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Old 04-24-2012, 08:38 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Default Re: Holocaust - Fact or Fiction?

The archives in BAD AROLSEN, Germany were opened in 2006.

Over 50 million documents produced by the Germans during World War 2.

They contain records of the arrest, detention, transportation, housing, food, work schedules of Nazi prisoners.

They contain records of property, family members, assets, even dental gold and hair quality.

They also contain the records of the "processing" of the prisoners through their slaughter and ultimate destruction of the bodies.

The beast kept meticulous records of it's actions.
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:23 PM   #62 (permalink)
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My research has uncovered the following link:

International Red Cross Records Prove Holocaust was a FRAUD

Judge for yourself. I would appreciate help with this document from anyone here who speaks German.

Last edited by Galt; 04-24-2012 at 08:28 PM.
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Old 04-24-2012, 08:59 PM   #63 (permalink)
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My problem is that when we say Holocaust we think of one thing...one extremely tragic, horrific and disgusting thing. Sadly, it's a lot more than a one time thing.

Belgian Congo 1891-1911 11,500,000 blacks died 1891-1911; from 1907 Kongo was a Belgian Crown Domain.

South Africa, 1900 In the Boer-war the British coined the word "concentration camp".

Armenia, 1915 1,500,000 Christian Armenians killed by Turks in what Churchill called a Holocaust.

USSR, 1921 21,000,000 hit by partly Soviet-engineered famine. (2nd August 1921)

Ukraine, 1932-1933 4,821,600 died of hunger engineered by Stalin 1932-33. 7,465,000 died in 1932-1939.

USSR 1934 to 1953 From 1934 to 1953 upto 15 million Russians disappered in the GULAGS.

Germany/Poland 1939-1945 5,000,000 non-jews died in Germancamps, mainly Polish Christians and Catholics

Germany, 1942-1945 5,860 mill. jews died in German KZ-Camps

Poland/Russia from 1941 1,700,000 Polish people were deported to Siberia after 1941.

Bengal, 1943 1,500,000 died of war-related famine in 1943 in Bengal.

Germany, East Prussia 1945 upto 3,000,000 German civilians were killed by Russians in the last months of WW2.

Cambodia, 1975-1979 Khmer Rouge´s Pol Pot (president 1976) killed abt. 1,700,000 of his own people.

East Timor 1983-1985 200,000 East Timorese (Indonesia) were killed in 1983-1985.

Rwanda/Burundi - 1993-1994 700,000 Hutus and Tutsies murdered each other while the world looked away.

Yugoslavia 1991-2000 About 250,000 dead Yugoslaws can be blamed on Milosevic upto 2000.

"But then Rwanda happened. In 100 days, one million Tutsis were killed by the Hutus. The United Nations, and the rest of the world, were reluctant to go in. What we had once vowed would never happen again, happened again. World officials made excuses, claiming they were unaware of the extent of the conflict, that it wasn’t clear the conflict had turned into genocide. Once again, they said, “never again.”

But here we are, in the year 2009, with yet another genocide, and this time, they can’t make excuses.

In March of 2003, rebel groups in Darfur, the western region of Sudan, began attacking government forces. These two rebel groups, the Sudan Liberation Army and the Justice and Equality Movement were made up of Black Africans, and they felt that all Black Africans in Sudan were being oppressed by the government in favor of the Muslim African majority.

It took only a year for the United States government to label the conflict as a genocide. And since the beginning of the conflict, there have been hundreds of humanitarian and activist groups dedicated to stopping the genocide, mainly those of STAND: A Student Anti-Genocide Coalition, the Genocide Intervention Network, The Save Darfur Coalition, and the Enough Project.

So how come, six years later, the genocide is still going on? That’s a good question." Written in 2009

Does anyone know without googling what's happening in Darfur today?

The problem is that holocausts are easily sparked and ignited, complete and blatant disregard for our humanity and every time the international community looks away or makes political excuse and those who think they hold their humanity in high regard could care less...it's not them, not their children, they're busy, didn't know about it, busy with every day life, what can they do really?

Heartbroken Sigh.

There is so much we can do. Political persuasion, protest, voting and support of organizations that are well researched to be actually helping. Read the book What is the What and help rebuild a school in Darfur along with get an education. I don't know, I have about 500 things you can do.

What really is the point of debating facts and figures about the past when you can help change the numbers in the present?!?
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:02 PM   #64 (permalink)
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I have a dear German friend who recently received an award in honor of his grandfather who hid Jews from the Nazis. Artifacts were discovered in a safe beneath his home that authenticated this.

The atrocities of the Nazis will live on despite the rhetoric of continued hate against the Jews. The Nazi atrocities were not limited to the Jews of course.
What the Nazis brought upon their own German people was sobering in itself.

There will always be those who wish to blame someone or some group with all of their problems. It is easier that way. This enabled Hitler and it enables totalitarian regimes who oppress their very own people with their rhetoric of hate. Some wish to blame thier problems on the West. Some countries are overthowing these regimes. The old rhetoric will live on for a while but new generations have an opportunity to learn the truth.

So indeed the Holocaust happened. Most of the world will not let this be forgotten. Ever.
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:05 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trenton View Post
My problem is that when we say Holocaust we think of one thing...one extremely tragic, horrific and disgusting thing. Sadly, it's a lot more than a one time thing.

Belgian Congo 1891-1911 11,500,000 blacks died 1891-1911; from 1907 Kongo was a Belgian Crown Domain.

South Africa, 1900 In the Boer-war the British coined the word "concentration camp".

Armenia, 1915 1,500,000 Christian Armenians killed by Turks in what Churchill called a Holocaust.

USSR, 1921 21,000,000 hit by partly Soviet-engineered famine. (2nd August 1921)

Ukraine, 1932-1933 4,821,600 died of hunger engineered by Stalin 1932-33. 7,465,000 died in 1932-1939.

USSR 1934 to 1953 From 1934 to 1953 upto 15 million Russians disappered in the GULAGS.

Germany/Poland 1939-1945 5,000,000 non-jews died in Germancamps, mainly Polish Christians and Catholics

Germany, 1942-1945 5,860 mill. jews died in German KZ-Camps

Poland/Russia from 1941 1,700,000 Polish people were deported to Siberia after 1941.

Bengal, 1943 1,500,000 died of war-related famine in 1943 in Bengal.

Germany, East Prussia 1945 upto 3,000,000 German civilians were killed by Russians in the last months of WW2.

Cambodia, 1975-1979 Khmer Rouge´s Pol Pot (president 1976) killed abt. 1,700,000 of his own people.

East Timor 1983-1985 200,000 East Timorese (Indonesia) were killed in 1983-1985.

Rwanda/Burundi - 1993-1994 700,000 Hutus and Tutsies murdered each other while the world looked away.

Yugoslavia 1991-2000 About 250,000 dead Yugoslaws can be blamed on Milosevic upto 2000.

"But then Rwanda happened. In 100 days, one million Tutsis were killed by the Hutus. The United Nations, and the rest of the world, were reluctant to go in. What we had once vowed would never happen again, happened again. World officials made excuses, claiming they were unaware of the extent of the conflict, that it wasn’t clear the conflict had turned into genocide. Once again, they said, “never again.”

But here we are, in the year 2009, with yet another genocide, and this time, they can’t make excuses.

In March of 2003, rebel groups in Darfur, the western region of Sudan, began attacking government forces. These two rebel groups, the Sudan Liberation Army and the Justice and Equality Movement were made up of Black Africans, and they felt that all Black Africans in Sudan were being oppressed by the government in favor of the Muslim African majority.

It took only a year for the United States government to label the conflict as a genocide. And since the beginning of the conflict, there have been hundreds of humanitarian and activist groups dedicated to stopping the genocide, mainly those of STAND: A Student Anti-Genocide Coalition, the Genocide Intervention Network, The Save Darfur Coalition, and the Enough Project.

So how come, six years later, the genocide is still going on? That’s a good question." Written in 2009

Does anyone know without googling what's happening in Darfur today?

The problem is that holocausts are easily sparked and ignited, complete and blatant disregard for our humanity and every time the international community looks away or makes political excuse and those who think they hold their humanity in high regard could care less...it's not them, not their children, they're busy, didn't know about it, busy with every day life, what can they do really?

Heartbroken Sigh.

There is so much we can do. Political persuasion, protest, voting and support of organizations that are well researched to be actually helping. Read the book What is the What and help rebuild a school in Darfur along with get an education. I don't know, I have about 500 things you can do.

What really is the point of debating facts and figures about the past when you can help change the numbers in the present?!?
Exactly.
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:06 PM   #66 (permalink)
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I can only give an American view. I am American.

Even if I read 1,000 history books about it, I would still be only able to think like an American.

Sorry.
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:13 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galt View Post
My research has uncovered the following link:

International Red Cross Records Prove Holocaust was a FRAUD

Judge for yourself. I would appreciate help with this document from anyone here who speaks German.
And for all of us that have taken the time to read this most "enlightening" article, I think that it would only be fair to post a Wikipedia link to let you know a little something about its author!

Hal Turner - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To that end, I rest my case!
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:33 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Re: Trenton

Purely in the interest of completeness I am providing, for addition to your list, the following link which contains information on the Palestinian and other “holocausts” which you may have overlooked.:


Jew Watch - Jewish Genocidal Murders of Others - Palestinian
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:41 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galt View Post
Re: Trenton

Purely in the interest of completeness I am providing, for addition to your list, the following link which contains information on the Palestinian and other “holocausts” which you may have overlooked.:


Jew Watch - Jewish Genocidal Murders of Others - Palestinian
You know, I'm fine with you adding the addition but it's your motive behind doing so that bothers me.

I wonder if you really care about Palestinian children whose homes are plowed down by Israeli soldiers or the Israeli child who is blown up on a bus?

What is your interest beyond wanting to argue on?

I take these issues very seriously. I find stringent, debate to push buttons and politics for amusement completely disgusting.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:26 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by endlessgrief View Post
I have been studying this and watching the propaganda nazi crap, but I seriously do not know why people hate the Jews. Even to this day, the KKK and Skin Heads, they hate Jewish people. Why?
Ok... I might get stoned for this by some of the Christians, but do correct me if I am wrong.... I want to try to answer this through the eyes of historic Christianity, the early years.....when all these Creeds and Councils were being formed..and men did not have access to Bibles but just TRUSTED what "was taught"... and Governments rules by force...

There is something called " Replacement Theology .......Martin Luther, the founder of our Protestant faith surely was no help.... most Chrisitans I have come across ...do not realize this man, although good intentioned in the beginning - wanting to take down the deciet & lies in the Catholic Church... he fully believed he would win the Jews to his "so called TRUTH"..... when they did not and refused to bow to this JESUS... .. a hatred grew in Luther for them... and vehemenetly... 3 yrs before his death... he penned "On Jews & their Lies"... an anti-semetic document /phamplet that literally outlined everything HITLER carried out.... Read for yourself ... On the Jews and Their Lies - Wikipedia

On Jews & their lies


This phamlet is in the Holocaust Museums (or so I have read)... can easily google so much on this history......not saying Hitler was a Christian by any means but HE USED Luthers words to stir Hatred - re-distribed this during his reign - after all Martin Luther was praised as a GOOD man, a founder of Protestantism.

But before all of this even.... one could say the divide began with the Council of Nicea, which is also the offical birth of our Fundamental beliefs Christians hold today---& remember these are the SAME CREEDS in effect that was used during the Inquistion by the Catholics -before us.

Before this Council, there were other CHRISTAIN interpretations of Who Jesus was, many not believing he was "God", or at least Lower than His Father in Heaven...

**** A few dates here ... After Constantine ....The Council of Nicea in 325 said that "Jesus Christ is God," the Council of Constantinople 381 said that "the Holy Spirit is God," and " the council of Chalcedon 451 said that "Jesus Christ is both man and God." Did the True Church Ever Teach a Trinity?'


So those who felt he was not God, or Less than God lost at this Council....and what followed was this...... To Christians---- God became a Trinity (took a few more councils to add the Holy Spirit in the mix), Heresy became a Crime, Judaism became a form of infidelity--- the birth of Anti-semitism & hate. You could say this is where Jesus Christ also slowly started to become a Swear word, because of all that was done against the Jewish Man in HIS name. I have this book, but have only read a little of it : When Jesus Became God: The Struggle to Define Christianity during the Last Days of Rome : Books

This book (below) is written by a Christian who will not deny the atrocities MAN & his belief has created ..... I can respect that highly, every christian should have a copy of this... I do.

Our Hands Are Stained with Blood : Michael L. Brown: Books

Also take a moment and read this letter >>> A Christian Apology

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Old 04-25-2012, 12:01 AM   #71 (permalink)
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:15 AM   #72 (permalink)
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This whole thread is disturbing. It's a fact. Denying it is denying the victims.

I personally know one of the victims of the war and my husband researches a lot of WWII so I have seen many documentary's etc. The fact that people even question it is wrong.
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Old 04-25-2012, 12:51 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galt View Post
My research has uncovered the following link:

International Red Cross Records Prove Holocaust was a FRAUD

Judge for yourself. I would appreciate help with this document from anyone here who speaks German.
The CICR admits to failures in helping victims of the holocaust. They also maintain the records of over 17 million people from WWII. I invite you to come to Genève to look at the catalouges on permanent display. As someone already pointed out, your source is quite biased and unscholarly.
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:12 AM   #74 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Trojan John
The CICR admits to failures in helping victims of the holocaust. They also maintain the records of over 17 million people from WWII. I invite you to come to Genève to look at the catalouges on permanent display. As someone already pointed out, your source is quite biased and unscholarly.
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Liars figure, but figures don’t lie. Are you denying the authenticity of the document?
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Old 04-25-2012, 01:43 AM   #75 (permalink)
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Liars figure, but figures don’t lie. Are you denying the authenticity of the document?
The International Red Cross already denied its authenticity.Look it up on Wiki (criticisms of holocaust denial)
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