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Old 02-11-2012, 04:23 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Default Re: I just got thrown off of a forum...

i have always said, you want to see some of the biggest groups of hypocrites, go to church.
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Old 02-11-2012, 04:29 PM   #17 (permalink)
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i have always said, you want to see some of the biggest groups of hypocrites, go to church.
Or my grandparents' house.

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Old 02-11-2012, 05:34 PM   #18 (permalink)
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SA basically said they were mocking and ridiculing her. That is 180 degrees from the tenants of Christianity. They did exactly the wrong thing.

Sorry but that is not being defensive.

Question with boldness is my motto. If your faith and doctrine is sound then it should not only withstand the questioning but should be a strong witness to your faith.

What they did is make their faith look bad.

After obtaining a Masters in Theology from seminary; many in authority in the faith portrayed the same things that SA sees and as a result left me feeling just like her in many ways.
No argument from me on any point. My post was only to say think of the other side, and I often do that without saying what someone does is right or wrong.
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Old 02-11-2012, 05:38 PM   #19 (permalink)
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i have always said, you want to see some of the biggest groups of hypocrites, go to church.
Interesting though, is it possible to call someone a hypocrite without becoming one when you do that? Are there any of us (Christian or otherwise) with no inconsistencies?

Christians should be very familiar with the fact that they are sinners (I saw that being joked about earlier). That's central to the Christian faith. In the Christian faith, someone has to acknowledge that they are a sinner before they can acknowledge that they need salvation, and thus, before putting their faith in God for that salvation.
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Old 02-11-2012, 05:42 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Default Re: I just got thrown off of a forum...

Most of the Christians that I know parade around like they are the moral lighthouse of society. And then they get caught with their pants down and everyone is shocked.

I don't pretend to be something I'm not. I'm sure on occasion I am a hypocrit, but for the most part, I just am what I am.
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Old 02-11-2012, 05:51 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Most of the Christians that I know parade around like they are the moral lighthouse of society. And then they get caught with their pants down and everyone is shocked.

I don't pretend to be something I'm not. I'm sure on occasion I am a hypocrit, but for the most part, I just am what I am.
So from the other side: A person is supposed to be different from how they were before when they become a Christian. There are several theological terms for this regeneration. It is part of the Christian beliefs that God makes them into a new creation when they reach out to Him in Faith. However; in most denominations, nobody teaches that they are ever going to be perfect. It is supposed to be a journey, and one where each person hopes to get closer to God, and thus more righteous as they go.

Sure, that can be abused, and nobody is going to ever have that completely figured out. That's part of the journey. Some of them irritate me as well. I'm sure I irritate some of them. Contrary to popular belief, outside of the basics of salvation, there can be, and is debate among Christians about what is right in a lot of these areas. There are even examples of this, and examples of being tolerant of differences in the Bible.

I'm not going to claim I have it all figured out. I'm on my journey as well, and as I alluded to before, going through the mid-life caused me to re-evaluate a lot of things on this journey. (Truthfully, I even questioned whether or not there was a God for some time ... that's a different story, and one that will take a while to write, though)

I hope I don't make you feel like I'm sitting in judgement - that's not my place. I do have things that are expected of me if I'm going to continue on the journey, though. And I do enjoy talking with you about it if you will keep asking me questions, too. I'm not claiming to be the end-all authority, but I'm pretty familiar with Christianity, and I will try to answer honestly both in what they believe, and in some of the struggles we all have.
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Old 02-11-2012, 05:51 PM   #22 (permalink)
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SA how you managed to get kicked off a forum is beyond me. Of all the people in the entire world you're the last person I can see getting kicked off of a forum!

I'm sorry but it's really funny!

If you made it two hours I think I might have lasted two seconds.
It really IS kinda , my husband & me sure laughed about it when he got home, but I got to be honest, when I was getting those replies they made me feel like sh** and I was crying about it ! I seen your thread about needing to vent & I just thought... ME TOO !!

To their defense... I know one of the reasons I was canned.... cause it says in their forum rules which someone immediately pointed out to me coldly to read - that non-christians are pretty much not welcome , the forum is strictly for believers and if others want to post, they are required to send a pm to the "oversight board" - which I immediately did. I am sure my blatent thread heading won me no favors - kinda like a gay man wanting to go sit within a meeting of the Boy scouts and ask questions. I didn't realize at the time how dumb that was! Ha ha

Now I did give a short version of my story on there - how I was once repressed but have come out of that, and how I was no longer a christian, went on to explain I am in a dilemma and wanted to get insight from their point of view, I felt I had a "work with me attitude" but they did not see it that way at all. Told them I may want to write a book someday, or a blog on this issue and I do NOT want to tick off the church. I meant every word of that , but they jumped on me having an "agenda" - they assumed immediately I was coming there as the devil or something, one referred the term "Evangelical Atheism" .

It would have been MAJOR different if I came there to talk about sex WITHIN marraige -like most do - that would have been terribly permissable -no judgement....My questions were in the pre-marital realm, always more sticky... as everything outside of marriage is LUST...WRONG... EVIL .... SINFUL and in need of repentence. I am sorry, I have grave issues with that , thier way of thinking, and they sure as hell wasn't willing to help me out! They slammed that door and pretty quickly too!

Came home from a party, thought I would check there again , not sure if I am banned, but I got a pm from the Oversight board :

Give me your opinion please..... Cold or Christlike ?? - (I want to point out I was "baiting" noone and I never even hinted to a soul they were repressed, I only said I WAS....so I feel those were wrongly spoken of me...

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I moved your thread asking about being shunned here because you are not a Christian off the boards.

Your profile indicates that you have been a member here since 2009, and I find it very odd that in all that time you did not take the time to read our board rules, but instead just posted a thread baiting our members and talking about how repressed we are. Obviously, you have not really paid any attention to what this ministry is all about. You even have several older posts dating back to when you first joined, so I find it suspicious that you seem to be so "innocent" of what we stand for at TMB.

Our boards exist to talk about the beauty of sexuality within Christian marriages, and under no circumstances do we tolerate viewpoints of a non-Christian nature. You are free to read and learn more, but you are not free to post any non-Christian ideas or teachings, especially since you have now "outed" yourself as an unbeliever.

I am very sorry that you have "lost your faith," and my prayer is that the Lord will work on your heart and that you will open your eyes to the reality of His love. Perhaps, since at least one of your children is a Christian, you would do well to really listen to them and open your heart back up to Jesus. There is love and forgiveness there that you desperately need, even if you do not believe it right now
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Old 02-11-2012, 05:56 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I do understand what the "evangelical atheist" comment is. It looks like they intended the group to be exclusive instead of an outreach.

I'm sorry you got treated that way.
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Old 02-11-2012, 06:05 PM   #24 (permalink)
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I hope I don't make you feel like I'm sitting in judgement - that's not my place. I do have things that are expected of me if I'm going to continue on the journey, though. And I do enjoy talking with you about it if you will keep asking me questions, too. I'm not claiming to be the end-all authority, but I'm pretty familiar with Christianity, and I will try to answer honestly both in what they believe, and in some of the struggles we all have.
Ok, shy Guy, I want your view then, you seem like a more tolerant Christian who is striving to live rightly... this is probably what I was hoping to find there ... but sadly did not.

What are your views about Pre-marital sex ?? DO you feel every man & women should strive to be a virgin until their wedding day, how far can they go with their hands ... and still feel like they are living and honoring GOD? Noone goes here, noone asks these questions, it is NOTHING or you have sinned.. (LUSTED).... repent. Isn't there some middle ground ??

This is what I wanted from that forum but they JUMPED me and threw me in the fire !
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Old 02-11-2012, 06:23 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I think it's funny. I mean I'm sorry you got kicked off but consider the source and don't worry about it. Around here most Christians (and I'm one) are the most judgemental people. This didn't surprise me at all.
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Old 02-11-2012, 06:30 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Ok, shy Guy, I want your view then, you seem like a more tolerant Christian who is striving to live rightly... this is probably what I was hoping to find there ... but sadly did not.

What are your views about Pre-marital sex ?? DO you feel every man & women should strive to be a virgin until their wedding day, how far can they go with their hands ... and still feel like they are living and honoring GOD? Noone goes here, noone asks these questions, it is NOTHING or you have sinned.. (LUSTED).... repent. Isn't there some middle ground ??

This is what I wanted from that forum but they JUMPED me and threw me in the fire !
You're really going to put me on the spot, aren't you .

NP. Yes, that's an honest question. I'll give the best answer I can.

First, I'm going to disagree with what most Christians think about when someone gets married. A wedding is a tradition we have today, but there is nothing in the Bible that requires the type of wedding we are familiar with today. As a matter of fact, big wedding celebrations in many periods and times were something only the rich did. In poorer families, it was an arrangement made between two families, and as soon as the deal was done, they were married. I'm sure that's nobody romantic idea, though .

The best I can understand, a couple is considered married when they have met the legal requirements wherever they live. In a lot of places over the years, the tradition of the wedding, witnesses, etc. has become a legal canonization of a tradition.

In regards to what is allowed: Most Christians believe that sex is reserved to be strictly between husband and wife. This is how I have taught it in our house as well. This was part of the law in the old testament, and the tradition was brought forward. This was also part of the picture of the wedding in heaven and the Bride (being the Church) in Revelation. That makes an interesting illustration.

So far as "How far can I go?" I don't usually think of it that way, but rather, "What should I be doing?" I think a couple should be able to court, and some physical contact is expected during that time. I would fully expect a couple in courtship to kiss, for example. I think most Christians will agree with this. When it comes to touching or fondling, then I think they are most times doing this to lead to sex, or to see how close they can get before sinning, and I think in two people who are full or hormones with a perfect opportunity, that leads to intercourse. I think if they don't want that to happen, they they need to stay away from that temptation. I think most Christians will agree with me in that as well. Some will be a little more focused on setting up the rules and boundaries, but I'd rather stay with the principle. So if we get into "How far up her leg can his hand go?" I don't really have a generally applicable answer because I don't see that as the objective of any guidelines.

On lust, the only thing I can think of that deals specifically with this was when Jesus was getting after the Pharisees and religious leaders of his day on their legalism and he chided them because they believed where it was written "You shall not committ adultery," but apparently thought nothing of looking lustfully after a woman. He told them they had already committed adultery in their hearts. I think the point here was that they were looking for a way to call themselves righteous before God, and Jesus was pointing out that regardless of what they thought, they could not present themselves as righteous before God on their own merits. I think some Christians will agree with me here, and some will debate with me on whether or not that was the real meaning behind Jesus' words.

It seems to me that from beginning to end, family is very important in the Bible. It was supposed to be a team for support in every form from physical sustenance to emotional support. There are a lot of laws given around family, and some of them may be shocking, but it was to make sure that the family members were supported. I think this is the basis for teaching about the family. Obviously, I think God invented sex (as my mother always said) and that He thinks it was a good idea. Husbands and wives are never forbidden to have full sexual expression anywhere in the Bible.

Did that answer the question? If not, then tell me where I'm not answering it, and I'll try it again .

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Old 02-11-2012, 06:36 PM   #27 (permalink)
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You know I like the "idea" of waiting till getting married until having sex but my practical side thinks how would that work?
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Old 02-11-2012, 06:47 PM   #28 (permalink)
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You know I like the "idea" of waiting till getting married until having sex but my practical side thinks how would that work?
I'm glad I went back and saw that you edited that. Still, your original version is valid.

My family is really the only family I have experience with. I know in the case of my wife and me, I don't think we were repressed. We definitely had a lot to learn. I'm glad I learned with her.

I was challenged on another thread in another forum the other day, so I called my two adult daughters to ask them again about their views on sex and the way I taught it. I'm actually pretty pleased with what I heard. My younger daughter is getting married next month, so I was particularly interested to hear her views. She and her BF do not live together. You could say that I wouldn't know if they had sex or not, and you'd be right - I don't know. I don't think they have because she is very affixed on a study she found that showed a higher divorce rate among people that have sex before marriage. I've found a similar study, but the one I found doesn't say exactly what she tells me the one she found said. It's still relevant, though. In my younger daughter in particular, she is very much looking forward to her wedding night and her honeymoon, and from all she would share, I think what she is looking forward to is very healthy. She fully understands she's going to have a lot to learn, but she is looking forward to it. Her background: She's been a softball player throughout school including in college. She has graduated from college, both she and her fiance are employed, and they think it is time to begin their marriage. (EDIT: She and her fiance have been dating for a little over 3 years. They met in college.)

My family is the only ones I know about first hand (understanding that I can't really know about my daughters first hand - just what they will tell me). I taught sex in a very positive light when they were growing up, and if you read much of what I write here, you can probably guess that I didn't use vague terms.

So that what I can tell you about it from our perspective.
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Old 02-11-2012, 06:53 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Did that answer the question? If not, then tell me where I'm not answering it, and I'll try it again .
I know you are trying Shy Guy... but No, to be honest, didn't really answer my question..... It seems your view is.. kissing is fine... if you start fondling --it's wrong, but you didn't say it was WRONG, ...you assumed that it would lead to sex. Why do we assume this? Because we are taught this (that is my answer)... It doesn't have too .

Well I can tell you, and I likely sound like a freak in being honest about it but me & mine touched for 8 yrs without it leading to intercourse, my boundaries were firm , and deep down I felt good about that. . And you know what....it kept us emotionally connected, it kept us from burning with lust and we STILL had something that we considered "sacred" to give each other on our Wedding Day.

But My lord you present that on a Christian forum , you are Lucifer in the flesh.

Those LUST scriptures will suck any pleasure out of even being ALIVE. Sure marriage is Grand... but should kids JUMP to get married just so they don't burn with LUST.

It's rediculous!
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Old 02-11-2012, 07:05 PM   #30 (permalink)
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SA, I have seen your follow up. I will answer. Right now, I have an evening planned with my wife and need to go, so it will probably not be today. I have a travel day tomorrow, so tomorrow evening will probably be the earliest I can get to the answer. I will answer, though.
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