Day One... - Page 10 - Talk About Marriage
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post #136 of 1035 (permalink) Old 10-11-2014, 10:41 AM
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Re: Re: Day One...

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Edit: Deleted.
You okay?


"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #137 of 1035 (permalink) Old 10-11-2014, 10:46 AM
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Re: Day One...

Don't meet her.

Don't engage her in discussions about your relationship. You can see that action gets her attention. Keep acting. Cut out the talking.

If wants to be with you, she will send you some signal.

Relationship discussion – you're right, I'm wrong or I'm right, you're wrong is not love.

"I want to come home."
"I want be in the same bed with you."
"I want to work things out."

Those are discussion starters. The other stuff is just extended squabbling.
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post #138 of 1035 (permalink) Old 10-11-2014, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Day One...

Thanks for the feedback. Both of you. But i'll be offline for a while. As much as i appreciate your advice, I have to digest what happened today without any outside influences.

Last edited by DayOne; 10-11-2014 at 11:24 AM.
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post #139 of 1035 (permalink) Old 10-11-2014, 11:32 AM
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Re: Day One...

Okay, brother. We will be around when you need us. Continue to take care of yourself.

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #140 of 1035 (permalink) Old 10-12-2014, 04:22 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Day One...

Alright, yesterday.

Well, we met. And initially it went as i suspected. She was pissed about me cancelling the direct debits, and handing over some of her stuff to oldest boy.

I listened to her blow off steam, for a while, without shutting her down. But it gave me the information i needed as to why she was pissed, and how i could respond. When she moved out she setup a new bank account, as I had requested and we had agreed. However, as well as a new account, she needed to provide proof of billing address, which as she had only just moved was harder to come by, in order to change direct debits to a different account. She had moved her most recent paycheck to her new account from our joint account, which i already knew ( i monitor our old accounts, there's nothing 'unusual' going on there ). BUT, what she hadn't told me was that she'd put some of that paycheck aside to cover any direct debits that might go through before she'd transferred, cancelled them.

We went back and forward over that for a while until we both accepted that, as far as communication over money goes, we'd both F'ed up. She hadn't told me about making a buffer zone of cash for the direct debits, and i hadn't told her i was cancelling them. Should i have just arbitrarily cancelled the debits? Possibly not, but as i explained to her, I was covering my a$$. If all of them had gone through, it would have hosed the bit of money i had left in there. Eventually she 'got' that, and the fact she should have told me she'd put a plan in place to over the debits. She has now all she needs to take care of any remaining financial matters. Her cell account is in my name so she couldn't transfer it, so i called the cell company later (with her bank details) and took care of it.

To me, at least, this was an instance when No Contact caused more unneeded problems that it may have solved.



Next we covered the 'why' i was handing over more of her stuff (via oldest boy). She was worried (and angry) i was gradually moving her out of the house. The items i had dropped off were; her robe, a quilt she made, some house decorations, her christening cups, and 3 bags of baking, cake making items.

When we were going round the house prior to her moving out, deciding what goes and stays, she mentioned that she would be doing a lot of baking, hence the baking items. The house decorations because they were reminding me of her every time i saw them, same for the christening cups and quilt (which hang on a display cabinet at the top of the stairs and i see them every time i go up and down).

I explained to her (calmly) that I was not, in fact moving her out. If that was the case, i would be moving a sh1t load more than 4 grocery bags of stuff! The reason for handing over some of her things (the ones i haven't put in the closet) as that i can't have reminders of her all over the place are obvious. i'm trying to move on, seeing 'her' everywhere hinders that process. She 'got' that too.

Which brought us on to the 'why' she left.

She felt that she could no longer deal with my anger, frustration, controlling ahole attitude. It had sucked the life out of her to the point where she felt invisible and worthless. And i see where's she's coming from with that.

I had gotten into a cycle of setting unrealistic expectations, goals, not having them met, getting pissed off, and turning that anger into setting more unrealistic expectations, which wouldn't be met.....

For instance, her weight. She's been overweight since kid #1, never really lost it. Until she went to weightwatchers and lost a LOT of the weight, looked really good. Right after that she lost her job, and couldn't find another one for over 6 months. She's never been in that situation before and it really depressed her. the weight came back on.

When she was employed again I suggested weightwatchers as it has worked before and it might help. Then, when she didn't go, i told her to go. Then eventually i lost patience and told her she was ugly.

Yeah, i'm a d1ck.

As i said to her yesterday, i was so lost in being angry at everything not going my way, not being simple, easy that i no longer saw the harm i was doing to us. But i'm beginning to see it now, and that is (in part) why i am going to therapy. To work on the causes and issues that had made me what i am, and resolve them.

I told her i'm not working on us, and i accept that there may no longer BE an 'us'. Instead of "engaging her in discussions about your relationship", i was clear that there isn't one. At least, not for quite a while. I'm working on me. I'm in counselling, reading self help books (Though didn't mention NMMNG, MMSLP, etc by name) and support group (this one anyway).

She told me that since she moved out, she's cut down from a bottle+ of wine per night, to less than one per week. I let her know that I've also cut out drinking during the week. I think that admission made us both realize just how much we had been 'hiding' in bottles, in alcohol, to numb the pain we were both in.

(In fact i bought my first bottle of Jack in three weeks last night, and hated it. Even the beer i tried to drink, i couldn't finish the one bottle. They both made me feel slightly sick. I finished the evening drinking cranberry juice. It may be time to quit altogether. I guess i no longer have the same pain to mask.)

I told her that we need to continue maintaining a separate space (though improve communications when needed, to prevent what happened above. Low Contact, rather than No Contact), as we both need time to heal, to review, to move forward. This includes things like Facebook (yeah, she'd noticed and didn't like that either) as it's the same as peering though the window to see what the other person is doing. If our spaces, our lives, overlap and interact it will make it difficult to make the break required to move on (escape velocity?) She 'got' that too. eventually.

She also told me that oldest son is uncomfortable being in the middle, and i agreed it's unfair. She has submitted the redirect for the mail. She grumbled about the cost, but i chose not to remind her that it's a cost she chose when she moved out. Pick your fights. So no more mail coming here.

There was a brief flare up when i told her about oldest son sleeping through our arranged moving time, and lack of apology. "he probably didn't apologize, as you 'never' (she uses that word, a lot, as well as 'always') apologize". THAT got got shut down, real quick. As i reminded her, oldest son is 23 and accountable for his actions. But stuck to stating my position calmly but firmly, and then moved on.

Was it a successful meeting? I hope so. Did we resolve all our issues? Of course not. Did we achieve more in half an hour than we would have in a weeks worth of email contact? Absolutely. Will it be a regular thing? No.

Some of the NC advocates will be bouncing up and down over us having a face to face, and that's your 'right'. GaryLarson, i deleted my reply as it was....less than pleasant or constructive and written just after i got home from the meeting still full of emotion. But it was basically a long version of "butt out". However i realised that was unfair. You and LongWalk are trying to help, in your own way. And, as much as i don't have to accept all you post, the same goes vice versa. Some may not agree with my choice yesterday, but to me, it was a good thing.

It eased a lot of tension that had built up due to poor communication on both our parts, opened a door to a path i have to go down (my anger, controlling issues), and redefined some badly written 'ground rules'. Nobody 'won' anything, nobody 'lost' anything, but I and she both moved forward.

Last edited by DayOne; 10-12-2014 at 04:27 AM.
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post #141 of 1035 (permalink) Old 10-12-2014, 04:35 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Day One...

One last thing. I did send her a 'thank you for meeting with me' text late last night. Not convinced it wasn't a step too far. But it was a one off and i'll won't contact her again except for the criteria above.
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post #142 of 1035 (permalink) Old 10-12-2014, 05:33 AM
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Re: Day One...

DayOne,

That seemed like a positive interaction. Don't misunderstand. The goal of getting advice is to affect positive change. You are doing that. The most important thing that came out in the meeting was that you were not needy and begging for reconciliation. That is unattractive. It will not get your wife back.

In your discussion you kept things business like. Okay, you did have some relationship discussion but you both avoided going in circles.

The mutual admission that you both have identified alcohol as a problem in your lives is really important. There is really smart and interesting guy on TAM who was knocking back the booze. He has admitted that it was a problem, a big step for him.

Your wife is an alcoholic. No wonder she is overweight. Even if you don't consider yourself dependent on alcohol, you might want to go to Al-Anon.

Your life is in turmoil but you seem to be facing that pretty honestly. Keep drinking cranberry juice. Work out. Does your insurance cover marriage counseling? IC?
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post #143 of 1035 (permalink) Old 10-12-2014, 06:13 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Day One...

Thanks for the reply. Yes, a lot of positive came from it. If our future discussions can be done in the same way, it will help us both. Too much of the past ended up in arguing, screaming and unresolved issues (avoidance).

As i said before, i don't know whether there is a future for us, and i made that clear yesterday. But i will treat any improvement in the way i treat and work with my current (ex)partner as lessons for any future relationships.

Yes, the booze was an issue. But it appears that as we have both moved out of what is the very definition of a toxic relationship, we have also moved on from the destructive coping method we had both sunk into. (alcohol). If i find it becomes a coping mechanism again, i will seek help.

Her weight issue is a problem. She has bad knees (arthitis), brought on in part, i'm sure from the extra 50+ lbs. However, part of the weight issue is due to depression. As i said before i did not deal with helping her at all well. In fact, very negatively, no matter how much i convinced myself otherwise at the time. Bad diet, no exercise, booze, and a negative husband. Not a good combo.

Another example of my making the wrong choice: I walk, hike. A lot! (over 500 miles a year). I would try and get her to come with me, occasionally. But then get pissed off if she didn't do as i'd asked.

She signed up with a gym a short while back, and invited me to go with as a training partner. Unfortunately i took my anger at her not walking with me (aka doing what I wanted) and refused to do what she wanted.

Dumb, dumb, dumb.

I've held off on joining a gym until my finances are more stable (though I've taken up running and swimming as well as the walking), but i will sign up this week.


I've taken the money from the car i sold on Saturday and put it to one side to cover counselling. My employer does offer limited counselling, but have totally failed in getting back to me to set it up.
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post #144 of 1035 (permalink) Old 10-12-2014, 07:07 AM
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Re: Day One...

Look, brother. Our advice is just that; advice. To echo Longwalk, you did not beg or plead. You handled yourself very well. And both of you identified reasons why your relationship sank. You also acknowledged that your relationship is probably over to her. I think this is important to both of you.

I myself quit drinking in January. For me It clouded judgement, made me complacent, and was a barrier to communication with God. The clarity provided by that one step is often enough the catalyst to improve so many other areas. I am glad you have lost the taste for it.

I think the "thank you" text was a nice touch of class.

You are continuing to make great progress. And if my advice seems off, feel free to tell me to butt out; I am not in your shoes.

"Our ability to feel joy is directly related to how much pain we are willing to feel." - Mavash.

"The truth is, everyone is going to hurt you. You just got to find the ones worth suffering for." - Bob Marley
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post #145 of 1035 (permalink) Old 10-12-2014, 07:38 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Day One...

Thanks for the reply. Advice is always welcome.

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post #146 of 1035 (permalink) Old 10-12-2014, 08:23 AM
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Re: Day One...

Just "stopping by" to check in one you... catching up, bro you are doing amazingly well. Take a moment today to stop and look in the mirror and give yourself permission to be a little proud. You've come a long way in a very short time.

Nobody does this thing perfectly, of course. Three tidbits tossed in at you, and you have applied all, on your own and in your way -- which I think is terrific:
- 3 short weeks ago, you told us you hit the bottle hard. We chimed in about being careful with that. You already knew it, and now you're on the cranberry juice thing. Good for you. Sooo many of us twke that angle way further before waking up to it.
- we discussed in your other thread the "modified NC" and the 180 being for you, not for her. You've thoughtfully arrived at a healthy approach to your interactions with her. Still in control, not giving in to her messing with your head (whether intentional or not), well removed, still demonstrative of your 'new you', but covering the necessities. Difficult to get there, sure, but I think arriving at a real good place, for both of you.
- I mentioned not letting the highs get too high, nor the lows too low. I think you're doing all that rollercoaster management so well I am envious. Your own positive affirmations and 'can-do' attitude every day is going to get you through this in ways that will pay off for the rest of your life, no matter where you end up.

Just sayin', take just a quick moment to reflect. You've come a long way already. Sure there's a long road ahead, but it sure feels great to know at least you're on the right road, even if you look around from time to time and it feels like such foreign territory. Your own inner self is now a great compass; don't be afraid to follow it to let it guide you through the future hurdles and roadblocks.

My add-on advice is to listen to the above about getting yourself out socially a bit, if you think it may become a problem. Isolation can become a real demon that grows and grows, expands the bad times into worse times. Just my 2 cents; you are really good about seeing an issue, framing it, and tackling it with actions to at least get started. I'd really suggest making it a point in the coming weeks if you can. Those dark long gloomy winter days are ahead and tend to have some effect on us all.

But, like everythung discussed with you here recently and like LW said -- it's all just advice. You take what hits home with you and use it; discard or ignore what doesn't work for you. It's your life, even more so now (feels kinda good in ways, doesn't it? ). I think you're pretty good about ingesting and considering all input, but still doing what works for you.

Stay strong and positive. You're already in a position to be an inspiration to other newbies who may find themselves facing a similar situation!
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post #147 of 1035 (permalink) Old 10-12-2014, 08:52 AM
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Day One...

If you set up counseling, that is a concrete positive move. Your wife should respect that. When you go you can say that your goal is not reconciliation or divorce but a healthier relationship. Could be as co-parents.
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post #148 of 1035 (permalink) Old 10-12-2014, 11:21 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Day One...

Right now, I'm in individual counselling. Part of my plan to take care of me.

If at some point we decide to resolve 'us', then I'm open to couples counselling. But, for me at least, that's a ways off.
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post #149 of 1035 (permalink) Old 10-12-2014, 11:46 AM
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Re: Day One...

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Originally Posted by DayOne View Post
A good alternative. But, a little terse, imo. Remember, she hasn't stepped on me (Affair), or screwed up in any of the other ways other stories here show, and we've parted amicably. >>>>

<<<<Also, remember i'm working on being a positive, friendly person (which is the '180' i'm really shooting for, a turnaround from who i have been) who does not try to score points, be negative, find fault for the sake of it, nitpick or start fights. This includes my Wife.

I have no anger towards her, or hold any bitterness. For me, the past is past. If anything i consider our separation to be the best thing that could have happened to me in 25 years, or longer. Even my coworkers, friends and family have remarked on how different i am already. How positive i am and that my voice has changed. It's no longer flat and monotonous. There's a spark to it. I laugh, naturally, and enjoy being around people. This is a new thing and i like it.

If i hold onto the past and the anger it held, it will destroy my future.

>>>> and even if she did step on you or screwed up, your words are words everyone of us could learn from... I hope you both do well.

~sammy
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post #150 of 1035 (permalink) Old 10-12-2014, 03:49 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Day One...

Thanks for the kind words all. 2xLoser and Sammy. It sometimes only just 'feels' like i've got a handle on this. Other times it's more like i'm a swan. Seemingly peaceful and serene on the surface, but paddling like a MF'er underneath!
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