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post #31 of 769 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 03:20 PM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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I think if you believe the bible (I don't) we are more directly related to Moses and his three sons. God wiped the earth clean with his great flood and chose Moses as the purist of humanity to start mankind over again. Or something like that.
Thst was Noah, not Moses. Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt.

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post #32 of 769 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 03:23 PM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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I do think that there is one intelligence that is our entire universe. It's what started the whole thing and what keeps it going.



I think that most religions are an attempt to make sense of this and to set some moral standards for human behavior based on the culture’s understanding of the bigger picture (the creator(s) of the world that they live in.)

That, I can sort of follow. I do think there certainly much more than what we can comprehend - there's no doubt. And that we are also part of some bigger picture.
But that's not the selling point of most religions or why people chose to believe in them.
I never felt there's a place where religious teachings can fit in comfortably. If you examine the writings in the bible and other religious books, it's fairly obvious that there's as much stuff that makes no sense whatsoever as there's stuff that vaguely does make sense (and how we humans intuitively feel about things anyway. There's an unintentional presumption that people who have never read the texts may lack a moral compass: research shows this is not true). One does then wonder how relevant those texts actually are to anything that we learned so far, anything we feel or anything we still have to discover? To me, I view the writing as a historical document mostly relevant to the times in which they were written.
If it's all supposed to be highly allegorical and requires so much deciphering, after which people still don't seem to agree on the meaning anyway, And it keeps changing over time, I do question the need for it at all.
There are still many who do take these texts literally (or the way they want it to take) and it does represent a number of problems because of it...

But yes, I do often feel this very strong feeling of One-ness every now and again (just now, waiting for the Northern lights to appear for example) but I don't immediately equate it to a god. Certainly not the kind described in the bible.
If I was pressed to pick something maybe it would be Buddhism. But it's more a philosophy rather than a religion.
And certainly doesn't come with all the "bells and whistles" (life after death etc, well, the way it is portrayed in the monotheistic religions anyway).


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Last edited by EleGirl; 03-14-2017 at 03:37 PM. Reason: removed name of eye drops I need to get from my quote.
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post #33 of 769 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 03:36 PM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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So, Palestinians can gain a visa to the US with no problem?
I cannot find anything that talks about restrictions for Palestinians getting visas to the USA except for a few articles about people who were involved as radicals being denied.

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But, to be historically correct, Jesus looked more like a Palestinian.
And what did a Palestinian look like 2,000 years ago? We can only guess what Jesus liked like. But what does the looks of Jesus have to do with anything? As I said, people have always painted pictures of him to look like they do. The point is that Jesus is a universal figure.
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post #34 of 769 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 03:42 PM Thread Starter
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Re: God: Summing it up

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You left out the pagan faiths. They believe that the power of "gods" exist is many things, in different degrees.

I left out loads of faiths. However, the arguments on seem to be between the three groups I list.
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post #35 of 769 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 03:49 PM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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I agree that a religion that suppresses as do some current ones just as Christianity did back in medieval Europe, are examples of unacceptable beliefs.

As for me, the characteristics built around the natural physical and chemical. chaos along genetic randomness helps to explain things better than an intelligent being.
To me, if God exist, he is not a being or creature in the sense that we humans talk about. The entire idea that there is some bearded guy is he sky is laughable.

I think that God is the force that is the physical, chemical, genetic randomness, etc. .... This has established the laws of the universe, of the nature of our planet and everything on it.

But what we see in religions is an attempt to explain the little tiny bit of what god is to man kind... and man kind is pretty immature and stupid compared to the force that has created everything.

We have nothing that can accurately see, much less describe the forces that created our universe and everything in it.
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post #36 of 769 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 03:57 PM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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To me, if God exist, he is not a being or creature in the sense that we humans talk about. The entire idea that there is some bearded guy is he sky is laughable.

I think that God is the force that is the physical, chemical, genetic randomness, etc. .... This has established the laws of the universe, of the nature of our planet and everything on it.

But what we see in religions is an attempt to explain the little tiny bit of what god is to man kind... and man kind is pretty immature and stupid compared to the force that has created everything.

We have nothing that can accurately see, much less describe the forces that created our universe and everything in it.
Now this is one post I can agree with!

If that was the universally accepted definition of God I would renounce my athiesm immediately.

But that won't happen any time soon. Maybe in another thousand years if immature and stupid "wooden boats that saved dinosaurs" mankind hasn't destroyed the planet by then.
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post #37 of 769 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 05:26 PM
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God: Summing it up

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I cannot find anything that talks about restrictions for Palestinians getting visas to the USA except for a few articles about people who were involved as radicals being denied.







And what did a Palestinian look like 2,000 years ago? We can only guess what Jesus liked like. But what does the looks of Jesus have to do with anything? As I said, people have always painted pictures of him to look like they do. The point is that Jesus is a universal figure.


Since the US does not recognize Palestine as an independent country, they would have to gain access the US embassy in Tel Aviv to get a travel visa here. Palestinians have limited access and travel within Israel. So, it may not be a travel ban per se, but very difficult at best, especially if they have any ties to Hamas (regardless of even if their role were more or less just that of association of logistics rather than militancy). Jesus was part of a more obscure sect within Judaism. I'm not suggesting they were militant, but sometimes perception is all that is needed to find someone unacceptable.

Anyway, 2,000 years is very short in biological terms. Very likely, a Palestinian 2,000 years ago looks pretty much like a Palestinian of 2017.


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post #38 of 769 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 05:28 PM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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To me, if God exist, he is not a being or creature in the sense that we humans talk about. The entire idea that there is some bearded guy is he sky is laughable.



I think that God is the force that is the physical, chemical, genetic randomness, etc. .... This has established the laws of the universe, of the nature of our planet and everything on it.



But what we see in religions is an attempt to explain the little tiny bit of what god is to man kind... and man kind is pretty immature and stupid compared to the force that has created everything.



We have nothing that can accurately see, much less describe the forces that created our universe and everything in it.


I will not argue with what folks want to believe or assume they are wrong. This is all fine with me, I just don't believe in a god of any form. All is chaos.


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post #39 of 769 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 06:04 PM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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Thst was Noah, not Moses. Moses led the Israelites out of Egypt.

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Duh on me! I knew that, honestly have been rereading the bible again and just went thru that part a week ago, not sure how I mixed that up. Thanks for correcting me.
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post #40 of 769 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 06:13 PM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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Duh on me! I knew that, honestly have been rereading the bible again and just went thru that part a week ago, not sure how I mixed that up. Thanks for correcting me.


The thing that always threw me off was the passage when Noah got tossed (drinking wine) and then he lay there in his nakedness. His son Ham witnessed it. I still don't get what the hell that was all about. I'm like was he, Noah "chocking his chicken"? What was the point to this scripture.


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post #41 of 769 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 06:18 PM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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The thing that always threw me off was the passage when Noah got tossed (drinking wine) and then he lay there in his nakedness. His son Ham witnessed it. I still don't get what the hell that was all about. I'm like was he, Noah "chocking his chicken"? What was the point to this scripture.
@Ikaika my son (or daughter), you hath now borne witness to the very birth of the human masturbatory experience!

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post #42 of 769 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 06:22 PM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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@Ikaika my son (or daughter), you hath now borne witness to the very birth of the human masturbatory experience!


So, the catholic priest lied to me when I was a youth about "whacking off". Damn, all those years wasted. If it was ok for Noah, it had to be ok for me.


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post #43 of 769 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 06:24 PM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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So, the catholic priest lied to me when I was a youth about "whacking off". Damn, all those years wasted. If it was ok for Noah, it had to be ok for me.
No you won't go blind, at least not completely. Just make sure you cover one eye while doing it.
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post #44 of 769 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 06:34 PM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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To me, if God exist, he is not a being or creature in the sense that we humans talk about. The entire idea that there is some bearded guy is he sky is laughable.

I think that God is the force that is the physical, chemical, genetic randomness, etc. .... This has established the laws of the universe, of the nature of our planet and everything on it.
Yep, I also always thought pretty much the same. Just never called it "God". I also think the words/definitions in our languages have a huge limitation describing this. Words like "God", "creation", "origin" etc and the whole concept of time creates a lot of confusion because people mean different things by them (and the words themselves may not be relevant describing the phenomena).
Anyway, I think the problem that atheists have with religions is more the fact that they feel that those texts are holding humanity back from making progress since, as you rightly say, they were written to be understood by certain civilisations, now largely irrelevant.

It's the same concept as art. We always strive describing something that words cannot but we instinctively feel it is there and attempting to find different ways to express It. Of course there is also a possibility that there is nothing there...But then again we end up with the definition problem of what's "nothing" and what's "something".

"Bearded guy" may sound laughable to many but when you press many religious people for details of what exactly they believe, you might be surprised...Starting with prayer: there is an assumption that he (why is it always a "he" anyway?) must be sitting somewhere, answering or rejecting requests (obviously not all think that way: but then those maybe wouldn't call it prayer but, say, meditation). Does he or does he not interfere/intervene in people's lives? I mean when you get to details, it all starts falling apart...But for people who take a more allegorical view of things, where does one draw the line? And is any of the stuff in the holy scriptures any more relevant than the 'truths' found in classical literature or masterpieces of art?
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post #45 of 769 (permalink) Old 03-14-2017, 06:39 PM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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I will not argue with what folks want to believe or assume they are wrong. This is all fine with me, I just don't believe in a god of any form. All is chaos.


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But the point is that what you call "chaos", some might call "god". So there may not be a contradiction.
I think I felt this way partially because I was getting sick of all the clashes over religious views/beliefs and desperately tried finding some sort of middle ground.
After a while I realised I was fooling myself. Literalism still exists in abundance.
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