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Old 02-22-2012, 10:16 PM   #31 (permalink)
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First off, may I adjust your lingo? NOBODY is "pro-abortion". Your wording of "anti-abortion" means that somebody must be for it and you will find none. Abortion isn't something that any woman wants to face. Period.
Secondly, you may not know anybody in real life who wants to control a womans body, but they sure are voting in droves....now aren't they? If Santorum and his ilk didn't hit home to the "values" of America, he would have been dead in the water months ago. The fact is, he DOES represent what many Americans feel and that is that a woman who has sex and gets pregnant DESERVES to carry the child to term, regardless if that is what she wants. It IS a punishment to her and she must face it day in and day out. Hester Pryne all over again. He also doesn't seem to care much about the health of the mother in carrying the child. In fact, he has said the "goal" is to save the child. Odd coming from a man whose WIFE had an abortion to save her OWN life, wouldn't you say?
Simply put, while you may not find people in your life who openly express these things, there are plenty of idiots who are voting for this guy. Voting to have a womans body be a ward of the State and voting to have men dictate what a woman can and can not do with her reproductive self.
A woman has the choice to either have sex or not. If she chooses to have sex she accepts the consequences. Once pregnant she now has certain responsibilities to this other human child.

The man also has a choice, and if he fathers a child he has responsibilities to the child.

You see the anti-abortion position as men who want to control your right to choose what to do with your body. I think most of the anti-abortion crowd would say you have the choice when you choose to have sex, at which point you accept the responsibility for any child conceived.
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:03 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Default Re: Democratic seeks to ban vasectomies

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I think abortion should only come into play in a case of rape, or something like that. If a woman chooses to have consensual sex with another man, then I agree she must accept the consequences, and a man who fathered that baby should have a say in the matter. I don't think this is about controlling a woman's body, but don't have sex and then become surprised you already have 3 kids that you can't afford to care for and then want to bug the baby daddy for money. Be responsible when it comes to sex, not being a sl**.
Wow. Well if a woman should be forced to carry a fetus to term, the father should be forced to marry her and create a two parent household. Problem solved.
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:04 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Default Re: Democratic seeks to ban vasectomies

Do you think men should be allowed to sue a woman to carry the baby to term so then he, in turn, can have her sign over all rights of the child to him?

It's his child too. What if he wants the baby and she doesn't?

Just a thought.
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:05 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Default Re: Democratic seeks to ban vasectomies

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A woman has the choice to either have sex or not. If she chooses to have sex she accepts the consequences. Once pregnant she now has certain responsibilities to this other human child.

The man also has a choice, and if he fathers a child he has responsibilities to the child.

You see the anti-abortion position as men who want to control your right to choose what to do with your body. I think most of the anti-abortion crowd would say you have the choice when you choose to have sex, at which point you accept the responsibility for any child conceived.
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So no abortion under any circumstances, right?
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:06 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Default Re: Democratic seeks to ban vasectomies

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I think abortion should only come into play in a case of rape, or something like that. If a woman chooses to have consensual sex with another man, then I agree she must accept the consequences, and a man who fathered that baby should have a say in the matter. I don't think this is about controlling a woman's body, but don't have sex and then become surprised you already have 3 kids that you can't afford to care for and then want to bug the baby daddy for money. Be responsible when it comes to sex, not being a sl**.
Judge much?

Not every woman who has an abortion is a sl*t. Not every woman who has an abortion has multiple children that she can't afford. Not every woman who has an abortion takes it lightly, nor does every woman not take precautions to prevent said pregancy.

Shet happens. Stop being so judgmental. it's easy for men to say what should be done because they will NEVER have to make that choice.
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:12 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Default Re: Democratic seeks to ban vasectomies

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Do you think men should be allowed to sue a woman to carry the baby to term so then he, in turn, can have her sign over all rights of the child to him?

It's his child too. What if he wants the baby and she doesn't?

Just a thought.
No more than I should have the right to keep a man on life support so I can harvest his sperm. The answer is no. Nobody has the "right" to govern what another person does with their own body.
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:15 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Default Re: Democratic seeks to ban vasectomies

But the baby is not the woman's body. lol.

i don't really care either way. Not my problem. i wouldn't have an abortion (my two surprises at weird times are proof). I'm just in a bad mood and want to argue
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:24 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Default Re: Democratic seeks to ban vasectomies

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But the baby is not the woman's body. lol.

i don't really care either way. Not my problem. i wouldn't have an abortion (my two surprises at weird times are proof). I'm just in a bad mood and want to argue
I had an unexpected pregnancy at a young age. Thought I would have an abortion but could not. Just couldn't. I am happy with my decision and my 19 year old is a wonderful man.
Having said that, I would never in a million years tell another woman she shouldn't have the choice I did but I'm a sl@t.
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Old 02-22-2012, 11:50 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Default Re: Democratic seeks to ban vasectomies

OneMan,
Reread what you wrote. You also went so far as to say that the mother shouldn't "bug the baby daddy for money". By your standards, no choice is made for you. You decide your own paternity by your actions.....every time you pull down your pants, so stop complaining then saying us women make the choice for you. You can't have it both ways.
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Old 02-23-2012, 02:38 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Default Re: Democratic seeks to ban vasectomies

@ One man.............
I would like to point out that in your last post you said the woman knew the risks when the pants came off then went on to say that men don't get to make the choice because wemon make it for them......To that I have to say, you knew the risks when you whipped it out.

Just a little stund over the double standard there.
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Old 02-23-2012, 07:40 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Default Re: Democratic seeks to ban vasectomies

My general standard is, If you chose to have sex, you accepted the risk of getting pregnant.

If you chose to have sex with an irresponsible trophy collector, than you also chose single parenthood.

THAT however, is applied in a broad spectrum.

I think it is impossible to outlaw abortion, because while it is easy to say that and cover everyone with a general blanket statement, there are so many different situations where it is NOT proper to bring a child into and adoption although an option, isn't always the best solution. There are situations where health of the mother or fetus are a big concern or risk, or situations like the 12yr old rape victim who's parents had to drive her out of state to get her an abortion a few years ago, or a woman who finds herself pregnant and homeless, or a woman struggling to get by has sex with her monogamous boyfriend and cannot afford to have a child.


There's just too much gray area to blanket everyone, and I know I am always there to drive someone who has chosen the abortion route.

Do I support carelessly sleeping around unprotectedly or not even sleeping around, just having regular unprotected sex, doing nothing to prevent and then aborting as a means of birth control? No.

I also think it is ludicrous for a man to sue a woman to carry a baby full term when there are plenty of willing baby machines ready to reproduce out there for him to chose from.

But there is no way to add discretion to abortion laws. I can't tell you if I would or would not have one, but there is no way it should not be available in safe, professional setting.
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Old 02-23-2012, 08:04 AM   #42 (permalink)
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Default Re: Democratic seeks to ban vasectomies

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Originally Posted by Thor View Post
A woman has the choice to either have sex or not. If she chooses to have sex she accepts the consequences. Once pregnant she now has certain responsibilities to this other human child.

The man also has a choice, and if he fathers a child he has responsibilities to the child.

You see the anti-abortion position as men who want to control your right to choose what to do with your body. I think most of the anti-abortion crowd would say you have the choice when you choose to have sex, at which point you accept the responsibility for any child conceived.
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I would agree with you IF

....every single "father" out there would step up to his responsibilities and not ***** about paying child support, or ***** that some woman is trying to trap him by getting pregnant, or ***** about the amount of child support or ***** about having to spend time with said child, etc., etc., etc.... you get the idea. Life is not perfect. I sat in family court here a few years ago and a woman was in there suing for back child support. The father owed upwards of 10K. The family court judge asked him what he could pay, he said something like $20 a week. It was ordered, $20 a week. Support a child on that!!!!

Often times, the woman bears all of the responsibility when it comes to being single and pregnant. I know I did when I was 20. The "father" of my oldest was long gone by the time I even found out I was pregnant, he had graduated college and moved to a big city... This was before the internet, googling, facebook, cell phones, etc. And no, I didn't get a last name from him, never thought to ask, we were party buddies. Was I irresponsible? Perhaps, but so was he. Why should all the responsibility be left on me, the woman, when he was just as responsible? I'm happy I chose not to abort, but I was also comforted with the fact that I had a choice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Old 02-23-2012, 08:23 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Default Re: Democratic seeks to ban vasectomies

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Yet you go on to say everyone is out to control a woman's body.



When you women decide that the baby us men helped make should not be alive that's making the decision for us.
Making abortion illegal IS controlling a womans body and that is exactly what is happening right now. Slowly a womans right to govern her own body is being chipped away, state by state.
As for "the baby", I won't touch that as you and I will never agree as to what constitutes life. Women don't make decisions for men, they make decisions for their OWN BODY based on their set of circumstances. Odd that you seem so concerned about "the baby" but one post ago said women shouldn't ask the father for money to raise and support the child. So which is it?
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:09 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Default Re: Democratic seeks to ban vasectomies

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I think abortion should only come into play in a case of rape, or something like that. If a woman chooses to have consensual sex with another man, then I agree she must accept the consequences, and a man who fathered that baby should have a say in the matter. I don't think this is about controlling a woman's body, but don't have sex and then become surprised you already have 3 kids that you can't afford to care for and then want to bug the baby daddy for money. Be responsible when it comes to sex, not being a sl**.
So that fetus you are fussing over is NOT a baby if it is the product of rape?

There are women out there who do have children on an irresponsible level, apparently the abortion laws don't matter to them anyway.... BUT DO YOU THINK THEY GOT PREGO'S BY THEMSELVES? For every single pregnant woman out there, there is a man involved somewhere along the way.... What gives him a right to poke his penis in a woman, and then label her a **** because she had sex with HIM, and then cry because she get's pregnant, whine because she wants money and then whine when she chooses abortion? What do you propose a viable solution to this problem is for a woman BESIDES your archaic and asinine perception that a woman should keep her legs closed? Continue to allow more and more children to be born, unwanted, unloved, living in poverty or in group homes awaiting adoption? How many foster children suffer a life of uncertainty? How many foster children are abused in the system each year?

If it would be mandated that ANY man who impregnates a woman is governed by law to be by that woman's side throughout the entire pregnancy, and through whatever decision she chooses, whether it be keep the child or give the child up for adoption, then by all means outlaw abortion. Until that happens, men simply need to stop trying to control a woman's life and body.
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Old 02-23-2012, 09:50 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Default Re: Democratic seeks to ban vasectomies

Cherry,

I have a dear friend who is anti-abortion and he believes that across the board. He truly believes that life begins at conception and I respect his belief because he doesn't waver on it based on circumstance. To him abortion is murder, no matter what. I can appreciate his views and I don't go 20 rounds with him on the subject.
What I cannot understand are those who say "Well in the case of rape or incest.....then it's okay". In other words, to those people it has nothing to do with "the baby" and everything to do with punishing the woman for being sexual. I have a HUGE problem with that. I also have a huge problem with the assumption that women who get pregnant unexpectedly are some how women of loose morals, don't take preventative measures and some how "deserve" this and the snotty comment of "Well then keep your legs closed" further shows that it is about "slvt shamming" women for daring to have sex.
I'll take your suggestion a step further and say that any man who wants to control a womans reproductive rights, should have his rights forfeited as well. If you want to control my body, then I get to control yours. Cool, right?
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