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post #1 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 12:23 PM Thread Starter
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Finally

After almost 8 years of non-stop whining, crying and throwing tantrums, after over 60 votes to repeal ACA (aka Obamacare fka RomneyCare) the GOP announced their much ballyhooed replacement. Strangely enough the "conservatives" have yet to comment. So what say you?


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post #2 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 01:37 PM
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Re: Finally

They would be foolish to accept this offer. Almost as Foolish as President Obama was to sign the last one. He should have waited and the current leaders should wait until they get the bill they want.
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post #3 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 01:50 PM
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Re: Finally

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They would be foolish to accept this offer. Almost as Foolish as President Obama was to sign the last one. He should have waited and the current leaders should wait until they get the bill they want.
Yup. Too much pressure from their base to get something passed quickly. ACA is awful but this is even worse. Sad.

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post #4 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 03:00 PM
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Re: Finally

The one law that was passed, has survived for decades, gets the best patient satisfaction and requires only a few legislative tweaks along with some budgetary reconciliation is Medicare. Medicare for All legal citizens from birth to grave on basic health care needs, preventative medicine, some level of catastrophic care. Anything beyond this one can go onto the open market and shop for supplementary insurance. This would fulfill a promise made by President Trump, "Insurance for everyone".
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post #5 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 03:34 PM
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Re: Finally

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Originally Posted by Ynot View Post
After almost 8 years of non-stop whining, crying and throwing tantrums, after over 60 votes to repeal ACA (aka Obamacare fka RomneyCare) the GOP announced their much ballyhooed replacement. Strangely enough the "conservatives" have yet to comment. So what say you?
I have not researched it yet, but from what I hear of conservative pundits on TV, it's just Obamacare with some wording switched around. Sigh.

The thing is - we're effing screwed, because once people perceive that they're getting an entitlement, you simply cannot take it away. Nevermind the fact that independent contractors like myself were lied to and had their excellent, low cost policies outlawed, then thrown over a barrel and screwed anally with no lube by Obamacare, the very first person who says "I lost coverage because of Trumpcare!" under a Republican let decision and the media will be on it 24/7 until the Republican's politicians cave and go back to the crumbling, economy crippling Obamacare. They will destroy Republicans if they truly repeal Obamacare.

The republican politicians know this. It doesn't matter if the purist conservative voters are right and repeal is best. You simply cannot take away an entitlement once Americans "feel" it's free, the fact that it's actually very expensive is irrelevant.

Hopefully the republicans will come up with something better than Obamacare where costs can come back down but I really think it's too late and we are screwed. Americans now believe people are entitled to health insurance at any point in time even if they wait until they are old and ill to apply for it. As long as we are going to force insurance companies to cover people regardless of pre-existing conditions and regardless of their history with maintaining coverage, I can't imagine how prices can get under control. Also, how can we take away the medicare expansion? Where will the money for that come from in the future? We're F*cked, IMO.

ONE GOOD THING - I hear that they're taking away the stupid "mandatory" coverage for things like pregnancy and other conditions that not everyone needs, so hopefully catastrophic health care policies can make a comeback. That might bring prices down for some of us.
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post #6 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 03:36 PM
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Re: Finally

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So what say you?
I say Obama was a terrible president and progressives are fools.

When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time. - Maya Angelou
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post #7 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 03:37 PM
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Re: Finally

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The one law that was passed, has survived for decades, gets the best patient satisfaction and requires only a few legislative tweaks along with some budgetary reconciliation is Medicare. Medicare for All legal citizens from birth to grave on basic health care needs, preventative medicine, some level of catastrophic care. Anything beyond this one can go onto the open market and shop for supplementary insurance. This would fulfill a promise made by President Trump, "Insurance for everyone".
This is an interesting idea. But what about the problem with Drs. not wanting to take medicaid patients because they payout doesn't cover their costs? I know people on medicaid and they have a lot of trouble getting in to see a Dr. So yes, they have "coverage" but it doesn't cover a lot of things and isn't timely. Though I guess it would let us say "look, there is a safety net for everyone and if you want something more, go buy it."
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post #8 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 05:47 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Finally

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I say Obama was a terrible president and progressives are fools.
So you agree that "conservatives" are fools? Obama was just using the same playbook that GW bequeathed to him. I don't agree with much of what he did, but much of what he did was GW lite.

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post #9 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 06:17 PM
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Re: Finally

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This is an interesting idea. But what about the problem with Drs. not wanting to take medicaid patients because they payout doesn't cover their costs? I know people on medicaid and they have a lot of trouble getting in to see a Dr. So yes, they have "coverage" but it doesn't cover a lot of things and isn't timely. Though I guess it would let us say "look, there is a safety net for everyone and if you want something more, go buy it."
The more I think about it, the more I believe that there are really only two options--either go completely market based or go to the single payer system. This business of picking and choosing from each system ends up with a stupid mess.

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post #10 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 06:19 PM
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Re: Finally

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This is an interesting idea. But what about the problem with Drs. not wanting to take medicaid patients because they payout doesn't cover their costs? I know people on medicaid and they have a lot of trouble getting in to see a Dr. So yes, they have "coverage" but it doesn't cover a lot of things and isn't timely. Though I guess it would let us say "look, there is a safety net for everyone and if you want something more, go buy it."
If it is the only thing in town along with supplementary insurance then I say, let them turn it down and take only cash patients. BTW, I said Medicare for All (which is run by the federal government) not Medicaid (which is run by states).

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post #11 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 06:20 PM
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Re: Finally

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The more I think about it, the more I believe that there are really only two options--either go completely market based or go to the single payer system. This business of picking and choosing from each system ends up with a stupid mess.
Which is Medicare for all and one way to control cost.
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post #12 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 06:24 PM
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Re: Finally

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Which is Medicare for all and one way to control cost.
You obviously don't know anything about the waste, overpayments and corruption that dominates the Medicare system and threatens to bankrupt our country if the ever exponentially increasing costs of such mismanaged programs continue to skyrocket as they have been for many years.
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post #13 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 06:33 PM
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Re: Finally

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You obviously don't know anything about the waste, overpayments and corruption that dominates the Medicare system and threatens to bankrupt our country if the ever exponentially increasing costs of such mismanaged programs continue to skyrocket as they have been for many years.
The way it was restructured under ACA, it is a system that was to eliminate fee for service which is a system of over payments without results (i.e., waste). However, the restructured Medicare is based on test and treatments that are structured on paying for successful outcomes. Of course some would say this is a form of death panels given that some treatments are really for untreatable conditions. And as such on average 80% of most of Medicare payouts typically go toward the last six months of the patients life... more waste?

We have to be realistic. Then we also have to look at our society and realized that we no longer have a health care system but a disease management system (we are a chronically sick nation). So sure, Medicare for all could bankrupt the nation. However, if a mandate and medicaid expansion is removed, we simply allow hospitals to take on the burden of this cost. How do they get reimbursed for the far more expensive ER care? Federal government, local government and insured patients and a higher cost of care to make up the difference. One way or another we will all pay the price. It is matter of where or how we manage the cost.
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post #14 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 07:16 PM
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Re: Finally

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The way it was restructured under ACA, it is a system that was to eliminate fee for service which is a system of over payments without results (i.e., waste). However, the restructured Medicare is based on test and treatments that are structured on paying for successful outcomes. Of course some would say this is a form of death panels given that some treatments are really for untreatable conditions. And as such on average 80% of most of Medicare payouts typically go toward the last six months of the patients life... more waste?

We have to be realistic. Then we also have to look at our society and realized that we no longer have a health care system but a disease management system (we are a chronically sick nation). So sure, Medicare for all could bankrupt the nation. However, if a mandate and medicaid expansion is removed, we simply allow hospitals to take on the burden of this cost. How do they get reimbursed for the far more expensive ER care? Federal government, local government and insured patients and a higher cost of care to make up the difference. One way or another we will all pay the price. It is matter of where or how we manage the cost.

It doesn't have to bankrupt us. I'm not even convinced it has to require exorbitant taxes, provided we make some tough choices between guns or butter.

Darling it's better down where it's wetter, take it from me! --- Sebastian
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post #15 of 60 (permalink) Old 03-07-2017, 07:46 PM
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Re: Finally

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They would be foolish to accept this offer. Almost as Foolish as President Obama was to sign the last one. He should have waited and the current leaders should wait until they get the bill they want.
Medicare for everyone 😁

What bothers me is that if the taxes that funded ACA are gone, how's Trump paying for the tax credits?
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