Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU??? - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
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post #16 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 11:19 AM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

We had Obamacare (which was never going to rising cost of medicine), but it did make health insurance available to some who were previously uninsured. As insurance goes, the cost was spread to those that had insurance. So premiums did rise in some markets. It also addressed the need to provide health care to those falling between the cracks in certain income brackets. So, sure insurance was going to rise and prove control was never part of the legislation. And, there was an added cost to taxpayers as more lower income were provided access to basic care.

Trumpcare, moves some of the same values over from Obamacare without the expansion to lower income or mandates to insurance. So, sure numbers will go down among certain income groups and those opting out of insurance. Since this bill does not address rising cost in health care, the cost will shift from federal spending to local government and medical facility spending. This in effect will cause care for the insured to go up and this means premiums will rise to make up cost.

Both Obamacare and Trumpcare shift cost around (rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic).


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post #17 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 11:38 AM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

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I am considered the "working poor". We make enough to cover our household expenses, but nothing more. We own our cars outright (they're each over a decade old) and we have zero credit card debt, make all our food at home, etc. etc. Hell, we even buy everything we need to used. Clothes from the resale shops and appliances from used appliance stores. It's truly not a matter of belt tightening.

Pre-Obamacare, we couldn't afford insurance and couldn't qualify for state insurance (medicaid) because our income was deemed "too high" (we're slightly above poverty level for our family size) and we literally couldn't afford the upwards of $500-$1200 a month health insurance would cost us. After the state took the Obamacare subsidy, they expanded to covering more of the "working poor" and we qualified.

If the AHCA is repealed, our state loses the subsidy and will have no choice but to cut coverage. We'll lose our insurance.

Meanwhile, after years uninsured, I was finally able to have my heart and thyroid conditions treated and get yearly physicals, pap tests, mammograms, and scans. My doctor has recently discovered possibly cancerous growths on my thyroid and breasts. I am scheduled for further testing and then treatment depending on what the testing reveals. If I have cancer, treatment will save my life. If I do not have cancer, I will have to be monitored for years to come.

Basically, if the ACHA is repealed and not replaced with something for people in my situation, I will not be able to afford insurance and I will not be able to seek treatment for my regular chronic conditions, much less cancer.
Have you read any valid news source saying that the new plan (in the forum it is today) will end the expansion of Medicaid? I think that would not be good.
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post #18 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 11:38 AM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

I think the main issue here is that when Obamacare is dumped there shouldn't be a replacement. Covering positively everyone is not even realistic, would be way too costly and never be able to deal with everyone's needs. Those who do not work and can should not be handed heath care insurance for free...period. For those who were working and got layed off, that's a different matter, you should be covered by the government until you go back to work. Companies that participate in layoffs should be made to foot the bill. It seems to me that companies have a very irresponsible attitude to their employees. I think the main effort should be to restore Medicare and that's it.

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post #19 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 11:40 AM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

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I think the main issue here is that when Obamacare is dumped there shouldn't be a replacement. Covering positively everyone is not even realistic, would be way too costly and never be able to deal with everyone's needs. Those who do not work and can should not be handed heath care insurance for free...period. For those who were working and got layed off, that's a different matter, you should be covered by the government until you go back to work. Companies that participate in layoffs should be made to foot the bill. It seems to me that companies have a very irresponsible attitude to their employees. I think the main effort should be to restore Medicare and that's it.


So when we don't cover everyone with insurance, those folks will still access expensive health care via ER. Who pays for that care?


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post #20 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 11:49 AM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

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So when we don't cover everyone with insurance, those folks will still access expensive health care via ER. Who pays for that care?


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No, they should be refused care.

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post #21 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 12:20 PM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

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Have you read any valid news source saying that the new plan (in the forum it is today) will end the expansion of Medicaid? I think that would not be good.
Long story short, before the ACHA we had our children on medicaid. My daughters qualified for complete coverage because their father wasn't paying support or covering them himself as the court ordered. My son qualified because of his age and our income, but we had to pay a small monthly fee, which was very affordable. DH and I did not qualify because we were adults over age 21, but we would be covered if our monthly healthcare expenses met or exceeded $3200 per 30 day cycle. Our entire pre-tax income was only $3500 a month. When the state decided to take the federal money, I got a letter in the mail telling me DH and I were qualified for full coverage. It was explicitly stated that the state care expansion we were taking part in was funded through the federal subsidy in the letter. If the subsidy goes the state simply doesn't have the budget to continue.

Follow the evidence where it leads and question everything.
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post #22 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-15-2017, 01:30 PM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

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No, they should be refused care.


That is one way to do it, but this requires a repeal of the 1986 Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA).


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post #23 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 07:30 PM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

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I am considered the "working poor". We make enough to cover our household expenses, but nothing more. We own our cars outright (they're each over a decade old) and we have zero credit card debt, make all our food at home, etc. etc. Hell, we even buy everything we need to used. Clothes from the resale shops and appliances from used appliance stores. It's truly not a matter of belt tightening.

Pre-Obamacare, we couldn't afford insurance and couldn't qualify for state insurance (medicaid) because our income was deemed "too high" (we're slightly above poverty level for our family size) and we literally couldn't afford the upwards of $500-$1200 a month health insurance would cost us. After the state took the Obamacare subsidy, they expanded to covering more of the "working poor" and we qualified.

If the AHCA is repealed, our state loses the subsidy and will have no choice but to cut coverage. We'll lose our insurance.

Meanwhile, after years uninsured, I was finally able to have my heart and thyroid conditions treated and get yearly physicals, pap tests, mammograms, and scans. My doctor has recently discovered possibly cancerous growths on my thyroid and breasts. I am scheduled for further testing and then treatment depending on what the testing reveals. If I have cancer, treatment will save my life. If I do not have cancer, I will have to be monitored for years to come.

Basically, if the ACHA is repealed and not replaced with something for people in my situation, I will not be able to afford insurance and I will not be able to seek treatment for my regular chronic conditions, much less cancer.
You need to write your rep. Republicans are prepared to throw people like you under the bus and call it "freedom" or "access." Don't let them convince you that their plan works for you without an explanation. Don't take their word for it. My personal opinion is we basically have two options - 1) single payer or we 2) abolish 3rd party health insurance and put this "free market" theory to a test and see if it really brings the price down or if that will remain a neoliberal dream. Any business whose bottom line is directly inverse to your healthcare should not be trusted.
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post #24 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 02:04 AM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

One of the major problems with health care in the USA is that we spend something like 6 times as much per person annually as any other country. Why? Because there are so many middle men making money off medical care. The pay to doctors has done way down. So that's curious.

If we were to streamline our medical care, we could cover everyone. Sure we might want to limit some things. But we could much more easily afford to cover everyone.

Medicare could be expanded as a baseline coverage. So taxes cover this portion. Then people who want more coverage, or more selections in docs, hospitals and other providers could buy supplemental policies.

What we have right now is a plan that ensures that the insurance industry gets to skim off a lot of money. That drug companies can charge $6K for an epi pen and $10,000 a month for blood thinners.
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post #25 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 11:34 AM
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Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

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One of the major problems with health care in the USA is that we spend something like 6 times as much per person annually as any other country. Why? Because there are so many middle men making money off medical care. The pay to doctors has done way down. So that's curious.



If we were to streamline our medical care, we could cover everyone. Sure we might want to limit some things. But we could much more easily afford to cover everyone.



Medicare could be expanded as a baseline coverage. So taxes cover this portion. Then people who want more coverage, or more selections in docs, hospitals and other providers could buy supplemental policies.



What we have right now is a plan that ensures that the insurance industry gets to skim off a lot of money. That drug companies can charge $6K for an epi pen and $10,000 a month for blood thinners.


Oh I so agree and thought this is what should have been pushed back in 2009 rather than Obamacare. Now we will have Trumpcare that simply rearranges the deck chairs on the titanic. This time however the chairs accommodate the wealthy in exchange for older patrons (not yet retired) to stand.

Maybe after the two named renditions of policy failures, we will go to something like Medicare for all and allow folks to buy supplemental (gap) insurance as they feel the need.


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post #26 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 07:52 PM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

Are you willing to let people die in front of doctor's offices and hospitals when they could be saved? Are you willing to let infectious diseases spread through the poorer communities when vaccines are available? Do you want people begging for money for medical care? Will you turn away a child with appendicitis and let them die in agony? Would you stop medical care in prisons so that desperate people don't commit crimes just to get treatment?

I'm not willing to do those things, no matter how poorly people have managed their lives. I do not want to live surrounded by misery and poverty, no matter how wealthy I am personally.

I want a safety net for everyone. I want it regulated to a reasonable level of care, and I'm willing to discuss what constitutes "reasonable" but I expect the care provided by a low cost HMO like Kaiser - which is what I have for my own medical care.

Ideally I want socialized medicine because once we decide everyone deserves care, we cannot have an efficient market, there is too much pressure to increase the amount of care and the associated prices.





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No, they should be refused care.
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post #27 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 08:08 PM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

First, I am Canadian, and have no skin in this game whatsoever. I am used to universal healthcare on demand free of charge. If I were an American, with my health history, I would most certainly be bankrupt. I have suffered two heart attacks, required intensive care, have had my hearing restored in my left ear by replacement of the bones with a plastic prosthesis. It was all paid for by my single payer health insurance. Something I never think about. There are no 'for profit' insurance companies involved. Our physicians are well paid (I know, my kid is one). We have state of the art hospitals. One downside, there are wait times for elective procedures.

The US is the last nation in the western world without universal healthcare. Our system is not perfect, but everyone, from homeless person to billionaire is covered, can show up at any clinic, any hospital and receive treatment without a bill.
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post #28 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 09:09 PM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

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One of the major problems with health care in the USA is that we spend something like 6 times as much per person annually as any other country. Why? Because there are so many middle men making money off medical care. The pay to doctors has done way down. So that's curious.

If we were to streamline our medical care, we could cover everyone. Sure we might want to limit some things. But we could much more easily afford to cover everyone.

Medicare could be expanded as a baseline coverage. So taxes cover this portion. Then people who want more coverage, or more selections in docs, hospitals and other providers could buy supplemental policies.

What we have right now is a plan that ensures that the insurance industry gets to skim off a lot of money. That drug companies can charge $6K for an epi pen and $10,000 a month for blood thinners.
You finally got it. We may make a progressive out of you at the end!!
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post #29 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 09:13 PM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

I haven't read thru all the responses yet, but neither party is addressing the high cost of service. Like lowering the cost of medicine, tort reform. Why does a MR or CAT scan cost several thousand dollars. My BIL was life flighted 60 miles and the bill just for the helicopter ride alone was over 20K
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post #30 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 09:15 PM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

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Are you willing to let people die in front of doctor's offices and hospitals when they could be saved? Are you willing to let infectious diseases spread through the poorer communities when vaccines are available? Do you want people begging for money for medical care? Will you turn away a child with appendicitis and let them die in agony? Would you stop medical care in prisons so that desperate people don't commit crimes just to get treatment?

I'm not willing to do those things, no matter how poorly people have managed their lives. I do not want to live surrounded by misery and poverty, no matter how wealthy I am personally.

I want a safety net for everyone. I want it regulated to a reasonable level of care, and I'm willing to discuss what constitutes "reasonable" but I expect the care provided by a low cost HMO like Kaiser - which is what I have for my own medical care.

Ideally I want socialized medicine because once we decide everyone deserves care, we cannot have an efficient market, there is too much pressure to increase the amount of care and the associated prices.
Some people are ok with all this. I don't think they realize how untreated deceases can harm even them and their families.
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