I need to check out that website. I wonder what their advice would be to me if I go on there and tell them about my marital troubles with my Christian wife and her mother (the Minister). I wouldn't be so honest to tell them that I have left christianity over it. I would really like to hear what they have to say, but it would really serve no purpose because I know what they would say - that my wife and her mother are NOT christians. No s**t, I already know that (or maybe they are what christianity really stands for - I'm not bitter ).
It would be easy for them to throw someone under the bus that they have never met, but what makes me disgusted with the whole thing is how some of the christians in our life have reacted to everything that has gone on. Yes there are a few who are disgusted with my wife, but just as many if not more who fully support (enable) my wife even though she is acting in ways completely outside how a christian should act. What about being our brother's keeper? I'm just disgusted with the whole religion because there is ZERO consistency in it and when most christians are faced with a decision to make about what is right or wrong it seems that they seldom follow what they are taught in the bible. Well then what's the point of going through the motions? If the path you follow leads you to this then what point is there in following the path? Time to seek a different path.
Simplyamorous, I allow my kids to go to youth group also even though I no longer consider myself a christian, so I know where you are coming from. Although the youth group at our old church really has nothing to do with the bible or the Abrahamic god so I don't really have to worry about them becoming an evangelical bible thumper going there, it's pretty much a godless social club. I could tell you guys stories about that place and the people who go there. Sad really.
And the disagreement up thread about Christianity and Islam being the only evangelical religions, I have to agree. They are extremely evangelical. Name another religion that is so aggressive or feels it has some kind of a mandate to convert people, sometimes with violence. Of the two I would actually consider Christianity to be the least tolerant of other religions. Why? Well Islam considers Jesus to be a prophet of god and Muslims have a great deal of respect for him. They don't, however, believe he is the son of god. Christians, on the other hand, ridicule Mohammed and claim he is a false prophet and even "of the devil" and make fun of and ridicule Allah. Don't they even know that Allah and the Christian god and the same? They worship the same god as the Muslims and the Jews. Most Christians will not accept this.
Personally I don't think Christianity was ever meant to be. Assuming Jesus was a real person, I think he was trying to teach Jews to be better people (not saying that they were bad), not create a new religion. I read a lot about religions. Right now I'm starting to explore Buddhism (although it isn't really a religion) and have read some interesting things about Jesus. A lot of Buddhist believe that Jesus was a Buddhist. Supposedly he left Israel when he was about 13 and traveled to northern India where he traveled around until he eventually began studying Buddhism at a monastery near the Indian-Tibetan border. When he was about 29 he left and went back to Israel an began teaching a different way, and he wasn't well received. After his crucifixion he was nursed back to health an eventually traveled back to Kashmir where he lived until he was over 80 years old. In that area in northern India where this took place it is generally accepted as fact. There is even a shrine there that is supposed to be the burial place of Jesus. Very interesting. Some of his teachings are very Buddhist like.
And the statement above about Christians being the victims of oppression, Christians haven't been the victims of oppression since the Roman Emperor Constantine converted to Christianity around 312 CE. That's when it all changed and Christianity became the aggressor, so I wish they would stop always talking about Christians being persecuted and fed to the lions. They have done a lot worse since then.
Oh, SA! I sometimes go out to themarriagebed.com forum and read through the posts. I haven't been out there for a month or so, so I must have missed all of the fireworks!
I haven't had time to read through all of the posts in this thread, but generally what always strikes me about religion discussion and Christians is that *religion* is made up of *people* who are imperfect - they sin, they are hyprocrits just as much as they may love or be giving. *Religion* is a man-made framework that has been put around something that is much grander, something that is not really containable.
I try and keep it in perspective, in that while I may NOT agree with the *religion*, I do agree with the grand, uncontainable, almost incomprehensible thing that it is trying to frame. It's kind of like that saying "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" - well don't throw away believing in God because of all of the 'clutter' and 'hypocrisy' that PEOPLE bring to it.
Oh - and good job on getting tossed. Seriously, I mean it. I think some of the people on that forum need to get shaken up a bit.
Oh, SA! I sometimes go out to themarriagebed.com forum and read through the posts. I haven't been out there for a month or so, so I must have missed all of the fireworks!
Well the fireworks only lasted 2 hours and I was groveling for them to tell me how to delete my own thread, trying to be kind enough to not bother their holiness anymore. I shouldn' let others of faith reduce me to that, but It was like entering a lion's den, I went there feeling I might be treated with some respect... the joke was on me. But to their credit , it does say in their forum rules if you are not a christian, that you need to get approved to post, so by being so upfront, I MADE myself a target immediately. It still would be nice if people took the time to ask a few questions, try to gauge the situation before they JUMP.
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I haven't had time to read through all of the posts in this thread, but generally what always strikes me about religion discussion and Christians is that *religion* is made up of *people* who are imperfect - they sin, they are hyprocrits just as much as they may love or be giving.
I doubt they would even say they are perfect or righteous, no... it is more the willingness to say "Look I am slime and blood had to be shed for me"- if they can't get that out of you, you can't be in the club! You simply must admit you are wretched, unworthy & deserving of hell....then "you're good!"
But I guess any club is similar, isn't it...you gotta THINK like them...if you don't you better shut your mouth! I believe such rules is why most people just hide who they really are anyway... just to "belong", to feel accepted. I don't feel being accepted is worth a hill of beans if you are not really demonstrating who you are, there is no reward in that...for me. I'd rather be canned, told off even.
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*Religion* is a man-made framework that has been put around something that is much grander, something that is not really containable.
I love this, a good way to explain it......God is not containable.
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I try and keep it in perspective, in that while I may NOT agree with the *religion*, I do agree with the grand, uncontainable, almost incomprehensible thing that it is trying to frame. It's kind of like that saying "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" - well don't throw away believing in God because of all of the 'clutter' and 'hypocrisy' that PEOPLE bring to it.
I do believe in God, as many people do ....It seems anytime I raise my voice to my disagreements with "the fundamental faith" of Christianity, others feel I lost it over hypocrites...not the case. I know more who are wonderful than any that has hurt me personally. It is over theology , over doctrines, over creeds....not people. I see Good people in every walk of life, the fact I do that --is more of the issue FOR THEM -against me ! Kinda rediculous when you think about it.
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Oh - and good job on getting tossed. Seriously, I mean it. I think some of the people on that forum need to get shaken up a bit.
I kinda wonder why YOU say this Enchantment, do you also find the atmosphere "too much" ? I seriously doubt I shook anyone up over there, as it goes many times, they felt "justified" in their replies.
I usually think, "I've been thrown out of better places."
What about the whole thing is bothering you?
No one can hardly be surprised a bunch of holier-than-thou Christians don't want to listen to reasoning or another point of view.
They can't handle it.
I once had lunch with a very nice pastor. We got on parts of the Bible I disagreed with. I told him I had a problem with Genesis, that if there are stars that a million lightyears away, by definition, the universe has to be AT LEAST a million years old.
(this doesn't even get into the idea that if God is making it seem like it's a million light years away. . .then why would God be an illusionist with our universe - an interesting philosophical question. . .)
It took a million years for that twinkle of light to reach our eyes.
Well, I could see the whole idea left the poor man uncomfortable and gee, I hate to do that.
Isn't better to just let these people just bask in their "small world."?
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And maybe I seem a bit confused. . .but maybe, I got you pegged! Ha! Don't know what to do about those tossed salad and scrambled eggs. . .they're posting again. Scannerguard has left the building.
I kinda wonder why YOU say this Enchantment, do you also find the atmosphere "too much" ? I seriously doubt I shook anyone up over there, as it goes many times, they felt "justified" in their replies.
Well, I've cruised through their forum a number of times - haven't bothered joining or posting. I guess there was just an atmosphere there that didn't particularly appeal to me for some reason - one that I don't feel over here in TAM land - which is why I keep coming back here.
I usually think, "I've been thrown out of better places."
What about the whole thing is bothering you?
No one can hardly be surprised a bunch of holier-than-thou Christians don't want to listen to reasoning or another point of view.
They can't handle it.
Isn't better to just let these people just bask in their "small world."?
Oh my, I don't want to sound angry over it. I hope I am not coming off that way, we had a hearty laugh about it -when my husband came home that day... The way I express myself always sounds intense I guess.
I am happy... really, on top of the world. ... but yeah, the issue kinda gets under my skin from time to time....probably because I still go to church, most of my friends ARE Christians....probably my biggest hurts in life have been by the hands of this type, shaming me for my feeling different, standing over in judgement -cause I wasn't a cardboard copy of them. WHen it happens, It still takes me by surprise, am I too stupid to learn...... I guess I hate to be "closed down" based on prejudice of religion. I try never to do that to others , so when it happens to me, yeah, it bugs me.
NO worry Scanner, I am happy ! Takes a crapload more than this to get me down.
I too call myself a Christian. But a lot of things made me question my faith. Most of those things that bothered me was those people that judge you. That and things that are made up by agenda driven people that claim to know the bible. If there is a god like I believe, then I think a lot of Christians are going to be shocked where they are going when they die. I too have found your posts very useful. From what I can tell you probably live your life better then a lot of so called Christians. Many of them probably do more sinning then you. Thanks for your posts SA.
Wow, appreciate your words CrazyGuy... I feel there is alot of people like yourself sitting in the church pew ...has questions & feels as you do about the judging you see & feel around you. You are so not alone by any means - your type are the kind I do love to befriend.
.... and I enjoy your posts too LadyFrog. I think you sound alot like me, a little of our stories anyway. SimplySatan is exactly how I was perceived that fine morning. Ha ha
Too many "thought crimes" on that forum for me, I doubt I will ever venture there again... I've tried alot of forums in my time, most don't have too much to sink your teeth into--too much joking or horsing around for my tastes or too loose of living by far.... then we have the other side... TOO PIOUS & restricted....TAM , by far, allows you to be who you are , speak how you feel and for the most part , can handle others views like a melting pot.... while not being shunned for our differences . I have a great appreciation for that type of tolerance.
Sometimes I think my comments rub people the wrong way. I have a clear and simple way at looking at most things and I post what I think. Sometimes I put things in a crude way, that's just me. As a Christian I can tell you that Jesus himself went to the "sinners" prostitutes ect to save them. Buy them kicking you off there board they are doing exactly the opposite of what Jesus would have done.
I myself have good friends from all walks of life, rich to poor. Some did hard time. I try not to judge, that's not my job. I simply hang around people that give me respect and I respect them back. Respect does not mean I myself approve of there actions though. People can disagree but still be civilized.
It's the "Christians" that scream from the mountain top at every opportunity how "righteous" they are that are the worst of the worst.
The ones that live it, but don't talk it are the true believers.
It's that.... "But when you give ....don't let your left hand know what your right hand is doing" (Matt 6:3)... and ...."Let another praise you, and not your own mouth; someone else, and not your own lips".... (Prov 27:2)
I am wondering if you are Sinister ...Sinnister !?
Sometimes I think my comments rub people the wrong way. I have a clear and simple way at looking at most things and I post what I think. Sometimes I put things in a crude way, that's just me. As a Christian I can tell you that Jesus himself went to the "sinners" prostitutes ect to save them. Buy them kicking you off there board they are doing exactly the opposite of what Jesus would have done.
Your way does not offend me at all, I am very similar to you, and I would much rather hang with the sinners, as long as they are "safe' that is, mental sins do not bother me, I wouldn't want to hang with anyone who was physically dangerous though, stalkerish, or might rob or hurt my family in any way.
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I myself have good friends from all walks of life, rich to poor. Some did hard time. I try not to judge, that's not my job. I simply hang around people that give me respect and I respect them back. Respect does not mean I myself approve of there actions though. People can disagree but still be civilized.
We are like this also, though no friends who has done hard time.
In my youth , I got to see a taste of how the other half lives though... My mother married a severe alcoholic (crazy as this sounds , she never drank)... moved to another state...big city, very very ROUGH life... they used to take in prostitutes off the street , homeless men, her husband had a heart of pure GOLD for the destitude, he loved to cook for people too when he wasn't too drunk... the stories she has shared with me reduce me to tears, I've written a # of them down.... I lived with them for a month when I was 15. IN that month, they did not take anyone in. My safety was the main thing.
I do not have a heart like that. I would fear for my own life. Once a drunken neighbor took a sickle to my mother, he jumped in front of her, saving her life. I met the prostitue neighbor who killed her 1st husband because of abuse, she served time.
I have had arguments with Christians who would tell me that my step father will not be in heaven because he was an Alcoholic...I wanted to tare into them.. ...He nursed this one homeless man back to health after being attacked by sea gulls getting chicken out of a dumspter, open sores on his arms from this...(I know how bad this sounds !!)...
He loved people from the heart, even though he was messed up himself, he was not looking for any gain. He had great compassion, he has been ripped off, beat up and still he welcomed the poorest society has. I guess one could say he was STUPID, I don't know, but he survived it all....so did my mother. Once they even had a murderer living with them! Yikes !
In my lifetime, I have never met a man who had that depth of care to open his own home.... He LIVED the words of Jesus... most only talk it. Every time I hear this song, I think of my step father... He Ain't Heavy, He's My Brother ....and tear up. I know why I am moved like that...it was the love he had for those that society would throw away or spit at.
I try not to judge either. But it does creep in -depending, I think back to what I witnessed in my youth..... I look at the heart more than anything else, never how rich or poor someone is.
But I do not have a heart like my step father...that was above & beyond the norm.
LadyFrogFlyAway said: think we have much in common also..if I'm correct we've been married about the same length of time, twenty years?...and we both had an *awakening* in regards to our marriages...yours sexual and mine emotional.
Speaking of too much horsing around and judging, please don't go to the "thong" thread in the ladies lounge. Guilty
We've been married 22 yrs (together for 30 total- met him when I was 15). Yes, both of us.... have been "awakened"....to the betterment of our marrriages.
Mine was very sexual , like a Niagra Falls effect... I feel alot of this was due to being repressed for most of my marraige .... not sure how else to make sense of it ....it was also very emotional for me .... as I was taking my good husband for granted for many years ... just busy with many things....he was always there, always accessible, always loving, but I had my mind going in many directions.
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I too rub some people the wrong way, I think. I tend to be a bit dogmatic (something I have to watch) and I'm blunt and have a very warped sense of humor. Something others don't find funny at all will set me off.
I had someone the other day say to me that I don't act my age, to which I replied, "Why should I? I don't even want to BE my age!" Little kids are totally awesome...so spontaneous, creative and guileless.
Maturity...now what fun is there in that?
I understand the blunt temptation ....I have toned it down some from my youth.... gained some grace in this area...... one of my best friends told me I used to intimidate her... I had no idea! When I am being truly myself , letting go in communication...... I have gotten a number of looks like this... almost always in a GOOD way though..... ...... ... Usually opens conversations WIDE OPEN and we have a good time with it. So yeah, it is FUN to be and FEEL young at heart !! . If I had to give an example of my personality...it is something like PINK...
.....at least how she is in her interviews.... I like to laugh hard, make fun of stuff... pretty open about my own demons... I can be humble, say I suck at stuff, debate, downright uncooth at times...and enjoy every minute of it ....love a little feisty banter! But then I can be sweet too, and found to be very respectful... I guess I wear many hats...and I enjoy them all.
We need to be who we are ....Or what is it worth at the end of the day! Right ?
Love her attitude and confidence. She does not hide her problems and at the same time is not ashamed of who she is. Her performance at the Grammy's was incredible. Glitter In The Air (GRAMMYs on CBS) by P!nk She is somewhat flat chested but she wore that skimpy outfit that does not leave much to the imagination. She certainly has enough money to get a boob job but she did not get one. It is so refreshing to see a celebrity willing to be real and not have to go under the knife and show that you can be happy with yourself. On top of that she actually has talent and nerve to perform like she did in the air.
In my line of work many of my customers tend to be people that have lots of money. I often go to an area in a major city that is nothing but multi million dollar condos. I normally park my service van at a park that is close. There are a bunch of homeless people with no place to go that stay at this park. So yeah, I run into all type of people. One of my coworkers is one of those people that does not have much of anything. Despite this he would take the shirt off his own back to help you out. He is older then me and lived a rough life. When he was young he did a bunch of stupid things. Got caught running drugs. Did years in both state and federal prisons. But he did his time and has been one of those friends that stick by you when the crap hits the fan. He always jokes with me that if I commit a crime make sure it is a federal offense. Fed time is much more easy then state time. Anyway he is a really nice older guy today with a strange sense of humor. In matter of fact when I upgraded my service van I donated my old van to him because he had no car at all. He has been running my old van for years now.
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Re: I just got thrown off of a forum... 
).
I believe such rules is why most people just hide who they really are anyway... just to "belong", to feel accepted. I don't feel being accepted is worth a hill of beans if you are not really demonstrating who you are, there is no reward in that...for me. I'd rather be canned, told off even. 
Takes a crapload more than this to get me down.
...... 
... Usually opens conversations WIDE OPEN and we have a good time with it. So yeah, it is FUN to be and FEEL young at heart !! . If I had to give an example of my personality...it is something like PINK...
