just don't see how we could let them go without a huge fight, and not without military intervention.
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post #6 of 525 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 09:46 AM
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Re: America: A Failing Marriage

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Originally Posted by bandit.45 View Post
Face it: we love each other, but we just cannot live together anymore.
That's a good way to put it. I appreciate how you tied your post to a forum about marriage.

I think the major change that has caused such a rift is that Americans don't all receive the same news anymore like we did when we all watched either the CBS, NBC, or ABC evening news and read the same few newspapers. We can all now choose the news we want and we tend to watch news that reinforces our opinions.
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post #7 of 525 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 09:46 AM
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Cool Re: America: A Failing Marriage

Maybe I'm just being delusional here, but I greatly fear that when and if America ever falls, may God forbid that from ever happening, it will do so without a single shot being fired!

What literally scares the crap out of me, at least from an historical standpoint, is the disturbing parallel between the nationalistic rise of Hitler in Germany and the similar kind of rise of in Trump here!

"Those who fail to remember the events of history are certainly doomed to repeat it!" ~ George Setanyana

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Last edited by arbitrator; 02-21-2017 at 10:07 AM. Reason: Edification
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post #8 of 525 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 09:51 AM
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Re: America: A Failing Marriage

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See but I think to lose Cali would be a disaster.

1) Loss of oil reserves;

2) Loss of the movie/entertainment industry. Love it or hate it, it is still a huge economic generator.

3) Loss of a huge food basket. The Sacramento, San Joaquin and Imperial Valleys produce about 50% of the produce eaten by the U.S. western states combined. Can you imagine the impact on food prices if we had to import that produce?

4) Loss of high tech manufacturing. I don't even need to explain this one.

I just don't see how we could let them go without a huge fight, and not without military intervention.
Hollywood is a nest of vipers.
And as for food, I'd be happy to pay more just to not have to see Nancy Pelosi, Diane Feinstein, or Maxine Waters spewing their hatred and insanity.
I wasn't saying that we shouldn't trade with the Republic of California, just that I don't want their retarded politics having such an impact on the rest of the country.
Washington DC and New York City should secede too.

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post #9 of 525 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 10:02 AM
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Re: America: A Failing Marriage

Everyone keep referring to nationalistic Germany of the 1930's but it is really more akin to the war between the states of 1860's... read about Union and Confederate nationalism, especially for the Confederacy, and you will see where it had lain.

Talk about Hitler keeps emotions running high I suppose...

I was just reading about Washington State... they don't seem to want to secede from the US, just from Seattle...
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post #10 of 525 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 10:05 AM
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Re: America: A Failing Marriage

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Before sending the Golden State off to independence, check how much they contribute to the budget vs how much they receive...
Where do they get their water from? What happens when they shut it off. Can't grow crops without water.

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post #11 of 525 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 10:06 AM Thread Starter
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Re: America: A Failing Marriage

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Maybe I'm just being delusional here, but I greatly fear that when and if America ever falls, may God forbid that from ever happening, it will do so without a single shot being fired!

What literally scares the crap out of me, at least from an historical standpoint, is the disturbing parallel between the nationalistic rise of Hitler in Germany and the similar kind of rise of in Trump here!
I think we are doing well enough financially for any kind of fascism to erupt. Most extreme government types, like communism, fascism or theocracies, tend to form out of countries that have undergone extreme economic strife. Like the Nazi party arising from the ashes of the economic wasteland that was Germany post-WWI, or the rise of the Ayatollah Khomeini in Iran after the U.S. covertly put him in power to get rid of the Shah, who wanted to nationalize the Iranian oil industry, or the rise of the Bolsheviks after the devastation of Russia by famine.

I fear the "progressives" starting up a Communist movement as much as you fear conservatives starting up a fascist movement. And therein lies the problem. We all fear each other.
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post #12 of 525 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 10:08 AM
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Re: America: A Failing Marriage

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Originally Posted by bandit.45 View Post
Are we Americans headed for a divorce?

I'm not starting a hate/love Trump debate here. What I want to discuss is the ever-widening rift between "progressives" and "conservatives", and the ugliness and toxicity we have watched grow and grow since the 1960s.

Are we headed for a divorce? Because in my 49 years on this earth I have never seen the level of pure blood-lust hatred between Americans against Americans. No longer do we, as a collective society, agree on the fundamentals of the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights. There are those, like myself, who say that the law of the United states must remain fixed, like a rock in the storm. Then there are others who say that the Constitution was written in pencil, and that those principles and precepts that no longer apply in the modern world should be tossed out in favor of more malleable laws that bob and float where the currents and tradewinds of popular sentiment take them.

We hear talk of Alaska, California, Oregon and Washington wanting to succeed from the union. Texas has been threatening it for decades.

Are we heading for another civil war? And what would that be like? I cannot fathom the Federal government allowing California to succeed from the U.S. If I am not mistaken, California holds under its golden ground over 1/3 of our domestic oil reserves. I do not see the Feds allowing this to happen. I can literally, in my minds eye, see tanks and troops rolling down Hollywood Boulevard. I can see Humvees and marines pouring out of Camp Pendleton, heading to Sacramento to quell violent riots and attempted takeover of the state capitol. I can see L.A. and San Francisco burning, people fleeing in droves to Arizona and Nevada... infinite, unending lines of cars and trucks and R.V.s winding along I-10 and I-40, desperately trying to get away from the eruption of violence between citizens and the U.S. Military.

I'm not trying to be dramatic here, but I can see this happening. Face it: we love each other, but we just cannot live together anymore.

I think it is getting to the point where Americans have to take sides and square off....Michael Douglas or Kathleen Turner, take your pick. It is not going to be an amicable divorce. It is going to be a War of the Roses of epic scale, that will devastate us and rock the rest of the world to its foundation. It will be friend against friend, brother against brother, wife against daughter. It happened before and it can happen again.

We are deluding ourselves if we say that our domestic problems are purely ours to worry about. There is a reason the rest of the world is watching us so intently now. They are much more hip to the implications of this impending divorce than we are. They know that the entire world economy could collapse into chaos if we don't handle this divorce right. They are scared sh!tless and they have every right to be.
Succeeding from the union is all talk. No state can afford to lose Fed assistance. Civil war? Not likely. Concerning tanks and what not....it has happened in the past. Riots and protests have, historically, occurred in every decade. For much the same reason we see today. America marches on.

“You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.”
― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road
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post #13 of 525 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 10:09 AM Thread Starter
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Re: America: A Failing Marriage

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Where do they get their water from? What happens when they shut it off. Can't grow crops without water.
Southern California gets it mostly from the Colorado. As do Nevada and Arizona.

The division of the Colorado opens up a whole other can of worms. And who gets to oversee that enormous lawsuit? The Hague?
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post #14 of 525 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 10:14 AM
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Re: America: A Failing Marriage

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Southern California gets it mostly from the Colorado. As do Nevada and Arizona.

The division of the Colorado opens up a whole other can of worms. And who gets to oversee that enormous lawsuit? The Hague?
Right now CA has plenty of water(floods). Anyway, CA has what the 3rd largest economy in the world? There is a small number of people yelling succession. Further, being such a large economic powerhouse, the Fed will continue to keep it happy with dollars and assistance.

“You're painfully alive in a drugged and dying culture.”
― Richard Yates, Revolutionary Road
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post #15 of 525 (permalink) Old 02-21-2017, 10:15 AM Thread Starter
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Re: America: A Failing Marriage

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Everyone keep referring to nationalistic Germany of the 1930's but it is really more akin to the war between the states of 1860's... read about Union and Confederate nationalism, especially for the Confederacy, and you will see where it had lain.

Talk about Hitler keeps emotions running high I suppose...

I was just reading about Washington State... they don't seem to want to secede from the US, just from Seattle...
Comparing trump to Hitler is childish....buffoonish. I actually get embarrassed for people who actually bring that up.

I don't see Trump gathering ex-convicts to become Brownshirts to beat and kill progressives into subjugation. I don't see him calling for Mexicans to be rounded up and put into gas chambers. I don't recall him writing a Mein Kampf....

I don't like Trump. But I didn't like Obama either. I didn't vote for Obama, but you know what? When he was elected I wished him the best and hoped he would do great things (other than Obamacare). He failed miserably of course, but I still wished him well. I wish Trump well also, although I am wary.
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