You're Fired - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
Politics and Religion This is the place to discuss politics, morality, religion, and anything controversial.

User Tag List

 25Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
post #16 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 02:07 PM
Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 1,311
Re: You're Fired

Quote:
Originally Posted by jb02157 View Post
I shouldn't be. This is a place where the government ought to get involved and stop company management from doing this or surrender any tax break they might be getting. Here, management can do anything they want to in regard to hiring and firing. It's not that way in Europe, in some countries you have to find someone you plan to lay off another job at a comparable salary before then can stop employing you.
It does seem very wrong, but I think you have to be very careful how you go about this as this type of govt. meddling can also really backfire. Some places in Europe have extremely high youth unemployment rates because of policies similar to this. Companies are afraid to take on new people because it's so hard to fire them if they don't work out, or close their position if it's not needed.

WorkingWife is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 02:59 PM
Member
 
john117's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 11,389
Re: You're Fired

Actually the PhD is not the outsourcing elixir. Instead, it's the fact that it allowed me to get into 3 different aspects of product design and engineering. You can't find one person that can do two, let alone three. (design itself, user experience, and software). I've been at the same company for 32 years.
john117 is offline  
post #18 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 05:32 PM Thread Starter
Forum Supporter
 
Haiku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 3,388
Re: You're Fired

Quote:
Originally Posted by john117 View Post
Actually the PhD is not the outsourcing elixir. Instead, it's the fact that it allowed me to get into 3 different aspects of product design and engineering. You can't find one person that can do two, let alone three. (design itself, user experience, and software). I've been at the same company for 32 years.
I thought your degree was in psychology. My brain is mushy.

.........><)))#">
Haiku is offline  
 
post #19 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
Forum Supporter
 
Haiku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 3,388
Re: You're Fired

Quote:
Originally Posted by EleGirl View Post
In order to immigrate legally, there are rules. One of the rules is that for certain types of immigration and/or green cards the immigrant has to be sponsored by an employer.

The way to disallow it is to have a rule that says that the immigrant cannot replace an American worker. And that the employer has to prove that there are no American citizens to take the job. Most countries have rules like this.
I don't think H1B is an immigration visa. It is a temporary work permit. From what I've gathered so far the original bill was amended to give some exemptions for employers with positions that exceeded $60k. I'm sure it gets a bit more complicated than that but that's a start.

.........><)))#">
Haiku is offline  
post #20 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 05:59 PM Thread Starter
Forum Supporter
 
Haiku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 3,388
Re: You're Fired

Quote:
Originally Posted by sokillme View Post
All it takes is your company to be bought out and even the indispensable people end up going. I am the same as you, basically the go to guy for all things tech, and it happened to me when my old company got bought out. Now that doesn't have to do with h1b but same concept. No one is irreplaceable, everyone has to learn this the hard way though.
The adage that "no one is indispensable" couldn't be more true than in business particularly within the technology field.

.........><)))#">
Haiku is offline  
post #21 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 06:06 PM
Member
 
john117's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 11,389
Re: You're Fired

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haiku View Post
I thought your degree was in psychology. My brain is mushy.
All three. Which qualify me for user experience work. I learned programming during my MA degree in computational linguistics back in the dark age... Took a bunch of courses and wasted many a weekend teaching myself too. That's two. I also spent a ton of time learning the tools of the design trade, Photoshop, 3ds Max, Rhino, Altia. That's​ three.

There's a moral lesson here. Keep learning. I'm now doing a lot of MATLAB since my lab has been tasked with some obscure math intensive work and nobody else has the time to do it.
john117 is offline  
post #22 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 06:10 PM
Member
 
NotEasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Australia
Posts: 542
Re: You're Fired

Quote:
Originally Posted by EleGirl View Post
In order to immigrate legally, there are rules. One of the rules is that for certain types of immigration and/or green cards the immigrant has to be sponsored by an employer.

The way to disallow it is to have a rule that says that the immigrant cannot replace an American worker. And that the employer has to prove that there are no American citizens to take the job. Most countries have rules like this.
Australia has rules like this. Companies must advertise for jobs to prove there are no local applicants, so they use badly worded ads, limited response time etc, and then use the lack of responses to justify hiring an immigrant.
The mining industry is said to be the worst. They went to fly in / fly out, where workers fly in for a week working long shifts, then fly home for a week. Few locals want to spend so long away from family but immigrants are already away from family. And people who live close to the mine are not employed because they live too far from the airport. Or they demand combinations of specialised skills, get no applications, then hire an immigrant and train them. And sometimes they house them in temporary sheds near the mine.
Actually perhaps fast food is the worst here. The government recently closed off skilled immigration visas for entry level kitchen hands in fast food places. Since when is that a skilled job?

Rules don't fix the problem unless they are enforced reasonably. To me the existence of so many of these problems for so long means that people in government should be fired.

"Life wasn't meant to be easy;
but take heart, parts of it can be delightful."
Malcolm Fraser
NotEasy is offline  
post #23 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 06:13 PM
Member
 
john117's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 11,389
Re: You're Fired

The job ads, LOLOL.

Make them narrow enough and nobody but you... You get the idea. Make them general enough and no labor clearance.
john117 is offline  
post #24 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 06:16 PM Thread Starter
Forum Supporter
 
Haiku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 3,388
Re: You're Fired

Quote:
Originally Posted by WorkingWife View Post
How could you disallow it?
That's a good question. Without Congress I'm not sure it can be.

There are is a lot of abuse (my word) going on. Outsourcing companies can sponsor the H1B applicant displacing an American employee. The guy on my team who left on March 1st trained his replacement and had to sign away any right to file a complaint to get his severance...exactly as presented in the 60 Minutes piece. Regardless who's filling out the paperwork this is fishy but as I understand completely legal.

.........><)))#">
Haiku is offline  
post #25 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 06:22 PM Thread Starter
Forum Supporter
 
Haiku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 3,388
Re: You're Fired

Quote:
Originally Posted by john117 View Post
All three.
I'm sorry I don't understand.

I'm not challenging your quals just clarifying your phd is in psychology.

Lots of phds in tech are working outside their trained discipline. A former colleague was a math phd and he left to be an actuarial. I never understood why he was with us in the first place. I'm pretty sure he almost doubled his salary.


.........><)))#">
Haiku is offline  
post #26 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 07:19 PM
Member
 
john117's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 11,389
Re: You're Fired

Undergraduate - general psychology. Learned good data analysis skills, and the usual undergrad Freud this and it's all your fault that . That was in Europe. Managed to learn FORTRAN in the process.

For my MA degree I was interested in the cognitive processes involved in learning. So, I chose computational linguistics since that was getting hot back then. Mostly knowledge representation, grammars, early machine learning type stuff. Took a bunch of computer science classes since I needed those for my work. This being the mid 1980s that stuff was hot (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Know...ng_Environment). I lucked into a job using KEE to capture knowledge of factory foremen. Supposedly so that they could pass the knowledge to younger associates. In practice to move the whole plant offshore in the early mid 1990's.

I took an education leave to go for my PhD, changing direction once again to Decision Analysis (think the psych side of marketing and the nuts and bolts of user experience, ie how people assess what's going on and make choices when they interact with complex systems).

Came back to my company as user experience was getting hot (see the trend?) and landed a junior position at age 40 in our a user experience group. Taught myself the design tools we use so that I could collaborate better with the full time designers. Twelve years later I was promoted to team leader running the UX lab.

There's a few moral lessons here:

1. Keep learning. The stuff I did in the 80s is gone, and I'd be gone with it without learning.

2. Think where the future goes and roll with the punches. Don't try to follow the common path. Learn to identify trends.

3. Follow the industry. Present your work, be proactive and visible. Toot your own horn.

4. Play politics and be patient. My predecessor and former manager was one crazy lady, but I made peace with her and the corporate machine... And took her position when she retired.

5. Volunteer to do assignments​ that teach you something.

6. Be willing to start at the bottom if it gets you cool assignments.

I could write more but you get the idea. We will outsource the Supreme Court before they outsource me 😁😁

My wife followed the money and my path. She had her MS applied mathematics and worked in IT. She (and I) saw the industry move towards big data. Since she's very good in data analysis (we met in a graduate statistics course, FML) she took my lead and got into big data before most people knew what it was. She changes jobs every few years.

Regardless she's narrowly escaped outsourcing a couple times and was outsourced once...

Last edited by john117; 03-20-2017 at 07:25 PM.
john117 is offline  
post #27 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 07:39 PM Thread Starter
Forum Supporter
 
Haiku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 3,388
Re: You're Fired

Quote:
Originally Posted by john117 View Post
...PhD, changing direction once again to Decision Analysis...
Decision analysis, I'm not too familiar but thinking that comes out of a school's college of business or the college of liberal arts and sciences. Am I on the right track.

.........><)))#">
Haiku is offline  
post #28 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 08:59 PM
Member
 
john117's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Midwest USA
Posts: 11,389
Re: You're Fired

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haiku View Post
Decision analysis, I'm not too familiar but thinking that comes out of a school's college of business or the college of liberal arts and sciences. Am I on the right track.
There's the business school side - all numbers - and there is the cognitive side, where we figure out how the brain represents knowledge and information, how the real world is mapped into the cognitive world, and how decisions are made. Of course, the basic idea of decision theory is to help make better decisions (prescriptive) or examine existing decisions (descriptive).

For example we consider what impacts decisions, emotional state, pure risk vs reward type considerations​, the whole nine yards. It's a lot more theoretical, often called decision theory like this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decision_theory

There's a trend to separate this from regular psych into more formal cognitive science. Good stuff😁
john117 is offline  
post #29 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 09:53 PM Thread Starter
Forum Supporter
 
Haiku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: United States
Posts: 3,388
Re: You're Fired

I was only looking for the degree and school.

I had a choice between BS of Computer Science (Dept of Computer Science) or BS of Software Engineering (College of Engineering). One aunt has her PhD of Psychiatry (College of Medicine). My former wife has her BA of Accounting (College of Business).

Anyway enough of that.

No matter the background everyone on my floor just breaks big rocks into small rocks every day to the point I swear I work in Bedrock instead of St Paul. I'm fortunate because I'm retired law enforcement and on my second career, but watching those two coworkers train their replacements and leave just rubbed me the wrong way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by john117 View Post
There's the business school side - all numbers - and there is the cognitive side, where we figure out how the brain represents knowledge and information, how the real world is mapped into the cognitive world, and how decisions are made. Of course, the basic idea of decision theory is to help make better decisions (prescriptive) or examine existing decisions (descriptive).

For example we consider what impacts decisions, emotional state, pure risk vs reward type considerations​, the whole nine yards. It's a lot more theoretical, often called decision theory like this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decision_theory

There's a trend to separate this from regular psych into more formal cognitive science. Good stuff��

.........><)))#">
Haiku is offline  
post #30 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 10:03 PM
Moderator
 
EleGirl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: New Mexico
Posts: 32,195
Re: You're Fired

Quote:
Originally Posted by Haiku View Post
I don't think H1B is an immigration visa. It is a temporary work permit. From what I've gathered so far the original bill was amended to give some exemptions for employers with positions that exceeded $60k. I'm sure it gets a bit more complicated than that but that's a start.
You are right. I'm using the term "immigration" loosely. I mean to be talking about the H1B work permits.
EleGirl is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on Talk About Marriage, you must first register. Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Important! Your username will be visible to the public next to anything you post and could show up in search engines like Google. If you are concerned about anonymity, PLEASE choose a username that will not be recognizable to anyone you know.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wells Fraudo Bank Fozzy Politics and Religion 35 09-23-2016 10:07 AM
"Woman fired for not wearing high heels to work" MrsAldi Politics and Religion 46 06-06-2016 06:59 AM
Why marijuana users are safe drivers tech-novelist The Social Spot 67 03-28-2016 02:14 PM
America has a problem with gun insanity LongWalk Politics and Religion 7437 03-21-2016 06:51 PM
Living with a Yeller... thirtywhacks General Relationship Discussion 42 12-14-2015 01:05 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome