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post #61 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 09:23 AM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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Originally Posted by EleGirl View Post
You left out the pagan faiths. They believe that the power of "gods" exist is many things, in different degrees.
People worship many gods. However, there is only one creator of heaven and earth, the God that gives you breath every day. The ONLY true and living God, the God of the Bible.

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post #62 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 10:09 AM
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Re: God: Summing it up

What happens if someone accidentally worships the wrong god? Do they definitely go to hell?


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post #63 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 10:11 AM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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Well, in my world - chaos, random probabilities and boundless space and time are the usual terms used to describe the world and universes. Order would appear too purposeful.

While earth is NOT closed system, the disorders of entropy and randomness of thermodynamics are overcome by the constant input of energy. So, unless one wants to worship the sun (which to me makes more sense than an invisible god) I would say outside of this we are the chance product of random mutations and viable only due to the bombardment of our ultimate energy source.

And thus our, planet was born out of a random chaotic release of energy (we can still see it expanding). We are a chance product of this ultimate randomness.


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Than riddle me this:

Monday I had a doctors appointment for my annual physical. Everything was fine except that my Dr. and wife have been pushing me to do a colonoscopy for years. I am 55 and they keep wanting me to do it. The prep work is what really turns me off. Anyway, I leave the doctors office and have no direction in MY own mind as to whether I will do this test. I would rather just let it go. However, I earnestly prayed to God to show me one way or the other and that I would do whatever He wanted me to do. I put it in Gods hands and forgot about it completely.

The next day (yesterday) I get this phone call on my cell. A number I do not recognize. I did not answer. They leave a message. It's a Doctor telling me that Dr. so and so is not available but that I should contact the office sooner rather than later to possibly schedule a surgery. I figure it's a wrong number but I need to call and clarify. (Remember I was just at the doctor the day before.) I call and the doctor answers immediately. I tell him my name and he apologizes, wrong number. I ask what kind of Dr. he is. In his Asian accent he replies, "Stomach and Intestinal."(Gastrointestinal Dr.) I reply, "I believe you are the answer to my prayer." I explain the colonoscopy and tell him, "Doesn't God work in mysterious ways?" He was dumbfounded.

I had no idea who he was and he had no idea who I was, yet it served a very specific and timely purpose, to me, specifically. Not only for my own purposes regarding my health but also my purpose on this thread today on the topic God and supposed "chaos."

God is at work.

Last edited by UMP; 03-15-2017 at 10:17 AM.
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post #64 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 10:13 AM
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Re: God: Summing it up

I never understood this: a serial killer on death row can repent his sins, ask for forgiveness and then enjoy eternity in heaven.
Then a perfectly decent person worshipping the 'wrong' kind of god or not worshipping anything at all is going to automatically spend eternity in hell. Bit unfair if you ask me.


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post #65 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 10:14 AM
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Re: God: Summing it up

You believe that, and that is fine. Billions of people believe different things. How can someone else know what to believe unless God has spoken to them personally? Why should I go to a church and not a Mosque or a temple to Athena?



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People worship many gods. However, there is only one creator of heaven and earth, the God that gives you breath every day. The ONLY true and living God, the God of the Bible.
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post #66 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 10:22 AM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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Than riddle me this:



Monday I had a doctors appointment for my annual physical. Everything was fine except that my Dr. and wife have been pushing me to do a colonoscopy for years. I am 55 and they keep wanting me to do it. The prep work is what really turns me off. Anyway, I leave the doctors office and have no direction in MY own mind as to whether I will do this test. I would rather just let it go. However, I earnestly prayed to God to show me one way or the other and that I would do whatever He wanted me to do. I completely put it in Gods hands and forgot about it completely.



The next day (yesterday) I get this phone call on my cell. A number I do not recognize. I did not answer. They leave a message. It's a Doctor telling me that Dr. so and so is not available but that I should contact the office sooner rather than later to possibly schedule a surgery. I figure it's a wrong number but I need to call and clarify. (Remember I was just at the doctor the day before.) I call and the doctor answers immediately. I tell him my name and he apologizes, wrong number. I ask what kind of Dr. he is. In his Asian accent he replies, "Stomach and Intestinal."(Gastrointestinal Dr.) I reply, "I believe you are the answer to my prayer." I explain the colonoscopy and tell him, "Doesn't God work in mysterious ways?" He was dumbfounded.



I had no idea who he was and he had no idea who I was, yet it served a very specific and timely purpose, to me, specifically. Not only for my own purposes regarding my health but also my purpose on this thread today on the topic God and supposed "chaos."



God is at work.


What happened to all the people who pray and still pick the wrong decision? Some don't live to tell the tale...
It is common to assign purpose to randomness (random, as far as the observer is concerned). Not only humans are guilty of this. Please watch this: https://youtu.be/8uPmeWiFTIw


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post #67 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 10:30 AM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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What happened to all the people who pray and still pick the wrong decision? Some don't live to tell the tale...
It is common to assign purpose to randomness (random, as far as the observer is concerned). Not only humans are guilty of this. Please watch this: https://youtu.be/8uPmeWiFTIw


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Last edited by UMP; 03-15-2017 at 10:36 AM.
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post #68 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 10:36 AM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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I never understood this: a serial killer on death row can repent his sins, ask for forgiveness and then enjoy eternity in heaven.
Then a perfectly decent person worshipping the 'wrong' kind of god or not worshipping anything at all is going to automatically spend eternity in hell. Bit unfair if you ask me.


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That is because you don't fully understand the concept of a perfect Holy God.
God cannot look upon sin. If a man lived a perfect life and sinned only once, he would be guilty before God. So much so that God had to give up His perfect sinless son as a perfect sacrifice, because it was the ONLY sacrifice that could satisfy God's perfect justice.

He could have just as easily and JUSTLY condemned the entire human race and save none. In fact, God could have punished Adam and Eve on the spot and ended it all there. Instead God chose to show His mercy and grace.
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post #69 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 10:45 AM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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What happens if someone accidentally worships the wrong god? Do they definitely go to hell?


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You are coming at this from the wrong direction. Remember, EVERYONE is guilty before God, everyone. There is NONE righteous, NO NOT ONE.

Romans 3:

[10] As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
[11] There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
[12] They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
[13] Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
[14] Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
[15] Their feet are swift to shed blood:
[16] Destruction and misery are in their ways:
[17] And the way of peace have they not known:
[18] There is no fear of God before their eyes.

Yet, here you are being given pearls. What will you do with them? In other words, many people do not even get the chance to be told what I am telling you now, today. You have been given light. Take hold of it. Read and make up your own mind.

There is ONLY one way.

John 14:
[6] Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
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post #70 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 10:52 AM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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Than riddle me this:



Monday I had a doctors appointment for my annual physical. Everything was fine except that my Dr. and wife have been pushing me to do a colonoscopy for years. I am 55 and they keep wanting me to do it. The prep work is what really turns me off. Anyway, I leave the doctors office and have no direction in MY own mind as to whether I will do this test. I would rather just let it go. However, I earnestly prayed to God to show me one way or the other and that I would do whatever He wanted me to do. I put it in Gods hands and forgot about it completely.



The next day (yesterday) I get this phone call on my cell. A number I do not recognize. I did not answer. They leave a message. It's a Doctor telling me that Dr. so and so is not available but that I should contact the office sooner rather than later to possibly schedule a surgery. I figure it's a wrong number but I need to call and clarify. (Remember I was just at the doctor the day before.) I call and the doctor answers immediately. I tell him my name and he apologizes, wrong number. I ask what kind of Dr. he is. In his Asian accent he replies, "Stomach and Intestinal."(Gastrointestinal Dr.) I reply, "I believe you are the answer to my prayer." I explain the colonoscopy and tell him, "Doesn't God work in mysterious ways?" He was dumbfounded.



I had no idea who he was and he had no idea who I was, yet it served a very specific and timely purpose, to me, specifically. Not only for my own purposes regarding my health but also my purpose on this thread today on the topic God and supposed "chaos."



God is at work.


My only answer is I hoped you did your colonoscopy as a preventive way to minimize your risk to the alternative. As far as a mystery, we all look at events with own bias.


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post #71 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 10:59 AM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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As far as a mystery, we all look at events with own bias.


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Yes, we do.
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post #72 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 11:02 AM
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God: Summing it up

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Yes, we do.


Well there you go with your riddle.


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post #73 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 11:14 AM Thread Starter
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Re: God: Summing it up

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But the point is that what you call "chaos", some might call "god". So there may not be a contradiction.
I think I felt this way partially because I was getting sick of all the clashes over religious views/beliefs and desperately tried finding some sort of middle ground.
After a while I realised I was fooling myself. Literalism still exists in abundance.
This is the point of the OP.

Some do not believe in God sitting on a big chair with a beard who sets rules (I do not). Others do not believe in a God that is reality and glimpsed through spirituality and love (though I do). Some believe in neither.

The literalists claim a monopoly on God, even though their belief in bearded God looks more like superstition and idolatory to me. Each to their own.
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post #74 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 11:19 AM
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Re: God: Summing it up

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People worship many gods. However, there is only one creator of heaven and earth, the God that gives you breath every day. The ONLY true and living God, the God of the Bible.
They're all wrong, as are you. I can say that as definitively, decisively, and arrogantly as you can about your belief.

Love is an ideal thing; marriage is a real thing; a confusion of the real with the ideal never goes unpunished. - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

CELIBACY IS NOT HEREDITARY.
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post #75 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 11:19 AM Thread Starter
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Re: God: Summing it up

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Than riddle me this:

Monday I had a doctors appointment for my annual physical. Everything was fine except that my Dr. and wife have been pushing me to do a colonoscopy for years. I am 55 and they keep wanting me to do it. The prep work is what really turns me off. Anyway, I leave the doctors office and have no direction in MY own mind as to whether I will do this test. I would rather just let it go. However, I earnestly prayed to God to show me one way or the other and that I would do whatever He wanted me to do. I put it in Gods hands and forgot about it completely.

The next day (yesterday) I get this phone call on my cell. A number I do not recognize. I did not answer. They leave a message. It's a Doctor telling me that Dr. so and so is not available but that I should contact the office sooner rather than later to possibly schedule a surgery. I figure it's a wrong number but I need to call and clarify. (Remember I was just at the doctor the day before.) I call and the doctor answers immediately. I tell him my name and he apologizes, wrong number. I ask what kind of Dr. he is. In his Asian accent he replies, "Stomach and Intestinal."(Gastrointestinal Dr.) I reply, "I believe you are the answer to my prayer." I explain the colonoscopy and tell him, "Doesn't God work in mysterious ways?" He was dumbfounded.

I had no idea who he was and he had no idea who I was, yet it served a very specific and timely purpose, to me, specifically. Not only for my own purposes regarding my health but also my purpose on this thread today on the topic God and supposed "chaos."

God is at work.
In contrast, I had two young sisters die at ages 2 and 3. Perhaps we did not pray humbly enough? We are Catholic and I hear that your God goes to the Evangelical Church?

God is in everything, reality is God. It is more sublime than a sky pixie.

Last edited by Mr The Other; 03-16-2017 at 04:50 PM.
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