God: Summing it up - Page 8 - Talk About Marriage
Politics and Religion This is the place to discuss politics, morality, religion, and anything controversial.

User Tag List

 419Likes
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
post #106 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 07:27 PM
Member
 
inmyprime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London
Posts: 1,294
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Personal View Post
If you are Jesus who is also God due to that crazy trinity thing, then being crucified was no sacrifice at all. Since being omnipotent omniscient and omnipresent invalidates self sacrifice.
But doesn't free will re-validates it again? (Presumably Jesus had free will to either take it or leave it?)

inmyprime is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #107 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 07:29 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,621
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by inmyprime View Post
But doesn't free will re-validates it again? (Presumably Jesus had free will to either take it or leave it?)
But Jesus is God (according to that crazy trinity stuff).
Personal is online now  
post #108 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 07:36 PM
Member
 
inmyprime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London
Posts: 1,294
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by DustyDog View Post
Until the 12th century, the bible WAS considered to be a metaphor. A "myth" is a useful story. Myths, if they're to survive the ages, must tell a larger truth than mere historical fact...they should help us navigate life as we age, help us understand what part of the whole of existence we provide, perhaps give us some guidelines for how to live within a culture we want to create. Good mythologies are location-specific - the same rules don't work in the desert as they do in a rainforest. Note that a "myth" could be true - but there's no need for it to be true, as long as it's useful.

It was not until the 12th century, when the church (then called the Latin Church, now known as Roman Catholicism) realized that if they mandated that the bible IS historical fact, then they could declare that because it's fact, this whole concept of hell is permanent, not temporary (which was then believed) and you HAD to understand it EXACTLY. And, the Bishops and Priests were the only ones who knew the real truth, therefore you HAD to get it from them. This guaranteed that they'd continue to wield enormous power over the generations. So, they did in fact, make these declarations. That led to gobs of people fleeing the church, at which point the church declared war on those who deserted and we had 350-500 years of wars, which included the Crusades.

Scholars date the New Testament to about 300AD...this is based on the grammatical style of the Latin in which it's written. This is weird enough - Jesus did not speak Latin, nor did his followers, and they were all simple plain people...yet the Latin of the New Testament is seriously highbrow.

At that period in history, nobody wrote historically accurate accounts of history. The notion that it would be useful had not yet arisen...the only history that mattered was what you did over the last few months and whether it's time to harvest it! So, the notion that things written back then would be historically accurate complete contravenes what we know about why people wrote long texts back then. The purpose for writing was to influence the opinions and behaviors of others, or to entertain or educate.

One of the BEST things about NOT believing any such story is true is that it can then be subject to modification, for instance, to alter the story of creation to coincide better with what science tells us. In fact, when such stories are written, they ARE consistent with the scientific beliefs of their time.

Whether the bible is true or not isn't so important - it's still got useful messages in it.
Very interesting context - thanks for that. I knew that most of the new testament was written at least 30-60 years after the facts (which is a long time back then) and it's not clear whether Jesus actually existed (as a person), I hadn't realised it was 300AD...
inmyprime is offline  
 
post #109 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 07:46 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,656
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Personal View Post
But Jesus is God (according to that crazy trinity stuff).
And...your point is...?
Vega is offline  
post #110 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 07:46 PM
Member
 
inmyprime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London
Posts: 1,294
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Personal View Post
But Jesus is God (according to that crazy trinity stuff).
Yes, sorry, I am at the slow desk today...I have to admit I don't understand the trinity thing at all.

Doesn't Jesus often refer to his father? Or was he talking to himself?

I ascend to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God. (John 20:17).

Father.... this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. (John 17:3).

But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but ONLY the Father. (Matthew 24:36). (Referring to his return).

I am confused. Ok, now I am quoting the texts...Mission accomplished
inmyprime is offline  
post #111 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 07:50 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,621
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vega View Post
And...your point is...?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Personal View Post
If you are Jesus who is also God due to that crazy trinity thing, then being crucified was no sacrifice at all. Since being omnipotent omniscient and omnipresent invalidates self sacrifice.
Personal is online now  
post #112 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 07:53 PM
Member
 
inmyprime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London
Posts: 1,294
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by inmyprime View Post
Yes, sorry, I am at the slow desk today...I have to admit I don't understand the trinity thing at all.

Doesn't Jesus often refer to his father? Or was he talking to himself?

I ascend to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God. (John 20:17).

Father.... this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. (John 17:3).

But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but ONLY the Father. (Matthew 24:36). (Referring to his return).

I am confused. Ok, now I am quoting the texts...Mission accomplished
I thought you can get banned for having multiple accounts/doing impersonations?
inmyprime is offline  
post #113 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 07:54 PM
Member
 
Maricha75's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 7,292
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by inmyprime View Post
It must be a new strand. I also haven't heard of any Christians believing in aliens. (I am agnostic about aliens "I like to believe": there is a theory that life on earth was seeded by a comet which contained organic molecules. There is evidence that this could have happened: Rosetta?s comet contains ingredients for life / Rosetta / Space Science / Our Activities / ESA

Do you believe that there are other planets? The bible makes no mention of planets, stars, galaxies, dna...just to be clear.

I also struggled reconciling the age of the earth in the bible with reality...Do you believe that earth is 5000 old?

Is nobody really excited about the stuff science is actually discovering as we speak? I mean seriously...Science is not a belief system. It evolves and changes as new facts emerge. The main religions, by definition, have all the answers already, often in spite of evidence to the contrary. (I hate comparing the two and only mention it because somebody mentioned science as a belief system...).
If 170 year old denomination is a "new strand", then sure. But the best answer for what I believe on the subject is found here:
https://www.amazingfacts.org/news-an...th-pastor-doug

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

You can use the 2x4 without adding nails to it.
Maricha75 is offline  
post #114 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 08:26 PM
Member
 
inmyprime's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: London
Posts: 1,294
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maricha75 View Post
If 170 year old denomination is a "new strand", then sure. But the best answer for what I believe on the subject is found here:
https://www.amazingfacts.org/news-an...th-pastor-doug

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
Pastor Doug is a little thin on detail...

"First, we know that God created everything we see and can’t see. We also know there are other forms of life—angels, cherubim, and seraphim—that come and go from our planet."

I didn't know any of that.

Interesting read.
inmyprime is offline  
post #115 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 08:30 PM
Member
 
Maricha75's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 7,292
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by inmyprime View Post
Pastor Doug is a little thin on detail...

"First, we know that God created everything we see and can’t see. We also know there are other forms of life—angels, cherubim, and seraphim—that come and go from our planet."

I didn't know any of that.

Interesting read.
Keep in mind, Doug is speaking in those terms because most who go to the site are Christian, or searching, and generally do share that belief. 😉

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk


You can use the 2x4 without adding nails to it.
Maricha75 is offline  
post #116 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 09:11 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,621
Re: God: Summing it up

With respect to this discussion the following videos are worth watching.







Personal is online now  
post #117 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 10:18 PM
Member
 
Araucaria's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: East of Eden
Posts: 1,552
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by DustyDog View Post
Believing in a god as a separate entity from humankind is actually a minority belief - even Christianity didn't have it until the 12th century. Until that time, the bible was interpreted as poetic metaphor.
I'm not sure who is teaching you this information, but your statement is not historically correct.

The Hebrews believed in a living, all powerful being, referring to him by various names (YHVH, Abba, Adonai, Elohim, HaKadosh, Meleck Elohim, etc. etc.). Moses saw God's back, https://bible.org/seriespage/29-back...xodus-3318-349 The Jews knew God was a powerful entity, and they feared him, having seen His might and power multiple times. Even the pagans who lived in the areas around the Jews knew the power of their God and feared Him.

Later on, the Christians believe in the Jewish God, and believe that God came to earth as a human being, fully human, fully God as Jesus, to live, and die to atone for our sins, since we were so stinking weak (evil) we couldn't even keep His simple rules. Jesus lived for 33 years, approximately 1200 years before your claim. 1,000's of people saw him.

Flavius Josephus, the Jewish historian born in 37 CE, who was hired by the Romans to keep track of and write their history a few dozen years after the death of Jesus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus interviewed people who saw Jesus, as well as people who knew people who saw and knew Jesus and he wrote their testimonies in his chronicle for the Romans. Anyone can purchase a copy of Josephus' chronicle today, in their own language.
Araucaria is offline  
post #118 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 10:49 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 1,621
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by IMFarAboveRubies View Post
Flavius Josephus, the Jewish historian born in 37 CE, who was hired by the Romans to keep track of and write their history a few dozen years after the death of Jesus https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josephus interviewed people who saw Jesus, as well as people who knew people who saw and knew Jesus and he wrote their testimonies in his chronicle for the Romans. Anyone can purchase a copy of Josephus' chronicle today, in their own language.
Another point of view.

The Josephus Testimonium: Let’s Just Admit It’s Fake Already - Richard Carrier

Josephus on Jesus? Why You Can’t Cite Opinions Before 2014 - Richard Carrier

Last edited by Personal; 03-15-2017 at 11:21 PM.
Personal is online now  
post #119 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 11:40 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 2,918
Re: God: Summing it up

I believe wars have been fought over the meaning of the trinity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by inmyprime View Post
Yes, sorry, I am at the slow desk today...I have to admit I don't understand the trinity thing at all.

Doesn't Jesus often refer to his father? Or was he talking to himself?

I ascend to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God. (John 20:17).

Father.... this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent. (John 17:3).

But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but ONLY the Father. (Matthew 24:36). (Referring to his return).

I am confused. Ok, now I am quoting the texts...Mission accomplished
uhtred is offline  
post #120 of 777 (permalink) Old 03-16-2017, 12:34 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: UK
Posts: 1,911
Re: God: Summing it up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maricha75 View Post
Well, now you do know of at least one Christian who does believe there is life on other planets. Me. And if you count my family, that would be at least 12. And my denimination, I am certain there are many more. I do not, however, believe they do, or will, visit this earth as it is.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
There is certainly no Biblical proof.
Diana7 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on Talk About Marriage, you must first register. Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Important! Your username will be visible to the public next to anything you post and could show up in search engines like Google. If you are concerned about anonymity, PLEASE choose a username that will not be recognizable to anyone you know.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GOD UMP Politics and Religion 385 02-14-2017 02:55 PM
Is God everywhere? Personal Politics and Religion 59 02-07-2017 01:06 PM
Separated and Waiting on husband or God? Corpuswife Relationships and Spirituality 25 02-04-2016 09:54 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome