God: Summing it up - Page 21 - Talk About Marriage
Politics and Religion This is the place to discuss politics, morality, religion, and anything controversial.

User Tag List

 383Likes
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
post #301 of 706 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 11:05 PM
Member
 
Bibi1031's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: texas
Posts: 1,384
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maricha75 View Post
See, I don't believe you go straight to heaven or hell, either.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


But we ALL go to purgatory for sure! That is the place where you are given directions and rules to live in God's Kingdom. We leave our bodies and this Earth completely blind sided and ignorant of what to do or expect. Purgatory is where you will get prepared to see our Father and be able to understand the new rules and laws in this Kingdom/world/heaven. If we help others in their different journeys here on Earth, why wouldn't God help us make our journey into heaven more knowledgeable and quite pleasurable instead of feeling awkward and lost?

Purgatory is in Heaven just like Hell is in Heaven and the sole governing entity is God in this Kingdom. Satan does not rule Hell. The hell in Heaven is not for torturing souls, but to cleanse them and prepare them for seeing God. Sadly some souls may require more cleansing than others through the purification process that involves fire of course.


Oh, and I didn't get my info from the bible. Not the KJV, Catholic or any other, but I speak the truth!


Good things come to those who wait...greater things come to those who get off their a$$ and do anything to make it happen.
Bibi1031 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #302 of 706 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 11:22 PM
Member
 
lostmyreligion's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 239
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by UMP View Post
Surely you MUST be joking!

What do you consider "coping credibly" in this life?

I am a successful business owner, married to my wonderful wife of 25 years, having the best sex of my life at 55 years of age, with 3 beautiful children. Despite having a heart attack 8 years ago, with 7 cardioversions and 3 heart oblations, I am in excellent health, physically and mentally.

I have travelled the world, I have been a professional pilot, automobile dealership owner, real estate developer, competitive race car driver and teacher, and have gotten to a 3 handicap as a golfer.

I have attended the same Church for over 20 years, fed the homeless, visit the indigent, and do my best to treat others the way I want to be treated.

Save some speeding tickets, my government gives me an A+, so much so that I have passed all State and Federal checks in order to posses and carry a loaded concealed firearm, at my discretion.

If this is not "coping credibly" in ones life, (by the worlds standards), than I have no understanding of the English language whatsoever.
Good for you!

So as someone so successful in life, where does religion fit in? Are you prudently covering all bases with an afterlife insurance plan?

I'd honestly like to understand this. Because just on a personal level I've lost a crapload of friends and family and have yet to see proof of payout.

"If you can keep your head while all those about you are losing theirs, then perhaps you have misunderstood the situation." - Daniel Keys Moran - from The Long Run

You don't really own anything you can't hold onto at a dead run... -Anonymous-
lostmyreligion is offline  
post #303 of 706 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 03:35 AM
Member
 
inmyprime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London
Posts: 507
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega View Post
Well, there are other passages in the Catholic Bible shared with KJV and others that I could quote for you. Guess it's how one interprets the passages, though.

Near death experiences (regarding atheists and others), journals written by 'mystics', visionaries who are non-denominational also seem to repeat a similar theme regarding heaven, hell and purgatory.

Personally, it makes sense to me, if there IS Purgatory. Kind of a guarantee that you'll go to heaven, but not without paying SOME kind of 'penalty' first.

Sort of like the difference between going to prison "without parole" and going to jail. If you're in jail, you've probably committed some kind of crime, but no one serious enough to warrant a life sentence.

Are you supposed to go (wherever it is you go after you die) as a young person or the age as you die? Or as a child or some other unspecified age? And if children or babies die, do they leave their bodies as adult people or stay children?

From brain damaged people, we know how much our whole personality is influenced by various parts in our brain. An elderly person with Alzheimers (in late stages) will exhibit almost no traces of their actual personality anymore (one will have a feeling the person has 'gone' a long time ago). We know that all there is to our essence is in our brain.
That all the feelings we have, are chemical reactions and can be replicated with medication/hormones.
How does one reconcile reality with the interpretations of the texts? I mean, come on...
Before agreeing/disagreeing on the detail, why not step back and look at the whole thing in a little more analytical manner.
inmyprime is online now  
 
post #304 of 706 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 04:46 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,502
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
I see evidence of Gods amazing creation all around me.I see so many whose lives have been changed and turned around by Jesus Christ. Also healings and restoration. You could just walk into my church and speak to anyone and you will find out the amazing things that God has done in their lives. You can easily research the countless stories on line of those who have had their lives turned around, criminals who have turned their back on crime to follow Jesus Christ. Muslims who have seen visions of Jesus and converted, and many also healed. A friend of mine used to be a hindu, she is now following Jesus Christ. SO many similar accounts, if you REALLY want to know.
Anecdotal evidence is not proof.
Personal is offline  
post #305 of 706 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 04:48 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,502
Re: God: Summing it up

...

Last edited by Personal; 03-21-2017 at 06:10 AM.
Personal is offline  
post #306 of 706 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 07:36 AM
UMP
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,198
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by uhtred View Post
Using the bible to defend the bible's authenticity doesn't work. If the bible were fabricated, it would still claim to be true.

Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them: History has shown all sorts of evil done by the church in the name of god. Doesn't this apply?
YES, it does.

Not everyone that says he is a Christian, is.

Matthew 7:
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Interestingly enough, your question is answered by the next verse in the Bible that I originally quoted to you in your previous question.
UMP is offline  
post #307 of 706 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 07:42 AM Thread Starter
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: California
Posts: 2,465
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
I see evidence of Gods amazing creation all around me.I see so many whose lives have been changed and turned around by Jesus Christ. Also healings and restoration. You could just walk into my church and speak to anyone and you will find out the amazing things that God has done in their lives. You can easily research the countless stories on line of those who have had their lives turned around, criminals who have turned their back on crime to follow Jesus Christ. Muslims who have seen visions of Jesus and converted, and many also healed. A friend of mine used to be a hindu, she is now following Jesus Christ. SO many similar accounts, if you REALLY want to know.
The friends who encouraged me to go back to Mass were Muslim. I am grateful to them.
Mr The Other is offline  
post #308 of 706 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 07:44 AM
UMP
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,198
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by lostmyreligion View Post
Good for you!

So as someone so successful in life, where does religion fit in? Are you prudently covering all bases with an afterlife insurance plan?

I'd honestly like to understand this. Because just on a personal level I've lost a crapload of friends and family and have yet to see proof of payout.
Not quite sure I understand your question, perhaps sarcasm?

As for me, I deserve nothing that I have. I am what I am by the grace of God.
My every breath is a gift from God.

Last edited by UMP; 03-21-2017 at 08:04 AM.
UMP is offline  
post #309 of 706 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 08:02 AM
UMP
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,198
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexm View Post
I say "10 Commandments" as the generalization of basic human rules - don't kill, don't steal, don't lie, don't cheat, be good to one another, etc. I apologize for that. It's like saying "Kleenex" for all brands of tissues... lol. I know full well the 10 Commandments are about honouring God, and not taking the Lord's name in vain, etc. As well as honour your parents, don't kill, and don't commit adultery (apt for this site!).

Simply put, I mean that if I, or you, or anybody else, tries to be a good person, has a good heart, is honest, etc. isn't that good enough? (rhetorical question!). If there is a God, which I don't know if there is - nobody does, they only believe there is a God, or has faith that there is a God - then he/she certainly doesn't require us to worship him/her. Just honour him/her by living a good life and ensuring that those around us do as well.

To me, that's the whole point of religion. Just be good people, darn it! Surely those that spend their lives being awesome people won't be turned away at the gates simply because they didn't attend church, spread the word, or didn't believe there was a God, or were unsure. Any more than the millions of religious folks who commit adultery, yet are 'saved' or 'forgiven' by Jesus or Allah, or whomever. Heck, religious people get tattoos of Jesus, Mary, the cross, etc. - it's one of the 10 Commandments to not do this.
That is a very honest question that deserves a good answer. I'm a little busy at work today. I've been posting on here a little more than I should. Things are getting a little disorganized on my desk.

Anyway, as soon as I am able, God willing, I will do my best to answer you.
UMP is offline  
post #310 of 706 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 08:19 AM
Member
 
Kivlor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Rural Midwest
Posts: 2,682
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by lostmyreligion View Post
If religion is just abstract thought then why is it so many live their lives as though it were concrete reality?

And not to say that it's not a fun thought exercise. It's just that an atheist lives simply accepting that this is all that there is. And that it's more than we can possibly know in the short span of time we have. Energy that might otherwise have gone into dogmatically following religious dictate is instead focused on dealing with what's in front of us, here and now. In this life.
You know the reason I don't like having philosophical and theological discussions with atheists? The fact that they're disingenuous, and cannot argue coherent points. You take what I said, and twist it into something else, and, like Don Quixote you are off charging at the dragons in your imagination that you've made out of the windmills I've erected.


Do you hear the people sing / Lost in the valley of the night?
It is the music of a people / Who are climbing to the light.
For the wretched of the earth / There is a flame that never dies.
Even the darkest night will end / And the sun will rise...
Kivlor is offline  
post #311 of 706 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 08:28 AM
Member
 
inmyprime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London
Posts: 507
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexm View Post
My personal belief, which does not fall into Mr. T's 3 basic stances is this:

There probably is no "God", or higher being, or super power, yet I do not deny his/her existence because there is no proof. I do not think that people who believe in God/a god are silly for doing so, and I will never argue a stance other than "It's possible, but it's not very likely."

That said, I am not an agnostic. I don't live my life the way I do "just in case there's a God". I try to live my life the way we all should, the way that shouldn't really require a book. The 10 commandments are basic things that we teach our children (I hope).

The way I see it, if there IS a God, he/she is not looking for people to worship him/her - only that they live their lives in the manner that ALL people should live their lives anyway. Nor are they particularly concerned about what religion you follow, or whether you believe in them or not. They just want people to be good citizens of this earth and not be asshats.

I'm reasonably certain that when I die, if I find out there IS a God, I'll be no worse for wear. Standing at the Pearly Gates, I won't be able to deny or question it! If I've lived my life trying to be the best human being I can be, isn't that the entire point?
It would be, to me. But it seems that the scripture specifically prohibits people like us ending up in heaven (if we don't embrace Jesus) and that we are doomed for eternity whether we do good or not. Your dog (or my cat), should be fine though.

Rick Warren: Dogs go to heaven, maybe not you

"People miss heaven because of their rebellion against God's offer of love, by rejecting Jesus. But dogs, which have no ability to sin nor moral conscience, do not have an ability to reject Jesus."

Maybe I am getting too hung up on technicalities, but making plans on where to spend eternity, seems like an important consideration.

I think a more important question is: can one be a good person and have a strong moral compass without the promise of heaven in the afterlife? It seems it's possible:

10 Myths Many Religious People Hold About Atheists, Debunked | Alternet

6) Atheists don’t have a moral code. Atheist are routinely asked how people will know not to rape and murder without religion telling them not to do it, especially a religion that backs up the orders with threats of hell. Believers, listen to me carefully when I say this: When you use this argument, you terrify atheists. We hear you saying that the only thing standing between you and Ted Bundy is a flimsy belief in a supernatural being made up by pre-literate people trying to figure out where the rain came from. This is not very reassuring if you’re trying to argue from a position of moral superiority.

If anything, atheism correlates to better behavior on average. Atheists are under-represented in prison, for instance, and more religious nations have higher rates of violent crime, teen pregnancy, early adult mortality and even abortion. But setting the numbers aside, we can see that even religious people generally believe that morality exists outside of religion. After all, most religious people condemn people who commit acts of evil in the name of religion. If religiosity were the measure of morality, terrorists who murder in the name of God would be more moral than atheists who pay their taxes and give to charity. You’ll find few believers agreeing that a murderous terrorist for God is a better person than a nonviolent atheist, showing that believers grasp that morality doesn’t come from religion, but that we can measure religious claims against our pre-existing understanding of morality.


I don't think I would classify myself as an atheist. Nor as agnostic. I find it hard to reconcile the texts with reality ("my" version of reality) so tend to swing more in the "I don't believe in the kind of god portrayed in the texts" camp but am also entirely open to embracing and examining any evidence or clue at all, that I might be wrong.
I think the word "atheist" carries a lot of negative baggage. It literally means 'without belief'. It doesn't mean: believing that there is NO god. Just like being a non-chess player or non-astrologist. I wouldn't deny that people do play chess if I saw them doing so (which I did).
inmyprime is online now  
post #312 of 706 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 09:24 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,088
Re: God: Summing it up

God, for His reasons allows evil to exist and allows people to commit terrible crimes in His name.

How can we know that people did not falsely re-write the bible in His name. The bible claims to be the word of god, but how can we know that it isn't a lie created by the same sort of evil men who ran the crusades and the inquisition?


Quote:
Originally Posted by UMP View Post
YES, it does.

Not everyone that says he is a Christian, is.

Matthew 7:
[21] Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
[22] Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
[23] And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Interestingly enough, your question is answered by the next verse in the Bible that I originally quoted to you in your previous question.
uhtred is offline  
post #313 of 706 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 09:43 AM
UMP
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,198
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by uhtred View Post
God, for His reasons allows evil to exist and allows people to commit terrible crimes in His name.

How can we know that people did not falsely re-write the bible in His name. The bible claims to be the word of god, but how can we know that it isn't a lie created by the same sort of evil men who ran the crusades and the inquisition?
When Jesus Christ cast out a devil from a man that was also deaf and blind. This is what the Pharisees said:

Matthew 12:
24] But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
[25] And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
[26] And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

The Bible is not divided against itself. It's purpose is singular, to bring Glory to God. Ultimately, you must decide yourself.

Regarding evil. If evil did not ever exist, how could God defeat what has never existed?
Adam and Eve ate of the TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL. We wanted to know good AND evil. (while knowing the penalty ahead of time) With knowledge comes responsibility and accountability. Therefore, if we sin, the penalty is death. We all die because we have all sinned.

Last edited by UMP; 03-21-2017 at 09:49 AM.
UMP is offline  
post #314 of 706 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 09:46 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,584
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by inmyprime View Post
I think a more important question is: can one be a good person and have a strong moral compass without the promise of heaven in the afterlife? It seems it's possible:
What is a "good" person?

It seems that many people believe that they're "good" people simply because they haven't robbed a bank or killed anyone.

Today.

It's their uncontrolled human pride that allows them to think of themselves as "good". They WANT to believe they are "good", so they ARE "good".

And yet, they may not be as "good" as they think they are, or want to believe they are. The same man who beats his wife may go to church on Sunday and help out at a soup kitchen on Wednesday evenings. Is he a "good" person? In HIS mind, he is.

And what about the woman who never robbed a bank but who regularly cheats (just a "little") on her income taxes? Is she a "good" person?

We are not as "good" as we think we are. The only way we can see that is through humility, which, a number of people don't wish to have.

It's not about how "good" we are in OUR eyes; it's how "good" we are in GOD'S eyes that matters.

Last edited by Vega; 03-21-2017 at 10:05 AM.
Vega is online now  
post #315 of 706 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 09:55 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,088
Re: God: Summing it up

The question is why should we trust the bible. God allows men to do evil things. So how can we be sure that lying when writing the bible was not one of those evil things?




Quote:
Originally Posted by UMP View Post
When Jesus Christ cast out a devil from a man that was also deaf and blind. This is what the Pharisees said:

Matthew 12:
24] But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
[25] And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
[26] And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?

The Bible is not divided against itself. It's purpose is singular, to bring Glory to God. Ultimately, you must decide yourself.

Regarding evil. If evil did not ever exist, how could God defeat what has never existed?
Adam and Eve ate of the TREE OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL. We wanted to know good AND evil. (while knowing the penalty ahead of time) With knowledge comes responsibility and accountability. Therefore, if we sin, the penalty is death. We all die because we have all sinned.
uhtred is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on Talk About Marriage, you must first register. Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Important! Your username will be visible to the public next to anything you post and could show up in search engines like Google. If you are concerned about anonymity, PLEASE choose a username that will not be recognizable to anyone you know.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GOD UMP Politics and Religion 385 02-14-2017 02:55 PM
Is God everywhere? Personal Politics and Religion 59 02-07-2017 01:06 PM
Separated and Waiting on husband or God? Corpuswife Relationships and Spirituality 25 02-04-2016 09:54 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome