Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU??? - Page 3 - Talk About Marriage
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post #31 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 09:20 PM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

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You finally got it. We may make a progressive out of you at the end!!
I did not 'finally get it'. I been saying this about medical care in the USA since long before the ACA.

I agree with "progressives" on a lot of things and with conservatives on a lot of other things. Neither side has the entire truth. The solutions to the problems in this country are not just all left or all right.

I prefer to pick the good from each form of government, economic system and social-system/culture. The idea that any one ideology is the only correct one is ludicrous.

The problem is that people tend to pigeon hole others and once that happens refuse to even really listen to what they are saying.


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post #32 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 10:28 PM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

Here's the thing. I'm not am altruistic liberal bleeding heart type. I simply want people to have play money to buy the stuff I make.

If every capitalist person thought this way we'll all be happy...
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post #33 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 12:02 AM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

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Here's the thing. I'm not am altruistic liberal bleeding heart type. I simply want people to have play money to buy the stuff I make.

If every capitalist person thought this way we'll all be happy...
I agree with this. Concentrating wealth in a very small segment of the population strangles capitalism. The wealthy only spend a portion of their wealth. The rest is locked away in investments.

Our economy was stronger when we had a large middle class because they spent money. Sure some portion of that was in savings, but a larger percentage was spent. This created jobs and wealth.

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post #34 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 09:33 AM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

The other side of this is that if there are more people with money, there will be more services and businesses catering to people with money. I don't want to live in a palace surrounded by poverty.





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Here's the thing. I'm not am altruistic liberal bleeding heart type. I simply want people to have play money to buy the stuff I make.

If every capitalist person thought this way we'll all be happy...
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post #35 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 10:09 AM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

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Are you willing to let people die in front of doctor's offices and hospitals when they could be saved? Are you willing to let infectious diseases spread through the poorer communities when vaccines are available? Do you want people begging for money for medical care? Will you turn away a child with appendicitis and let them die in agony? Would you stop medical care in prisons so that desperate people don't commit crimes just to get treatment?

I'm not willing to do those things, no matter how poorly people have managed their lives. I do not want to live surrounded by misery and poverty, no matter how wealthy I am personally.

I want a safety net for everyone. I want it regulated to a reasonable level of care, and I'm willing to discuss what constitutes "reasonable" but I expect the care provided by a low cost HMO like Kaiser - which is what I have for my own medical care.

Ideally I want socialized medicine because once we decide everyone deserves care, we cannot have an efficient market, there is too much pressure to increase the amount of care and the associated prices.
Socialized medicine is not going to work, it will practically bankrupt the country because like for any other free program it will get abused to the point of having to discontinue it. Sooner or later you will have to refuse care so where you draw the line will always be a problem. People will have to come to learn that healthcare is NOT an entitlement, it should be something that comes if you earn it so it makes sense that you should only get it when you have a job. That will also stop freeloaders from getting it.

I honestly don't see anything wrong with the system we have before Obamacare, it placed the responsibility of whether you have insurance or not back on the individual because you only get it if you have a job. The only thing that needed fixing was to assure that Medicare stayed afloat, but like any other program it was getting abused so reforms were needed to keep it going.

The truth is that everyone doesn't earn and therefore doesn't deserve a safety net. I really think the same should be true for welfare. If we take all the freeloaders off welfare and use the money to save Medicare, I think you have a good system.

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post #36 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 10:34 AM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

Why isn't socialized medicine abused elsewhere?

(Hint: I know the answer)
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post #37 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 11:14 AM
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Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

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Socialized medicine is not going to work, it will practically bankrupt the country because like for any other free program it will get abused to the point of having to discontinue it. Sooner or later you will have to refuse care so where you draw the line will always be a problem. People will have to come to learn that healthcare is NOT an entitlement, it should be something that comes if you earn it so it makes sense that you should only get it when you have a job. That will also stop freeloaders from getting it.



I honestly don't see anything wrong with the system we have before Obamacare, it placed the responsibility of whether you have insurance or not back on the individual because you only get it if you have a job. The only thing that needed fixing was to assure that Medicare stayed afloat, but like any other program it was getting abused so reforms were needed to keep it going.



The truth is that everyone doesn't earn and therefore doesn't deserve a safety net. I really think the same should be true for welfare. If we take all the freeloaders off welfare and use the money to save Medicare, I think you have a good system.


Don't forget the system we had before Obamacare was unsustainable. The rise in health care cost between 1999 and 2009 was 131%. By August of 2009, when Obamacare was first discussed in congress nearly 50 million were uninsured and businesses that offered health care to employees were finding this to be an unreasonable expense. Most people who paid their own, were finding the premium expenses beyond their possibility. And, more than half of all bankruptcies were the result unpaid (high priced) medical expenses. People were still able to access the ER and walk away without paying (because they could not in most cases) which burdened hospitals. It was not the good old days of medicine. It was a disaster and it was not getting better for anyone. Those who did not feel the pinch, it would have been a matter of time.

No doubt, we as Americans put our own selves at risk and contribute to the cost: we (too many) are unhealthy and demand over testing; we have changed the health care system to a disease management system. So, sure the good old days would be fine if we were realistic with our own care, to start with.


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post #38 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 01:54 PM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

People will take too many of some free goods. It the government hands out free TVs, then people may want one in every room. Medical care is different. Will a lot of people sign up for extra colonoscopies just because they are free?

Socialized medicine does need regulation, not against consumers but against companies that will try to sell ever more expensive treatments. A line needs to be drawn somewhere, but that is true for any government supported health care.

I disagree with your statement " The truth is that everyone doesn't earn and therefore doesn't deserve a safety net." As I said before, are you really willing to let a child die because their parents aren't working? Are you willing to let prisoners die of curable illnesses and injuries because they aren't working - or do you consider a murderer to have more right to medical care than someone who is too lazy to work?


Just curious - are you a christian?





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Originally Posted by jb02157 View Post
Socialized medicine is not going to work, it will practically bankrupt the country because like for any other free program it will get abused to the point of having to discontinue it. Sooner or later you will have to refuse care so where you draw the line will always be a problem. People will have to come to learn that healthcare is NOT an entitlement, it should be something that comes if you earn it so it makes sense that you should only get it when you have a job. That will also stop freeloaders from getting it.

I honestly don't see anything wrong with the system we have before Obamacare, it placed the responsibility of whether you have insurance or not back on the individual because you only get it if you have a job. The only thing that needed fixing was to assure that Medicare stayed afloat, but like any other program it was getting abused so reforms were needed to keep it going.

The truth is that everyone doesn't earn and therefore doesn't deserve a safety net. I really think the same should be true for welfare. If we take all the freeloaders off welfare and use the money to save Medicare, I think you have a good system.
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post #39 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 02:25 PM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

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People will take too many of some free goods. It the government hands out free TVs, then people may want one in every room. Medical care is different. Will a lot of people sign up for extra colonoscopies just because they are free?

Socialized medicine does need regulation, not against consumers but against companies that will try to sell ever more expensive treatments. A line needs to be drawn somewhere, but that is true for any government supported health care.

I disagree with your statement " The truth is that everyone doesn't earn and therefore doesn't deserve a safety net." As I said before, are you really willing to let a child die because their parents aren't working? Are you willing to let prisoners die of curable illnesses and injuries because they aren't working - or do you consider a murderer to have more right to medical care than someone who is too lazy to work?


Just curious - are you a christian?
Yes, I am a Christian...a Christian that believes that you earn what get in this life and you shouldn't feel entitled to anything. Just because you're sick doesn't mean that you are automatically entitled to free medical care. I've worked hard all my life so that my family can have a roof over their head, a meal on the table and a doctor to take care of them if they get sick. A damn freeloader who has never known a day of work in their lifetime shouldn't be able to give that to their family. He didn't earn his safety net, I earned mine.

"I've paid double for every transgression I've ever made and that motel and that boat are little to ask for"
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post #40 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 03:04 PM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

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Yes, I am a Christian...a Christian that believes that you earn what get in this life and you shouldn't feel entitled to anything. Just because you're sick doesn't mean that you are automatically entitled to free medical care. I've worked hard all my life so that my family can have a roof over their head, a meal on the table and a doctor to take care of them if they get sick. A damn freeloader who has never known a day of work in their lifetime shouldn't be able to give that to their family. He didn't earn his safety net, I earned mine.
You must not fully understand the concept of insurance...

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post #41 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 03:10 PM
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Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

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Yes, I am a Christian...a Christian that believes that you earn what get in this life and you shouldn't feel entitled to anything. Just because you're sick doesn't mean that you are automatically entitled to free medical care. I've worked hard all my life so that my family can have a roof over their head, a meal on the table and a doctor to take care of them if they get sick. A damn freeloader who has never known a day of work in their lifetime shouldn't be able to give that to their family. He didn't earn his safety net, I earned mine.


Do you believe you earn enough to take on the cost of a catastrophic medical event? Very few (even among the upper middle class) can buffer this cost without a great deal of financial hardship.


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post #42 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 03:22 PM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

Chemotherapeutic regimes can be as low as $100/month over a six month to one year treatment. The most aggressive skin cancers (while very hard to treat with a poor diagnosis) are relatively cheap at about $6K for a full regime. However, some cancer treatments are catastrophic on both the diagnosis and financials, ranging in cost from $64K to $115K for a full six month to 1 year treatment. None of these cost include indirect expenses.

An example of catastrophic care.


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post #43 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-21-2017, 03:58 PM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

Deuteronomy 15 7-8

Funny for a Satanist to be preaching charity to a Christian


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Yes, I am a Christian...a Christian that believes that you earn what get in this life and you shouldn't feel entitled to anything. Just because you're sick doesn't mean that you are automatically entitled to free medical care. I've worked hard all my life so that my family can have a roof over their head, a meal on the table and a doctor to take care of them if they get sick. A damn freeloader who has never known a day of work in their lifetime shouldn't be able to give that to their family. He didn't earn his safety net, I earned mine.
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post #44 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-22-2017, 07:39 AM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

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You must not fully understand the concept of insurance...
Really...I used to sell insurance a long time ago. Ask me anything you want regarding insurance and I'll know better than you what the answer is. I know that health insurance like any other type of insurance is not an entitlement an it's something you have to pay for like anything else. I know, let's start handing out car insurance as the next new wonderful entitlement you get just for coming to America. Some of those who get it may not have cars...but who cares let's give it to them anyway.

"I've paid double for every transgression I've ever made and that motel and that boat are little to ask for"
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post #45 of 188 (permalink) Old 03-22-2017, 07:47 AM
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Re: Revamping the ACA -What Say YOU???

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Deuteronomy 15 7-8

Funny for a Satanist to be preaching charity to a Christian
There's charity and there's stupidity. Charity is helping out a friend or a neighbor when they need help. Stupidity is when a nation has so many entitlements it quite literally bankrupts them and it ends up helping the undocumented immigrant (who should be deported) more than actual citizens.

"I've paid double for every transgression I've ever made and that motel and that boat are little to ask for"
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