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post #1 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-19-2017, 07:23 PM Thread Starter
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You're Fired

I'm seeing this in real time. Two people on my team alone just trained their replacements. Their last day was March 1. I'd say about 20% of my team's work has been offshored. It's happening on the whole floor but at about a 30% rate.

You're Fired - 60 Minutes Videos - CBS News


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post #2 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 12:08 AM
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Re: You're Fired

I don't understand why this is allowed.

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post #3 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 12:16 AM
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Re: You're Fired

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I don't understand why this is allowed.
It's a very big part of why Trump was elected. Now is he REALLY going to do something about it? We will see. It has also been going on with blue collar workers for 50 years and no one really gave a ****.
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post #4 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 06:59 AM Thread Starter
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Re: You're Fired

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I don't understand why this is allowed.
According to the 60 Minutes piece the H1B rules were changed allowing a loophole for companies where an employee earns >$60k. That's just about everyone in the skilled labor market.

I've seen technology and HelpDesk services offshored before and it ended badly. In all fairness though, in my [parent] company's case I strongly suspect they aren't trying to be more profitable but rather to look like it on the books to sell off this subsidiary.

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post #5 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 07:03 AM Thread Starter
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Re: You're Fired

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It has also been going on with blue collar workers for 50 years and no one really gave a ****.
Not to turn this into white v. blue collar worker discussion. I'm more of a ring-around-the-collar worker anyway.

But H1B? Don't think so.
Offshoring work, ok.

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post #6 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 10:16 AM
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Re: You're Fired

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Not to turn this into white v. blue collar worker discussion. I'm more of a ring-around-the-collar worker anyway.

But H1B? Don't think so.
Offshoring work, ok.
Yes technically you are right. I mean generally industries such as Steel have been "outsourced" to other country/workers. So yes it is not the same mechanism but it is the same result.
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post #7 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 10:30 AM
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Re: You're Fired

The h1b issue is caused by short sightedness by management and by complacency by employees.

I can't be replaced by an h1b because it takes 3-4 of them to do my work. I'm what is known as a "purple squirrel". My wife likewise. Plus we have enough common sense to detect outsourcing and act accordingly if needed (her, not me).

Now, I don't expect the average common mortal to go and get a PhD to avoid being outsourced, but it takes some effort to learn new things and stay current. In engineering, it's expected and generally done. In IT... not so much.

Or, if you end up in a small town with few options, because you love the rural lifestyle, well, tough luck...

Having said that, the current crop of h1bs is generally awful. Nothing like the top people from decades ago. And I hope Trump does something about it, but will believe it when I see it.
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post #8 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 12:54 PM Thread Starter
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Re: You're Fired

You may be thinking about your unique situation.

We have a few PhDs as engineers, one of which is my friend. He was indeed outsourced a year ago. (He took a job within five miles of his home for a higher salary.)

Not all PhDs are filling PhD positions (particularly engineers) and all it takes is a pen to change the job description.

We employ a fair number of mathematic PhDs but their degree is not essential to the job. Despite only having a pedestrian bachelor the PhDs are peers.

Depending on a company's motivation to outsource the bottom line often seems to drive who's on the chopping block. Not their skill set, degree, or contribution to the organization.

Btw I've never found a 1:1 relationship between the output of an outsource resource to the original employee. Never.

Edit: actually I take that back. I can think of one person outsourced and the off shore resource was better. Unfortunately the new resource isn't much benefit to my team because he only needs to do the minimal amount of work because that's all the original employee could do. Lol.



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Originally Posted by john117 View Post
The h1b issue is caused by short sightedness by management and by complacency by employees.

I can't be replaced by an h1b because it takes 3-4 of them to do my work. I'm what is known as a "purple squirrel". My wife likewise. Plus we have enough common sense to detect outsourcing and act accordingly if needed (her, not me).

Now, I don't expect the average common mortal to go and get a PhD to avoid being outsourced, but it takes some effort to learn new things and stay current. In engineering, it's expected and generally done. In IT... not so much.

Or, if you end up in a small town with few options, because you love the rural lifestyle, well, tough luck...

Having said that, the current crop of h1bs is generally awful. Nothing like the top people from decades ago. And I hope Trump does something about it, but will believe it when I see it.

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post #9 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 12:55 PM
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Re: You're Fired

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Originally Posted by john117 View Post
The h1b issue is caused by short sightedness by management and by complacency by employees.

I can't be replaced by an h1b because it takes 3-4 of them to do my work. I'm what is known as a "purple squirrel". My wife likewise. Plus we have enough common sense to detect outsourcing and act accordingly if needed (her, not me).

Now, I don't expect the average common mortal to go and get a PhD to avoid being outsourced, but it takes some effort to learn new things and stay current. In engineering, it's expected and generally done. In IT... not so much.

Or, if you end up in a small town with few options, because you love the rural lifestyle, well, tough luck...

Having said that, the current crop of h1bs is generally awful. Nothing like the top people from decades ago. And I hope Trump does something about it, but will believe it when I see it.
All it takes is your company to be bought out and even the indispensable people end up going. I am the same as you, basically the go to guy for all things tech, and it happened to me when my old company got bought out. Now that doesn't have to do with h1b but same concept. No one is irreplaceable, everyone has to learn this the hard way though.
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post #10 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 01:04 PM
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Re: You're Fired

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I don't understand why this is allowed.
It shouldn't be. This is a place where the government ought to get involved and stop company management from doing this or surrender any tax break they might be getting. Here, management can do anything they want to in regard to hiring and firing. It's not that way in Europe, in some countries you have to find someone you plan to lay off another job at a comparable salary before they can stop employing you.


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post #11 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 01:38 PM Thread Starter
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Re: You're Fired

According to the 60 Minutes spot closing the $60k loophole added to the H1B is a good start.

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post #12 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 01:56 PM
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Re: You're Fired

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I don't understand why this is allowed.
How could you disallow it?
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post #13 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 01:58 PM
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Re: You're Fired

This is happening over and over in my H company. Very disheartening.

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post #14 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 02:00 PM
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Re: You're Fired

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It's a very big part of why Trump was elected. Now is he REALLY going to do something about it? We will see. It has also been going on with blue collar workers for 50 years and no one really gave a ****.
My MIL had to train young guys to be her boss when she worked in a bank 40 years ago. This has always been going on, but it has really accelerated with the off shoring. Add robots to the mix and I am very worried for our economy 10 years from now. What will Americans even be able to do for a living that will bring them a salary commensurate with our cost of living when you have people in other countries able to work for 1/10 the cost, and robots/automation able to replace so many people?
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post #15 of 31 (permalink) Old 03-20-2017, 02:05 PM
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Re: You're Fired

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How could you disallow it?
In order to immigrate legally, there are rules. One of the rules is that for certain types of immigration and/or green cards the immigrant has to be sponsored by an employer.

The way to disallow it is to have a rule that says that the immigrant cannot replace an American worker. And that the employer has to prove that there are no American citizens to take the job. Most countries have rules like this.

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