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Old 01-25-2012, 11:21 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default the nation's middle class is at risk

In State of the Union address, Obama says

are they just now realizing this?
AFTER so many have already lost everything.
very typical.
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:17 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: the nation's middle class is at risk

True:

I watched the debate> We have all heard about organized crime. Looking at all those politicians, all I thought about was "organized corruption"

The media will always report on corruption in 3rd world countries. The only difference is, in the third world it is not organized. All the lobbies and political hacks getthing together moving paper around for thier own financial gain.

I do not blame corporate America they are only trying to survive.

When are we going to take the gloves off and put Communist China in its place.
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: the nation's middle class is at risk

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Originally Posted by gonefishin View Post
True:

I watched the debate> We have all heard about organized crime. Looking at all those politicians, all I thought about was "organized corruption"

The media will always report on corruption in 3rd world countries. The only difference is, in the third world it is not organized. All the lobbies and political hacks getthing together moving paper around for thier own financial gain.

I do not blame corporate America they are only trying to survive.

When are we going to take the gloves off and put Communist China in its place.
OK - I'll bite...

What has been China's role and what do you propose we do?
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Old 01-25-2012, 12:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: the nation's middle class is at risk

China has set thier stage to be a global super power. Thier cenral government will subsidize industry with cheap or free labor for exports. In some cases they will sell below cost in many countries to get the edge. We all know China will even munipulate their currency, devalue it for a competitive edge. The United States continues to operate in the 1930's tax model. We should not be taxing production. We are now in a very competitve global market. If we scraped the income or production tax and moved to a consumption tax we could help even the playing field. Dumping the income tax would bring back millions of jobs in the United States not to mention the foreign companies that would want to open up plants in the United States. Our exports would boom. Taxing at the cash register would also help the Feds pay down this debt. Did you know the underground economy in the US is one trillion dollars.
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Old 01-25-2012, 01:10 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: the nation's middle class is at risk

When everyone in America is starving in the freezing dark, BOTH sides will declare victory.
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Old 01-25-2012, 01:10 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: the nation's middle class is at risk

No, but I will read it.
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Old 01-25-2012, 01:16 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: the nation's middle class is at risk

By and large tax policy has little bearing on a nation's economic health. Investment, education and what you generally DO with that revenue is what matters. In either case, whatever the Federal government gives back the State government takes back. Always.
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Old 01-25-2012, 01:19 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: the nation's middle class is at risk

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Originally Posted by *Dean* View Post
The phrase I noticed most repeated was that we simply don't have the workforce here - that we don't have the technologically skilled people to do the jobs.

How can that be true? And how do you fix it?

Hmmm....
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Old 01-25-2012, 01:20 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: the nation's middle class is at risk

Just read it. It only makes sense. I have heard stories like the Apple story for several years.

Step one: dump the income tax
Step two: dump stupid regulations that slow down companies operating in the US.
Step three: make every school in the United States tech based so students are ready for these jobs.
Step four: End all the give aways. Americans need to stop looking for hand outs and get a job.
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Old 01-25-2012, 01:26 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: the nation's middle class is at risk

For one thing Apple builds things in China because of the logistical complexity of all the components which go into building it which are also built in China. Were Apple to move iPhone assembly here, they'd have a logistical nightmare trying to get all the components that go into them here as well. Moreover, China now graduates more engineers than the US. That train is rapidly leaving the station and soon the US will have nothing to offer the supply side in terms of design or engineering either. The US decided it wanted to become an economy of consumers who do nothing but sell insurance to one another. Ok, declare victory and go home.
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Old 01-25-2012, 01:27 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Default Re: the nation's middle class is at risk

I think the US spends more per student than any other country in the world. I may be wrong, check it out.
Investment, true but there also has to be a return on an investment. Crazy regulations and poor tax policy would have a negitive effect on the return on investment. If your talking about investing in common infrustructure that would be different. I am all for that.
Investment and education are very important, but good common sense tax policy is also very important.
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Old 01-25-2012, 01:46 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Default Re: the nation's middle class is at risk

You could tax people zero and the so called "job creators" would ship the money overseas anyway where it would be put to better use. Why? Because the US really doesn't 'make' much stuff anymore. It makes intangibles like movies and software and financial derivatives and bond debt. So were the 'captains of industry' taxed zero or even less than zero (there are few Fortune 50 companies which have a BELOW zero tax rate) they would simply, just as they do now, build factories in Africa or India or China and continue on.

BTW what do you think happens when Castro dies and Cuba decides to enter the 21st century? What happens is Nike and such put up factories overnight to make shoes at the same 50 cents an hour those people make today. It will make precisely no change in their lives except that they can now elect another dictator who will nationalize the next batch of industries and enslave them anew.
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Old 01-25-2012, 01:52 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Default Re: the nation's middle class is at risk

Quote:
Originally Posted by *Dean* View Post
What ever happened to DARPA? A lot of the new industries, etc came out of there or DARPA set the seeds in the ground for them to grow
DARPA still exists albeit they focus less on the "D" and more on the ARPA than they used to.

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The issue is that in a generation the US will be at best, second rate in terms of science and engineering expertise. We still have the best hard science universities in the world but current course and speed, South Korea, China and Israel will surpass us. By the time any high school student from any of those 3 countries graduates, they've spent at least 2 full YEARS more in class than American students.

Wouldn't it be ironic if in 30 years all the call centers are in the
US? Because that's likely to happen.
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Old 01-25-2012, 02:03 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Default Re: the nation's middle class is at risk

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You are looking at this threw the lense of a corporation. I just think if Americans took home their gross pay vs thier net, it would change the landscape.

If Apple wants to continue to import thier finished product from China let them. The difference will be the Apple finished product will be taxed at the cash register "national sales tax"
At least at this point The United States is collecting some tax from Chinese cheap labor.
I just think a national sales tax is the way to go.
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Old 01-25-2012, 02:36 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Default Re: the nation's middle class is at risk

Everything said last night was so common sense and sooooo last year. The fact that things are being said now makes me wanna say, "Well, duh!"
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