This country was founded on freedom from oppression, particularly religious persecution....the founding fathers were not Christians, they were deists...very tolerant of others religious beliefs. Now look what's happened.....certain Republican politicians running for office want to make this country a theocracy....if that ever happens, it will be a disaster....
Yes, This is true. Especially Jefferson.
Many Democrats are Jews. Not all Democrats are Jews. I am a Republican. While it is true that many on the religious right are Republicans it is not accurate to state that all Republicans are members of the religious right. You then get into Liberals, Moderates and Conservatives.
Also one can get into Jeffersonian versus Hamiltonian politics. Love that. But all these things are part of our individual belief system that involves our own moral judgements. Depending on the subject I can be seen as Liberal, Conservative or Moderate. I suspect most people are like that. Shades of gray.
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Last edited by Entropy3000; 02-24-2012 at 01:16 PM.
Many Democrats are Jews. Not all Democrats are Jews. I am a Republican. While it is true that many on the religious right are Republicans it is not accurate to state that all Republicans are members of the religious right. You then get into Liberals, Moderates and Conservatives.
Also one can get into Jeffersonian versus Hamiltonian politics. Love that. But all these things are part of our individual belief system that involves our own moral judgements. Depending on the subject I can be seen as Liberal, Conservative or Moderate. I suspect most people are like that. Shades of gray.
No, not all Republicans, but I think you know which ones I mean..Rick Santorum is a classic case of wanting to turn this country into a theocracy, wanting to get rid of women's rights to birth control.
Wouldn't it be nice if we had someone of Jefferson's calibre running the show?
I've noticed for about the past three years, minority religions are finally starting to stick up for themselves and say 'hey, the United States is supposed to be about freedom from relgious pins, not Christianity.' and they're getting attacked for it. What the heck?
The Pledge of Allegiance, the dollar bill and court systems (until a few years ago) all were very Christian based even though 76%, not 100%, of the population is Christian. I'm glad that they've started pushing religion out of courts and schools, but it seems not everyone is. There isn't another form of religious influence, there is just lack there of.
Why do you think Christians are having such a hard time accepting that? If you are Christian, how do you feel about this? If you're another religion, does this make you feel better, not care or scared of how some people are reacting to it?
Sorry if the topic is too controversial, it's just the first thing that came to mind when I saw this forum section and lack of anything but Christian topics on the religious department.
Really? Because it seems to me that Christianity is the only religion that is being picked on. We are taught to be tolerant or everyone else's religions,however people protest in the streets to get Christianity thrown out.
Really? Because it seems to me that Christianity is the only religion that is being picked on. We are taught to be tolerant or everyone else's religions,however people protest in the streets to get Christianity thrown out.
Look at accusations that Obama is a Muslim and not a Christian. Do you think these are compliments? The Morman church baptizing Jews posthumously to save them. No presidential candidate has been a non-Christian, and all discuss their faith, at least on some level.
Christianity is absolutely attacked at times in the US, but that is a natural consequence of its involvement in so many things, including politics. Christianity is the dominate religion in the US and in view of the first amendment, it is natural for tension to exist.
No presidential candidate has been a non-Christian, and all discuss their faith, at least on some level.
In fact at least 9 Presidents were Episcopalian. Considering the tiny tiny population of Episcopalians in the US one would think there's some kind of conspiracy going on. This is what I tell people who think Jews control the world, banks, government, media, etc etc.
People do not like giving up privilege or granting equality to values that differ from their own. Christians have been the majority in the country for a long time and they are used to it. Those who want to maintain their power and who rely on their claims of Christian values will do what they can to maintain that status quo. It isn't actually about Christianity, but about power. People wage wars in the name of religion all the time, but those wars are not actually fought for the sake of that religion. It's unfortunate that people exploit concepts of goodness and grace in order to maintain their own privilege, but that is what I think is at the root. The reason it is difficult to change dominant discourses and power structures is because people navigate the rules of those domains in order to get personal power and they enforce those rules and domains in order to preserve what they've gotten.
It does get annoying, to a degree, to Christians that we have to "hide" our beliefs to make everyone else happy...We are expected to take our beliefs, our symbols, our words out of everything so that everyone else of a different religion, or lack thereof, can express their beliefs/non-beliefs....
There was a case around here where there was a nativity scene on public property that was put there by the person that owned the place for Christmas...there was such an uproar about it that it had to be taken down..why??? It wasn't hurting anyone, it was there to symbolize the holiday. If you don't believe, or believe something different, why can't you just ignore it's existence and go on your happy way??? I just don't get it....
I don't think that Christians should have to hide their beliefs, but don't you see the problem that it's *only* Christian wording that gets put into institutionalized discourse? That's what people are resisting, not the actual existence of Christianity or the freedom of Christians, but the idea that it must be the default and that everything else is a deviation.
If the owner put up some decorations, they should have been left there. Foolish and likely to incite hatred to challenge someone's choice of decor just because others are offended by looking at it. However, because it's a public place, it becomes a public endorsement of a viewpoint. That's where the issue is murky.
I think the two points in your paragraphs are not indicative of the same problem, though. Re-evaluating the default position is not the same as hindering private expression. Removing a bias from a dominant institution is not the same thing as asking that dominant group to hide itself.
Read Peggy Macintosh or Robert Jensen talk about institutionalized racism. It's a good parallel to the discussion about religion because it's about the forms of discrimination that are not individual acts of malice but about the biases in the system that unfairly give an advantage to one group over another. If you're going to put your trust in a system, then it is also your responsibility to be on the lookout for corruption within it.
And that's another thing...equating the Constitutional guarantee of removal of religion from government with "stifling religion.".
What? exactly where in the Constitution is there a guarantee of removal of religion from the government?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grayson
Because that same freedom of religion also provides for freedom from religion. Posted via Mobile Device
While I agree that "freedom of religion" as expressed in the Constitution allows for individuals to choose whatever faith they decide to practice (if any), it will be a hard task indeed to convince me that the notion of the founding fathers should be that the government (or the nation as a whole) should be non-religious (again, not necessarily the individual) and not have some sort of faith in a higher power.
Really? Because it seems to me that Christianity is the only religion that is being picked on. We are taught to be tolerant or everyone else's religions,however people protest in the streets to get Christianity thrown out.
I disagree with that. I've seen many religions/beliefs being picked on, protested against, ect. Scientology, Buddhism, paganism, agnostics, atheists, wiccans, druids, ect. Alot of these beliefs/religions or whichever you want to refer to it as have good morals, guidelines, and supposedly practice tolerance to an extent however there are extremists that tend to cause problems between all. It's not the belief system or lack there of ... it's the people.
People should be able to put up whatever symbols they wish, whatever decorations they wish, celebrate whatever holiday however they wish. It is their belief so i believe in respecting someone for who they are and if you don't follow their belief that's fine.... but don't take away their right to express themselves.... The uproar over decorations, the wanting to put everything in default mode, ect is plain out idiotic imo. The differences is what makes this country beautiful.... to hide all that... and make it basically robotic.... is a shame imo.
could I just say that this issue crops up in the UK all the time - stories about nativity plays being banned in schools and towns having to change 'christmas' to 'winterval' and other religions getting 'offended' by christian traditions
and you know what?
delve a little deeper and it's almost NEVER true, just whipped up by the right wing press to stir the sh*tstorm
that may not be the case in the US but it's certainly the case here...
No, Dolly...that's how it is here, too. If, for example, a chain of stores chooses to acknowledge the simple truth that multiple religions/belief systems celebrate similar holidays all around the winter solstice by using the all-encompassing phrase "happy holidays," then, by golly, it's a "war on Christmas" and an "attack on Christianity." Posted via Mobile Device
While I agree that "freedom of religion" as expressed in the Constitution allows for individuals to choose whatever faith they decide to practice (if any), it will be a hard task indeed to convince me that the notion of the founding fathers should be that the government (or the nation as a whole) should be non-religious (again, not necessarily the individual) and not have some sort of faith in a higher power.
What you pose as a single question is really two separate questions, as (to borrow your words) "some sort of faith in a higher power" does not require subscribing to any particular religious sect (although the reverse is, almost by definition, a near-impossibility...religion generally requires "some sort of belief in a higher power"). In other words, using a single, specific religion's rule book to shape and guide a nation would appear to be at odds with that nation's sworn oath to not establish a national religion. Posted via Mobile Device
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Re: Minority religions being attacked in the US. 
