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post #31 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 10:35 PM
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Re: Finally

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Obamacare wasn't an entitlement; it was keeping people from having to declare bankruptcy (only in America) any time they get a real illness. I know of nobody who got 'better off' with Obamacare, but I know many many people who, for the first time, were able to go to a doctor.
What is was not, was affordable, and that cannot be denied. So, if we had a single larger insurer (Medicare), they could easily dictate what each procedure would and should cost. These price indexes could be negotiated every year with the AMA and AHA. As it stands now each medical organization has separate negotiations with each of the separate insurer. This is inefficient and often why there is a disparity in the cost even within a town between medical centers for a given procedure. So, hospitals and medical centers will charge one insurer more to make up for the other one that got a cut. This does not mean that the hospital is hurting for money, it simply means they have overhead and realized profits that accounts are counting on each quarter. This is a trillion dollar industry and makes defense contractors look like used car salesman.

Add to it - we are an unhealthy society that is over tested and over medicated. As long as this persist, prices will continue to rise.

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post #32 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 11:02 PM
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Re: Finally

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I think it is evident with who is in charge as to which of these will be chosen. Even if we did go with butter over guns, we are still an unhealthy society, not sure if any part of the budget (where ever it comes from) can continue to bear the cost of our chronic disease management system.
It was going to be guns, regardless of who won.

A single payer-system is not the magic bullet however. It would still require a major overhaul of the USDA to witch-hunt the grain and sugar lobbyists who foist that food pyramid nonsense on people. America needs a complete paradigm shift in the way we understand nutrition.

I'm sure it requires a lot of other things I'm not smart enough to think of as well. I'm not claiming to be a genius, but I know broken when I see it. It's broken now, it was broken then, and the new plan will break it even more.

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post #33 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 08:45 AM
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Re: Finally

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Originally Posted by turnera View Post
Obamacare wasn't an entitlement; it was keeping people from having to declare bankruptcy (only in America) any time they get a real illness. I know of nobody who got 'better off' with Obamacare, but I know many many people who, for the first time, were able to go to a doctor.
Many of those same people could have skipped the toys (eg snow mobiles, 4 wheelers, boats, campers, iphones, 70" tvs, etc. etc.) and invested in an medical insurance policy first.

The whole reason Obamacare was an outrage was because it forced people to take some damn personal accountability. The poor and elderly already got Medicare and Medicaid.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” - Maya Angelou
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post #34 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 09:14 AM
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Re: Finally

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Many of those same people could have skipped the toys (eg snow mobiles, 4 wheelers, boats, campers, iphones, 70" tvs, etc. etc.) and invested in an medical insurance policy first.



The whole reason Obamacare was an outrage was because it forced people to take some damn personal accountability. The poor and elderly already got Medicare and Medicaid.


And, then there is the accountability to taking care of oneself and avoid driving up demand in which the landscape has changed from a health care industry to a chronic disease management system. No one has addressed this elephant in the room.


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post #35 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 09:46 AM
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Re: Finally

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And, then there is the accountability to taking care of oneself and avoid driving up demand in which the landscape has changed from a health care industry to a chronic disease management system. No one has addressed this elephant in the room.
So what do you propose? Taxing soda? Many insurers and employers already provide incentives to join a gym.

They'd much rather pay $600 a year to subsidize a gym membership then $10,000 for your diabetes treatment.

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post #36 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 09:49 AM
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Re: Finally

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I understand. I said the wrong word, but my concerns apply to Medicare too if expanded.
Not sure what the reimbursement rates for Medicare are (I should ask my wife as she works on that stuff) but given the raw size of Medicare I don't think most providers can stop participating.
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post #37 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 09:54 AM
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Re: Finally

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So what do you propose? Taxing soda? Many insurers and employers already provide incentives to join a gym.



They'd much rather pay $600 a year to subsidize a gym membership then $10,000 for your diabetes treatment.


I'm not proposing anything. I just don't think it is honest to assume we can ever have affordable health care while we are just getting sicker as a nation and demand more test and more pharmaceuticals to keep us going.


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post #38 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 09:55 AM
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Re: Finally

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Not sure what the reimbursement rates for Medicare are (I should ask my wife as she works on that stuff) but given the raw size of Medicare I don't think most providers can stop participating.


Yep, the pyramid of age demographics is slowly but surely flipping over.


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post #39 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 09:59 AM
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Re: Finally

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Originally Posted by Fozzy View Post
It was going to be guns, regardless of who won.

A single payer-system is not the magic bullet however. It would still require a major overhaul of the USDA to witch-hunt the grain and sugar lobbyists who foist that food pyramid nonsense on people. America needs a complete paradigm shift in the way we understand nutrition.

I'm sure it requires a lot of other things I'm not smart enough to think of as well. I'm not claiming to be a genius, but I know broken when I see it. It's broken now, it was broken then, and the new plan will break it even more.
If anything, this statement is proof that we shouldn't want our government anywhere near healthcare. Because they're the ones forcing the food pyramid. Don't get me wrong, the lobbyists have convinced them, but the lobbyists can't force anything on us, the government does.

USDA / FDA for all of my life have recommended 300g of sugar per day in a "healthy" diet. It's required by government mandate to be printed on every food item you purchase (except fresh produce). There is no reason to think that granting them power to "root out" bad health ideas would end in anything but further disaster.

Do you hear the people sing / Lost in the valley of the night?
It is the music of a people / Who are climbing to the light.
For the wretched of the earth / There is a flame that never dies.
Even the darkest night will end / And the sun will rise...
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post #40 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 10:00 AM
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Re: Finally

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I'm not proposing anything. I just don't think it is honest to assume we can ever have affordable health care while we are just getting sicker as a nation and demand more test and more pharmaceuticals to keep us going.
I'm not sure why you think it's so dishonest. I have health insurance for me and my kids through my employer.

The employer pays a portion and I pay a portion. I afford it just fine and the coverage is good. I'm middle class.

If someone works a 1099 job and can't afford a medical insurance policy then find another job or career.


“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” - Maya Angelou
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post #41 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 10:03 AM
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Finally

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I'm not sure why you think it's so dishonest. I have health insurance for me and my kids through my employer.



The employer pays a portion and I pay a portion. I afford it just fine and the coverage is good. I'm middle class.


I'm speaking in the larger context as suggested by senators and representatives in the US Capitol. Everyone there wants to pass something to make health care affordable without looking at the situation in a more comprehensive manner.

You may be healthy and can afford your health care as we can in our family but we have a population that is 39.7% obese, 68% overweight, 11% DM 2, etc. according to 2014 CDC stats. And, cost is pretty big in health care concerns on just these two fronts alone.


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Last edited by Ikaika; 03-08-2017 at 10:07 AM.
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post #42 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 10:14 AM
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Re: Finally

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Originally Posted by Ikaika View Post
I'm speaking in the larger context as suggested by senators and representatives in the US Capitol. Everyone there wants to pass something to make health care affordable without looking at the situation in a more comprehensive manner.

You may be healthy and can afford your health care as we can in our family but we have a population that is 39.7% obese, 68% overweight, 11% DM 2, etc. according to 2014 CDC stats. And, cost is pretty big in health care concerns on just these two fronts alone.
We all know what the problem is. I agree costs are sky high.

No one can agree on a solution. You have two choices:

1) Personal accountability - If you can't afford it, lay down and rot.

2) Nanny state - You police behavior and swap out capitalism with socialism.

“When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.” - Maya Angelou
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post #43 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 10:14 AM
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Re: Finally

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ikaika View Post
I'm speaking in the larger context as suggested by senators and representatives in the US Capitol. Everyone there wants to pass something to make health care affordable without looking at the situation in a more comprehensive manner.

You may be healthy and can afford your health care as we can in our family but we have a population that is 39.7% obese, 68% overweight, 11% DM 2, etc. according to 2014 CDC stats. And, cost is pretty big in health care concerns on just these two fronts alone.


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Because telling the public they suck at self care is not a politically sound suggestion, no matter how badly they (we) need to hear it.

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #44 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 10:17 AM
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Re: Finally

To fix the health crisis start by reducing root causes of stress, obesity, and unhealthy foods.

I've spent a couple months working in Germany at our subsidiary there. At 5 pm the place is empty, everyone shows up at 9, 1 hour lunch...

Then at 5 everyone goes out hiking, cycling... Saturday is shopping and Sunday is family time.

There's one aisle of processed foods in a supermarket.

People eat like horses and still are not overweight.

Here...
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post #45 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-08-2017, 10:30 AM
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Re: Finally

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Because telling the public they suck at self care is not a politically sound suggestion, no matter how badly they (we) need to hear it.


I thought we were in the era of post PC talk?


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