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post #136 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 10:55 AM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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Originally Posted by Kivlor View Post
This disagreement right here is a good example of why A) Sola Scriptura and B) Every man his own priest are terrible concepts in practice. The idea that anyone can pick up a bible and understand it in its entirety, without knowing any context relevant to its creation is farcical. The Catholics win again.

There are many things that God didn't mention in scripture that exist in reality. He didn't see fit to mention them because Scripture was not intended to explain everything in existence in its entirety, but to explain certain, specific things and more importantly to make God's will known to Man.

Scripture says nothing about the existence of cells, but yet I've seen them. It also doesn't deny them. Scripture says nothing of gravity, and yet I experience it every day. And it doesn't deny gravity either. Maybe there is life out there. Maybe not. The existence of said life is not particularly relevant to Scripture.

A personal God, existing outside of Time and being all powerful, having created all things, may have created life on one or a million planets and it would change nothing about His Word.
What we believe must always line up with Gods word the bible and not what one fallible man or a few fallible men say.

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post #137 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 11:01 AM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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I can agree with this, to a certain point. After all, the Bible does say this:

Acts 8:
[30] And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
[31] And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

However, it also says this, which tells me I can read and learn myself.

2 Timothy 3
[16] All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
[17] That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I am also fairly certain the thief on the cross did not go directly from Bible study that morning to being crucified next to Christ, and then immediately after death to paradise.

Luke 23:
[39] And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
[40] But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
[41] And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
[42] And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.
[43] And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise.


God can give great light in the darkest of circumstance, even to someone who has never read the bible. John the Baptist leapt for joy in his mothers womb.
Luke 1:
[44] For, lo, as soon as the voice of thy salutation sounded in mine ears, the babe leaped in my womb for joy.

No bibles and no priest in a mothers womb.

Having said this, I believe the correct method is to be taught, but also discern the truth yourself, for how will we know if our teacher is a false teacher unless we search ourselves.
Yes agreed, if we dont compare what men say to what Gods says we can never discern which faiths/sects/teachers are false and which aren't.
If anything contradicts what Gods word says or has been added to Gods word then we can reject it.
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post #138 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 11:11 AM
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Re: God: Summing it up

God seems to have left the building - if he was ever here. So, he's not weighing in on any issues, and if the Bible or other teachings are his word, he did a damned poor job of ensuring it would have clarity and consistency across time and culture. Surely an all-knowing God could have done better to foresee and address these issues, versus the ambiguity and contradictions that exist. That he did not strongly indicates that these works are not God's authorship, but man's, raising doubt that such a being even exists.

Love is an ideal thing; marriage is a real thing; a confusion of the real with the ideal never goes unpunished. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

CELIBACY IS NOT HEREDITARY.
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post #139 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 11:15 AM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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God seems to have left the building - if he was ever here. So, he's not weighing in on any issues, and if the Bible or other teachings are his word, he did a damned poor job of ensuring it would have clarity and consistency across time and culture. Surely an all-knowing God could have done better to foresee and address these issues, versus the ambiguity and contradictions that exist. That he did not strongly indicates that these works are not God's authorship, but man's, raising doubt that such a being even exists.
Please give us an example as to how God has "left the building."

I am not trying to be antagonistic.
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post #140 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 11:23 AM
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Re: God: Summing it up

No, God is very much still around and His word is still spot on.
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post #141 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 11:29 AM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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Please give us an example as to how God has "left the building."

I am not trying to be antagonistic.
We don't see any evidence that God is engaged and communicating with people. Sure, lots of people claim that God speaks to them in some way, but there is no independent confirmation of this.

I also don't mean to be antagonistic, but I see no evidence, no proof for the existence of God, no one has ever produced such evidence, and God isn't showing himself to the world as a whole - so I am confident that God does not exist.

Love is an ideal thing; marriage is a real thing; a confusion of the real with the ideal never goes unpunished. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

CELIBACY IS NOT HEREDITARY.
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post #142 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 11:30 AM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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Please give us an example as to how God has "left the building."



Not trying to be antagonistic.


I'm not so sure god has left the building, as long as folks believe, he is still there. As with anyone post physical death once they are forgotten or their accomplishments are forgotten, they have left the building. So like god, there are many historical figures who have yet to leave the building.

The concern for most believers should rest among millennials (less than 50% are believers). Pew research shows this new generation is less religious than the previous as is the GenX less than baby boomers as boomers are less than the silent generation. We are a generation away from only 1/3rd away from those that believe.

According to an article (I will try to find it) the two entities that are more likely to close their doors due to financial woes, small Christian churches and small private colleges.


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post #143 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 11:50 AM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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We don't see any evidence that God is engaged and communicating with people. Sure, lots of people claim that God speaks to them in some way, but there is no independent confirmation of this.

I also don't mean to be antagonistic, but I see no evidence, no proof for the existence of God, no one has ever produced such evidence, and God isn't showing himself to the world as a whole - so I am confident that God does not exist.
God does not show himself the way MAN wants Him to. That I can agree with.

However, God does not ask for mans opinion or permission or guidance. He does not need it.
You might say God runs His show the way HE wants to run it.

If you had driven by me the other day in the street with a gun shooting a possum, at first glance you might have thought I was a dangerous, heartless deviant.
However, because you don't have all the information you would not know that I had called the fire department THE DAY BEFORE telling them that an injured possum was slowly dying in the road. They did nothing. The next day, it's STILL alive, so it was correct for me to finally put it out of it's misery.

God has seen fit to only give us the information in the Bible. According to God, it is sufficient. Same with His creation. According to God, the creation "CLEARLY" shows His existence. You disagree. That's fine, because I am just a messenger. You don't have to convince me. I am no mans judge.

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post #144 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 12:00 PM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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I'm not so sure god has left the building, as long as folks believe, he is still there. As with anyone post physical death once they are forgotten or their accomplishments are forgotten, they have left the building. So like god, there are many historical figures who have yet to leave the building.

The concern for most believers should rest among millennials (less than 50% are believers). Pew research shows this new generation is less religious than the previous as is the GenX less than baby boomers as boomers are less than the silent generation. We are a generation away from only 1/3rd away from those that believe.

According to an article (I will try to find it) the two entities that are more likely to close their doors due to financial woes, small Christian churches and small private colleges.


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Even when we think all is lost, it is not. God has his people and always will.

Romans 11:
[3] Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
[4] But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
[5] Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

The Jewish leaders had armed guards at the tomb of Jesus Christ because Christ had said He would rise again. They wanted to make certain no man would take His body and claim He raised Himself from the dead. Yet, here we are talking about it 2,000 years later.
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post #145 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 12:54 PM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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1) The need for blood to atone for sin.
Because:

The wages of sin (what you have earned) is death.
Romans 6:
[23] For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

God told Adam if he took the forbidden fruit death would be the consequence. So in order for justice to be fulfilled, it was then necessary for one to die to redeem fallen sinners.

This is depicted in the offering of the Passover lamb in the Old Testament and declared here in the new testament.

Hebrews 9:
[22] And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Jesus Christ ended all this with the giving of HIS OWN blood, once and for all time.

Hebrew 9:
[13] For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
[14] How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

[28] So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

Gross and revolting you say? Yes, it is. Death IS revolting. Blood gives you life, take it away and you die. Even with todays "justice", in some countries, the penalty for murder is ones own death, essentially giving your own blood as payment for your crime. Man can clean it up a bit by calling it "lethal injection" and the like. The end result is the same and just as repulsive.


Last edited by UMP; 03-16-2017 at 01:10 PM.
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post #146 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 01:13 PM
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God: Summing it up

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Even when we think all is lost, it is not. God has his people and always will.



Romans 11:

[3] Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

[4] But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

[5] Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.



The Jewish leaders had armed guards at the tomb of Jesus Christ because Christ had said He would rise again. They wanted to make certain no man would take His body and claim He raised Himself from the dead. Yet, here we are talking about it 2,000 years later.


And all these stories are kept alive as long as believers fill the pews. Those pews are likely to see less butts with each generation. Unless of course the church employs a marketing scheme to target this next generation.


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post #147 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 01:27 PM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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We don't see any evidence that God is engaged and communicating with people. Sure, lots of people claim that God speaks to them in some way, but there is no independent confirmation of this.

I also don't mean to be antagonistic, but I see no evidence, no proof for the existence of God, no one has ever produced such evidence, and God isn't showing himself to the world as a whole - so I am confident that God does not exist.
Millions upon millions of people have that relationship with Him daily. On several occasions when my husband and I were praying about something, God separately told us the same thing and gave us the same answer on the same day. Its amazing. I also know several people who were instantly miraculously healed after prayer. For those who seek Him and want to know Him, He makes Himself known.
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post #148 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 01:29 PM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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And all these stories are kept alive as long as believers fill the pews. Those pews are likely to see less butts with each generation. Unless of course the church employs a marketing scheme to target this next generation.


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We are fortunate in our church to have many young people who are strong Christians. Our children are as well, as are many of their friends.
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post #149 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 01:29 PM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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And all these stories are kept alive as long as believers fill the pews. Those pews are likely to see less butts with each generation. Unless of course the church employs a marketing scheme to target this next generation.


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So says Ikaika.

As for myself, I worry not. God is able. Man can try to burn every Bible, raze every Church, banish every believer, even try to persuade our young children in elementary school and Universities. It matters not, God will ALWAYS have a remnant.

This is NOT just some silly debate. This is NOT a fight between flesh and blood. This is much bigger than we orgulous humans.

Ephesians 6:
[12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

I'll let you in on a little secret.

GOD IS VICTORIOUS

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post #150 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 01:32 PM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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So says Ikaika.



As for myself, I worry not. God is able. Man can try to burn every Bible, raze every Church, banish every believer, even try to persuade our young children in elementary school and Universities. It matters not, God will ALWAYS have a remnant.



This is NOT just some silly debate. This is NOT a fight between flesh and blood. This is much bigger than we orgulous humans.



Ephesians 6:

[12] For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.



I'll let you in on a little secret.



GOD IS VICTORIOUS





I'm not interested in burning bibles nor am I interested in seeing the demise of anyone's faith. However, the church would be wise to take these demographic trends seriously.


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