God: Summing it up - Page 7 - Talk About Marriage
Politics and Religion This is the place to discuss politics, morality, religion, and anything controversial.

User Tag List

 419Likes
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
post #91 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 01:45 PM
Member
 
Maricha75's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 7,292
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyInColorado View Post
It all comes down to if the bible is true or untrue. People can debate it all day long. You can quote bible verses all day at me. But in the end, prove to me that God really wrote it through ordinary men and the content is accurate. You can't.

I grew up in a Christian home, graduated from a private Christian school. When I think for myself, it's very hard to believe. But it's also very hard to believe that this universe just created itself out of nothing. Or perhaps maybe it was just always there, there was no beginning. That is after all how God became. It's a crapshoot.

If they somehow discover life on another planet, can you imagine how the Christians will respond? It would making life really interesting!
How so? I actually believe there is life on other planets, and in other solar systems. I, too, grew up in a Christian household, though I did not attend a Christian school. But I have believed all along, as have the members of my church, that there are other beings out there, on other planets. So, do you think most Christians will respond negatively to this potential discovery?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


You can use the 2x4 without adding nails to it.
Maricha75 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 02:01 PM
UMP
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 2,279
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyInColorado View Post
It all comes down to if the bible is true or untrue. People can debate it all day long. You can quote bible verses all day at me. But in the end, prove to me that God really wrote it through ordinary men and the content is accurate. You can't.

I grew up in a Christian home, graduated from a private Christian school. When I think for myself, it's very hard to believe. But it's also very hard to believe that this universe just created itself out of nothing. Or perhaps maybe it was just always there, there was no beginning. That is after all how God became. It's a crapshoot.

If they somehow discover life on another planet, can you imagine how the Christians will respond? It would making life really interesting!
The Bible talks about God being our father, our dad.
Maybe you are a father.

Let us say you have two children and they want something from you.

Child #1 I want you to give me my inheritance now, while I can still enjoy it. I figure you're worth at least a million bucks and half of it is mine. I am 18. Give it to me now or I will make your life a mess. If you give it to me, I will be gone and you'll never hear from me again. I don't like your rules and frankly I don't like you. Give me an answer tomorrow by noon.

Child #2 Dad, I wanted to thank you for giving me a great childhood and giving me the opportunity to go to a good school. You have been very good to me and I am thankful. As you know, I am 18 and I have decided to go out on my own. I have a great idea that I will share with you about opening up a business. I need your help and I am willing to do whatever is necessary to be successful. I know you have more knowledge than I do and I want you to teach me along the way. I want you to be part of my life because frankly, I love you.

Which child will be accepted?

In other words, humble yourself and ask your father to show you the truth. The key words are HUMBLE YOURSELF before God. I cannot imagine a loving father turning his back on a child that humbly comes to him for help. God IS a loving father.

Luke 11:
[9] And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
[10] For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
[11] If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
[12] Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
[13] If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?
UMP is offline  
post #93 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 02:13 PM
Member
 
DustyDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Edging slowly closer to the frozen tundra
Posts: 464
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr The Other View Post
It seems there are three main options.
1) There is no God - Atheist
2) There is a God, who we can start to understand through spiritual humility - Abrahamic faith
3) There is a God. He sits on a cloud, started work on making the world on a Monday and wrote everything literally in a book (in American English, using old British English words) and He agrees with me that everyone else is wrong.
Now, let's all just get along.
I don't know of any Atheist who doesn't have a God...they may call it scientific inquiry, or common sense, or something else, but so far, all I've met believes that there is a "more correct" source of knowledge than all others.

Believing in a god as a separate entity from humankind is actually a minority belief - even Christianity didn't have it until the 12th century. Until that time, the bible was interpreted as poetic metaphor. In the Old Testament, God claims that humankind cannot behold them (the Old Testament uses both male and female words to refer to God, so I call God "them" to indicate this wholeness)...what is "behold"? If the rabbi I heard give a talk on that is correct, then the traditional belief is that "behold" is everything - our eyes cannot embrace their appearance, our minds cannot comprehend their vastness and on and on. God is transcendent - something that can not and never will be comprehended by human words and thinking.

This is completely consistent with all belief systems prior to the Old Testament, which ascribed "god" as being the sum total of everything - human, plant, animal, the winds, fire, the soil, the sun, the moon, the stars - a thing that we are a part of. We are not separate from God, we together ARE god...and thus, we are not against God...to "obey" God, is therefore to "obey" what it takes to keep this "whole thing" healthy and growing.

So, there are LOTS of other options, that do not include construing God as an entity of any kind whatsoever...but a concept to which some level of attempting to be of service is useful - to us and to others.

There are three kinds of business. Your business, my business and God's business. Whose business are you in? -Byron Katie
DustyDog is offline  
 
post #94 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 02:25 PM
Member
 
inmyprime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London
Posts: 1,294
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyInColorado View Post
It all comes down to if the bible is true or untrue. People can debate it all day long. You can quote bible verses all day at me. But in the end, prove to me that God really wrote it through ordinary men and the content is accurate. You can't.

I grew up in a Christian home, graduated from a private Christian school. When I think for myself, it's very hard to believe. But it's also very hard to believe that this universe just created itself out of nothing. Or perhaps maybe it was just always there, there was no beginning. That is after all how God became. It's a crapshoot.

If they somehow discover life on another planet, can you imagine how the Christians will respond? It would making life really interesting!

Well they discovered all kinds of stuff (including evolution) which would normally make life much more 'interesting' and nothing much changed. The bible will just get re-interpreted to suit the circumstances.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
inmyprime is offline  
post #95 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 05:48 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,656
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by inmyprime View Post
Why didn't he just get rid of the snake before the 'incident'? I always felt it was a bit unfair on the two of them. They were just a little gullible and were set up IMO.
He then wouldn't have had to sacrifice his own son which was also a bit much.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
God didn't get rid of the snake before the 'incident' because it wasn't part of God's plan to do so.

God gave everyone a free will. We can use that 'will' for good or evil. The snake tempted Eve and Eve chose to disobey God and eat the fruit. Both Adam and Eve always had the choice to say 'no' to the snake.

God wants us to love Him and love others, but He wants us to chose to love Him by following his commandments. He's not going to FORCE us, otherwise, it isn't through free will that we're making that choice.

He didn't sacrifice His only son; Jesus chose to be the sacrificial lamb for US. He also had the choice between doing his own 'thing' or doing the will of his Father. He sacrificed his life here on earth so we could have eternal life with him and his father in Heaven.
Vega is offline  
post #96 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 06:04 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 1,911
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr The Other View Post
It seems there are three main options.
1) There is no God - Atheist
2) There is a God, who we can start to understand through spiritual humility - Abrahamic faith
3) There is a God. He sits on a cloud, started work on making the world on a Monday and wrote everything literally in a book (in American English, using old British English words) and He agrees with me that everyone else is wrong.
Now, let's all just get along.
I have been a Christian for 40 or so years and I have never regretted for a second doing so. The longer I go on the deeper my faith gets, and my husband is also a strong Christian and has been since a child.
I cant remember a time when I didn't know that God was real, or that Jesus Christ wasn't real.
Diana7 is offline  
post #97 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 06:06 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 1,911
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maricha75 View Post
How so? I actually believe there is life on other planets, and in other solar systems. I, too, grew up in a Christian household, though I did not attend a Christian school. But I have believed all along, as have the members of my church, that there are other beings out there, on other planets. So, do you think most Christians will respond negatively to this potential discovery?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
I dont believe that there is life on other planets, there is no proof of it. I dont know any other Christians who do either.
Diana7 is offline  
post #98 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 06:17 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,621
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by inmyprime View Post
I never understood this: a serial killer on death row can repent his sins, ask for forgiveness and then enjoy eternity in heaven.
Then a perfectly decent person worshipping the 'wrong' kind of god or not worshipping anything at all is going to automatically spend eternity in hell. Bit unfair if you ask me.
Well that serial killer would be in fine company since as described in the bible, the biblical god is an immoral genocidal maniac.
Personal is online now  
post #99 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 06:22 PM
Member
 
Maricha75's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 7,292
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
I dont believe that there is life on other planets, there is no proof of it. I dont know any other Christians who do either.
Well, now you do know of at least one Christian who does believe there is life on other planets. Me. And if you count my family, that would be at least 12. And my denimination, I am certain there are many more. I do not, however, believe they do, or will, visit this earth as it is.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

You can use the 2x4 without adding nails to it.
Maricha75 is offline  
post #100 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 06:27 PM
Member
 
inmyprime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London
Posts: 1,294
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by UMP View Post
Think of it this way. Let's try to pick one of the most evil men in human history, Hitler.
Hitler, more or less, caused the death of around 60,000,000 people. Even when all was lost he married Eva Braun, then killed her too, and unrepentant to the end. (just an assumption for this example)

Let's say God were to place Hitler in hell for eternity. I would dare say that many sinful humans might stand up and say, "yes, I can see that is just."

Let's now say we have one man who killed one person, and unrepentant to the end.
Some men may even say, "yes, I can see that a murderer in hell is just."

Now, let's think of only a mans mind. He hates. Now we have crossed a line. Man will say, "no, just because a man thinks of killing or hating, but has not actually done the act, he should not go to hell."

In God's mind, all the above examples deserve the same punishment. The punishment for sin is death. (true and final "death" is the eternal separation from God.) The very thought of murder is murder, in God's eyes.

Keep in mind, the above is only my man made example. I am no mans judge. Only God will judge and judge finally and justly.
I always had trouble with this: on the one hand god supposedly designed everything knowing exactly what was going to happen (sinning, falling angels, thought crimes etc). Why does he then need to punish people for anything at all if all is in fact is supposed to be part of HIS plan and HIS grand design?
It seems free will comes into play at some point (although I don't see how it can, given that you & co are convinced that everything is part of god's plan. It is not possible to have it both ways - I am not sure how you don't the logical loop.
According to you, it seems that he's just messing around with us. Making us flawed, making us sin, punishing us and expecting us to worship him in return. "Because without sin entering the world, no one would know of God's Love, Mercy and Grace.....not to mention justice."

But maybe that is not the most incorrect depiction of the hopeless nature of the world we live in (except the god part).

inmyprime is offline  
post #101 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 06:39 PM
Member
 
DustyDog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Edging slowly closer to the frozen tundra
Posts: 464
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by inmyprime View Post
Well they discovered all kinds of stuff (including evolution) which would normally make life much more 'interesting' and nothing much changed. The bible will just get re-interpreted to suit the circumstances.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Until the 12th century, the bible WAS considered to be a metaphor. A "myth" is a useful story. Myths, if they're to survive the ages, must tell a larger truth than mere historical fact...they should help us navigate life as we age, help us understand what part of the whole of existence we provide, perhaps give us some guidelines for how to live within a culture we want to create. Good mythologies are location-specific - the same rules don't work in the desert as they do in a rainforest. Note that a "myth" could be true - but there's no need for it to be true, as long as it's useful.

It was not until the 12th century, when the church (then called the Latin Church, now known as Roman Catholicism) realized that if they mandated that the bible IS historical fact, then they could declare that because it's fact, this whole concept of hell is permanent, not temporary (which was then believed) and you HAD to understand it EXACTLY. And, the Bishops and Priests were the only ones who knew the real truth, therefore you HAD to get it from them. This guaranteed that they'd continue to wield enormous power over the generations. So, they did in fact, make these declarations. That led to gobs of people fleeing the church, at which point the church declared war on those who deserted and we had 350-500 years of wars, which included the Crusades.

Scholars date the New Testament to about 300AD...this is based on the grammatical style of the Latin in which it's written. This is weird enough - Jesus did not speak Latin, nor did his followers, and they were all simple plain people...yet the Latin of the New Testament is seriously highbrow.

At that period in history, nobody wrote historically accurate accounts of history. The notion that it would be useful had not yet arisen...the only history that mattered was what you did over the last few months and whether it's time to harvest it! So, the notion that things written back then would be historically accurate complete contravenes what we know about why people wrote long texts back then. The purpose for writing was to influence the opinions and behaviors of others, or to entertain or educate.

One of the BEST things about NOT believing any such story is true is that it can then be subject to modification, for instance, to alter the story of creation to coincide better with what science tells us. In fact, when such stories are written, they ARE consistent with the scientific beliefs of their time.

Whether the bible is true or not isn't so important - it's still got useful messages in it.

There are three kinds of business. Your business, my business and God's business. Whose business are you in? -Byron Katie
DustyDog is offline  
post #102 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 06:39 PM
Member
 
inmyprime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London
Posts: 1,294
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by UMP View Post
The Bible talks about God being our father, our dad.
Maybe you are a father.

Let us say you have two children and they want something from you.

Child #1 I want you to give me my inheritance now, while I can still enjoy it. I figure you're worth at least a million bucks and half of it is mine. I am 18. Give it to me now or I will make your life a mess. If you give it to me, I will be gone and you'll never hear from me again. I don't like your rules and frankly I don't like you. Give me an answer tomorrow by noon.

Child #2 Dad, I wanted to thank you for giving me a great childhood and giving me the opportunity to go to a good school. You have been very good to me and I am thankful. As you know, I am 18 and I have decided to go out on my own. I have a great idea that I will share with you about opening up a business. I need your help and I am willing to do whatever is necessary to be successful. I know you have more knowledge than I do and I want you to teach me along the way. I want you to be part of my life because frankly, I love you.

Which child will be accepted?
If my father let me die on a cross, for someone else's stupid sins (or for any reason for that matter) I would probably leave straight away, without inheritance.

(Also, from your description, I have a feeling that child no2 is being a little sneaky. I don't know yet why but have to see how the story develops first...)
inmyprime is offline  
post #103 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 06:50 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,621
Re: God: Summing it up

If you are Jesus who is also God due to that crazy trinity thing, then being crucified was no sacrifice at all. Since being omnipotent omniscient and omnipresent invalidates self sacrifice.
Personal is online now  
post #104 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 06:57 PM
Member
 
inmyprime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London
Posts: 1,294
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana7 View Post
I dont believe that there is life on other planets, there is no proof of it. I dont know any other Christians who do either.

It must be a new strand. I also haven't heard of any Christians believing in aliens. (I am agnostic about aliens "I like to believe": there is a theory that life on earth was seeded by a comet which contained organic molecules. There is evidence that this could have happened: Rosetta?s comet contains ingredients for life / Rosetta / Space Science / Our Activities / ESA

Do you believe that there are other planets? The bible makes no mention of planets, stars, galaxies, dna...just to be clear.

I also struggled reconciling the age of the earth in the bible with reality...Do you believe that earth is 5000 old?

Is nobody really excited about the stuff science is actually discovering as we speak? I mean seriously...Science is not a belief system. It evolves and changes as new facts emerge. The main religions, by definition, have all the answers already, often in spite of evidence to the contrary. (I hate comparing the two and only mention it because somebody mentioned science as a belief system...).
inmyprime is offline  
post #105 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 07:26 PM
Member
 
Keke24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Caribbean
Posts: 649
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by inmyprime View Post
Is nobody really excited about the stuff science is actually discovering as we speak? I mean seriously...Science is not a belief system. It evolves and changes as new facts emerge.
Oh yes, it is fascinating! I miss being a student just for the daily exposure to the existing and new discoveries in my field.
Keke24 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on Talk About Marriage, you must first register. Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Important! Your username will be visible to the public next to anything you post and could show up in search engines like Google. If you are concerned about anonymity, PLEASE choose a username that will not be recognizable to anyone you know.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GOD UMP Politics and Religion 385 02-14-2017 02:55 PM
Is God everywhere? Personal Politics and Religion 59 02-07-2017 01:06 PM
Separated and Waiting on husband or God? Corpuswife Relationships and Spirituality 25 02-04-2016 09:54 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome