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Old 02-23-2012, 11:06 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Default Re: Democratic seeks to ban vasectomies

There's a really easy solution for the foster care system/unwanted children crisis. Every single person who wants to control a womans right to chose gets forced to adopt a child from the system. Children are oh so important to them afterall.

Or we could always just float the children down a river, Moses style to Santorum's mansion. He wants to abolish abortion and birth control so he should bear the burden of raising all unwanted children.

In my 40 years of being on this Earth, I have not once, NOT ONCE, met a person who while wanting to govern a womans right to chose......ever adopt a child. Oh the irony.
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:22 AM   #47 (permalink)
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Default Re: Democratic seeks to ban vasectomies

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I would agree with you IF

....every single "father" out there would step up to his responsibilities and not ***** about paying child support, or ***** that some woman is trying to trap him by getting pregnant, or ***** about the amount of child support or ***** about having to spend time with said child, etc., etc., etc.... you get the idea. Life is not perfect. I sat in family court here a few years ago and a woman was in there suing for back child support. The father owed upwards of 10K. The family court judge asked him what he could pay, he said something like $20 a week. It was ordered, $20 a week. Support a child on that!!!!

Often times, the woman bears all of the responsibility when it comes to being single and pregnant. I know I did when I was 20. The "father" of my oldest was long gone by the time I even found out I was pregnant, he had graduated college and moved to a big city... This was before the internet, googling, facebook, cell phones, etc. And no, I didn't get a last name from him, never thought to ask, we were party buddies. Was I irresponsible? Perhaps, but so was he. Why should all the responsibility be left on me, the woman, when he was just as responsible? I'm happy I chose not to abort, but I was also comforted with the fact that I had a choice!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yes and no. A woman does risk bearing all of the responsibility, but also has all of the control. A woman can decide to have an abortion and not notify the father, or get his permission. Alternatively, she can have the child and require him to support that child. He has no say in that decision.

I am not disagreeing with you that woman as single parents all too often are left holding the baby and that the fathers are not stepping up to their responsibility. I am also pro-choice. Where I get uneasy is with the idea that men have no choice from conception until birth. I readily admit that I have no solution for that, as the alternatives seem just as problematic. Yet that unease is still there. Perhaps it is the risk men run, much like woman risk raising a kid alone, when they chose to have sex.
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:23 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Default Re: Democratic seeks to ban vasectomies

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There's a really easy solution for the foster care system/unwanted children crisis. Every single person who wants to control a womans right to chose gets forced to adopt a child from the system. Children are oh so important to them afterall.

Or we could always just float the children down a river, Moses style to Santorum's mansion. He wants to abolish abortion and birth control so he should bear the burden of raising all unwanted children.

In my 40 years of being on this Earth, I have not once, NOT ONCE, met a person who while wanting to govern a womans right to chose......ever adopt a child. Oh the irony.
You do know you are giving Michelle Bachman a huge free pass.
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:29 AM   #49 (permalink)
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You do know you are giving Michelle Bachman a huge free pass.
Not sure that I would want Marcus around children. He has that "child toucher" look about him.
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:33 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Default Re: Democratic seeks to ban vasectomies

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Cherry,

I have a dear friend who is anti-abortion and he believes that across the board. He truly believes that life begins at conception and I respect his belief because he doesn't waver on it based on circumstance. To him abortion is murder, no matter what. I can appreciate his views and I don't go 20 rounds with him on the subject.
What I cannot understand are those who say "Well in the case of rape or incest.....then it's okay". In other words, to those people it has nothing to do with "the baby" and everything to do with punishing the woman for being sexual. I have a HUGE problem with that. I also have a huge problem with the assumption that women who get pregnant unexpectedly are some how women of loose morals, don't take preventative measures and some how "deserve" this and the snotty comment of "Well then keep your legs closed" further shows that it is about "slvt shamming" women for daring to have sex.
I'll take your suggestion a step further and say that any man who wants to control a womans reproductive rights, should have his rights forfeited as well. If you want to control my body, then I get to control yours. Cool, right?
All for that brighteyes.

I personally feel we have enough female power in this country to NOT let the holier than thou attitude take over and stick us back in the stone age. I'd be the first one to stop whatever I'm doing to march on Capital Hill to block ANY law from being passed that would restrict our reproductive rights to an archaic level. Makes me sick to think the blame is still being directed at women as a whole... Absolutely fvcking sick.
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:35 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Alternatively, she can have the child and require him to support that child. He has no say in that decision.
Sure he does, sign over his rights... That takes care of his financial responsibility.
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:38 AM   #52 (permalink)
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Default Re: Democratic seeks to ban vasectomies

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There's a really easy solution for the foster care system/unwanted children crisis. Every single person who wants to control a womans right to chose gets forced to adopt a child from the system. Children are oh so important to them afterall.

Or we could always just float the children down a river, Moses style to Santorum's mansion. He wants to abolish abortion and birth control so he should bear the burden of raising all unwanted children.

In my 40 years of being on this Earth, I have not once, NOT ONCE, met a person who while wanting to govern a womans right to chose......ever adopt a child. Oh the irony.

LOVE IT.

Or just pass out a child after each Catholic church service.
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Old 02-23-2012, 11:41 AM   #53 (permalink)
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Default Re: Democratic seeks to ban vasectomies

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Yes and no. A woman does risk bearing all of the responsibility, but also has all of the control. A woman can decide to have an abortion and not notify the father, or get his permission. Alternatively, she can have the child and require him to support that child. He has no say in that decision.

I am not disagreeing with you that woman as single parents all too often are left holding the baby and that the fathers are not stepping up to their responsibility. I am also pro-choice. Where I get uneasy is with the idea that men have no choice from conception until birth. I readily admit that I have no solution for that, as the alternatives seem just as problematic. Yet that unease is still there. Perhaps it is the risk men run, much like woman risk raising a kid alone, when they chose to have sex.
I can appreciate how men could feel left out, sort of speak but as you said, this is a dangerous slope to ski down. I will say I find it rare that a woman who finds herself pregnant would go ahead with an abortion without telling the father. I think that is quite rare in fact. I think an abortion is oftentimes reached as a mutual decision or at least he is aware of the situation.
My "solution" of course was tongue and cheek. So much blame is put on the women for getting pregnant but I rarely see the men getting the same scorn. Where are they ponying up and being responsible? If men want to control womens reproductive rights, they better damn well step up to the plate and not just with a $200 check every month. Marry the woman, be a stable force in the childs life and do the day in day out things that children need. I don't see that though.
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Old 02-23-2012, 03:46 PM   #54 (permalink)
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Sure he does, sign over his rights... That takes care of his financial responsibility.
Actually no. A guy can't generally end his support obligations just by signing away his rights. It can be done in certain situations, such as when for adoption by a step parent or the like, but a single guy does not just get off the hook by signing away his rights.
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Old 02-23-2012, 03:57 PM   #55 (permalink)
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I can appreciate how men could feel left out, sort of speak but as you said, this is a dangerous slope to ski down. I will say I find it rare that a woman who finds herself pregnant would go ahead with an abortion without telling the father. I think that is quite rare in fact. I think an abortion is oftentimes reached as a mutual decision or at least he is aware of the situation.
I have no idea how often a woman gets an abortion without telling the man. While I suspect it happens more often that people think. It is a very personal, perhaps emotional decision and I can imagine situations where a woman does not want to invovle the man, particularly if it is a casual relationship. Having said that I have no way to prove that.

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My "solution" of course was tongue and cheek. So much blame is put on the women for getting pregnant but I rarely see the men getting the same scorn. Where are they ponying up and being responsible? If men want to control womens reproductive rights, they better damn well step up to the plate and not just with a $200 check every month. Marry the woman, be a stable force in the childs life and do the day in day out things that children need. I don't see that though.
I sse more scorn for men not stepping up to support their children than there was ten years ago, but it is still lagging. I do wonder at those who rail against abortion but then want to take away birth control. On that point, I give Santorum credit, as he seems to support access and funding, for birth control.
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Old 02-23-2012, 04:01 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Actually no. A guy can't generally end his support obligations just by signing away his rights. It can be done in certain situations, such as when for adoption by a step parent or the like, but a single guy does not just get off the hook by signing away his rights.
Thank you for correcting me, and the way I read the law is that termination of parental rights does sever financial, but a court doesn't let just anyone volutarily terminate their rights... There has to be compelling reasons. I just briefly did a search though.
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Old 02-23-2012, 04:42 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Default Re: Democratic seeks to ban vasectomies

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Actually no. A guy can't generally end his support obligations just by signing away his rights. It can be done in certain situations, such as when for adoption by a step parent or the like, but a single guy does not just get off the hook by signing away his rights.
Wrong. State of Texas allows men to sign away the rights to a child. So do 12 others.
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Old 02-23-2012, 04:56 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Another sexist with an agenda. Not surprised by most of the estrogens here frothing at the mouth because there's a chance they can be held responsible for their immature behavior.
You say women should be held to a responsibility and don't come asking "baby daddy" for money? So men get off scott free and thats that. Nice to know. Well that and if women closed their legs more.......
If anything is frothing, it's you and you might want to have that checked out.

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Old 02-23-2012, 05:12 PM   #59 (permalink)
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Wrong. State of Texas allows men to sign away the rights to a child. So do 12 others.
We may be talking past each other. As I understand it, a man has the ability to sign away his rights and thus not have to pay child support. This most often occurs if the wife accepts it.

However, a man cannot unilaterial sign away his rights in an effort to not pay child support. If that were the case, there would be many fewer dead-beat dads, as they could just sign away their rights and avoid payment.
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Old 02-23-2012, 05:18 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Default Re: Democratic seeks to ban vasectomies

@One man~ I love the statement you make, You want to be sexual, then be responsible.


But part of that means being able to use any form of birth controll that works for our body. It is still taking a risk but we should have a chance to enjoy sex with minimized risks.
Everyones body is different and there for the options should not be shut down if you let the governement start to make laws then you run the risk of them going all the way and controlling others lives compleltly.
I am not pro abortion I am pro choice. EVERYONE should have the choice to make for them self with a doctor and not any government agency feeling like lords of the people rather then servents to the people. (yeah I know a whole different debate)
As to the many post I see about the exception in the case of rape issue. No subject like this is going to be black and white. So to want it to be by, saying but why will they make these exceptions? Why are they not for one or the other. (just for thoes that think like that.
If a woman was to try to get an abortion after rape I bet she would have had to report it first and many do not report it so then what would happen? There would be a burrden of proof placed on someone who was viotlated. And false reports would go up largely.
See there is no black and white on this issue and there never will be.
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