One Sided "Reconciliation"- I am WW - Talk About Marriage
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post #1 of 228 (permalink) Old 01-12-2015, 12:26 PM Thread Starter
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One Sided "Reconciliation"- I am WW

I know I keep posting the same or similar questions, but I'm having a hard time figuring out what to do.

My husband and I have stayed married for 5 months after DD#2 where I admitted to kissing another man after four months of him trying to reconcile DD#1- A drunken two- night stand with a different person. Although we are still married, I wouldn't call it reconciliation, as we are in limbo until he decides to commit.

I am currently almost 7 months pregnant and have posted other threads telling a longer version of the same story. The baby is absolutely my husband's- you can't get pregnant from kissing a man a month before conceiving. It's physically impossible. My husband knows this, he has told our counselor he's sure the baby is his, yet he has not participated in any part of the pregnancy. I understand where he might have doubts, obviously because I cheated and my word is worthless, so he questions my story and questions the truth.

I know what I did was wrong. It was selfish, immature, and I was too scared to just end a marriage I wanted out of, so I looked for extramarital attention. I stay in the marriage now in hopes that someday things will improve and we can be happy. The way I see it, marriage lasts a lifetime, so a few years of pain is just a blip if there is chance of improvement. (This is the way I see it NOW- obviously when I cheated I didn't see it that way)

My problem now is that my husband will not commit to reconciliation nor divorce. He feels that I could not give our child a good life on my own and he doesn't want to hurt our daughter by divorcing me. So technically he's married to our daughter right now, because he makes it clear most of the time that he's not interested in me. In the meantime he occasionally tells me he loves me and he wants it to work out between him and I, and then he gets mad at some ridiculous occurrence that I can't control and goes back to name-calling and hating me. (Example: I got diagnosed with Placenta Previa- this is KARMA for my cheating according to him and he's pissed off that I can't have sex because I could possibly DIE or kill the baby)

I am trying so very hard to help him heal: I paid for counseling for a month- he decided he didn't want to go anymore because the counselor "sucks", I cut off friends involved with the affair, I don't go anywhere alone unless I'm running errands, I have ONE friend that I talk to that he is nice to her face and mean behind her back, I have been quiet about the pregnancy because he didn't want it, I delete males on Facebook as he picks them out and decides I might cheat on him with them, I let him vent and yell and call me names and don't expect an apology, and I'm still going to IC. What more can I do?

He still calls me a ****, says he doesn't want the baby, yet he doesn't want a divorce, is angry that I'm doing positive things with myself because I should be on his level of depression.. He spends several days a week drinking at bars with his friend and then coming home and letting me have it in the form of a drunken monologue/rant. I just can't figure out ways to help him heal. He keeps saying "You fix it!" but I can only do so much on my own.


The other day he said I'm still the same person I was when I cheated because I posted something on Facebook about being annoyed with my CATS, and didn't take any action in real life to fix it..... CATS. This is not a joke. That's a whole different story, but he's been threatening to dump them on the side of the road somewhere for years. So I guess when I put on Facebook that I was annoyed, he expected me to go throw them outside somewhere. The fact that I didn't makes me still a cheater that can't commit to anything. Really? I just can't win.

I had my chance to just give up a few months ago, but I just couldn't. At this point I really have nowhere to go. I was under the impression at first that we were trying to reconcile, so I stayed. He feeds me crumbs here and there and touches by belly or tells me he loves me, and then changes his mind. We're stuck in limbo until the baby is born and he makes a decision. Apparently he now wants a DNA test and plans to ask for it the moment they pull the baby out of my body. In the same breath he says he knows the baby is physically his but emotionally it's not. I'm 7 months pregnant, have a 3 year old that I take care of practically alone, and am balls-deep in a master's degree program, so I don't exactly have the free time nor physical ability to just up and leave this situation. All I can do at this point is just try to improve it, but how?

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post #2 of 228 (permalink) Old 01-12-2015, 12:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: One Sided "Reconciliation"- I am WW

I guess what I'm saying is that I keep hearing this:

50% of the state of the marriage pre-affair is the responsibility of the WS, 50% is the responsibility of the BS. 100% of the affair is the responsibility of the WS.

I feel like I'm doing a lot of the heavy lifting to help us both heal from my decisions. I recognize problems in myself that led to me cheating instead of just being a mature adult and handling it differently. At the same time I feel like he his now blaming his 50% of our marital issues pre-affair on the affair itself, and now refusing to acknowledge them.

Because of this, we're in the same place we were before, and this time I'm not cheating. I'm just miserable. Even if he did forgive me, if the marriage continues like this, I can't stay. I've been told over and over that it's abuse, and I can't deal with it. He is going to have to make some realizations about himself and make some changes as well.
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post #3 of 228 (permalink) Old 01-12-2015, 02:26 PM
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Re: One Sided "Reconciliation"- I am WW

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrhouse View Post
I guess what I'm saying is that I keep hearing this:

50% of the state of the marriage pre-affair is the responsibility of the WS, 50% is the responsibility of the BS. 100% of the affair is the responsibility of the WS.
It's important to note that, while this is a general rule, it isn't something that's set in stone. After all, these numbers are likely to be skewed to some degree in most situations, even if the spread is something as slight as 50.1/49.9. And, in some cases, it's probably as severe at 90/10. (And, to be clear, I'm not saying that the WS will always own the larger share... not at all.)

Anyway, in the more extreme cases, any "blame" leveled at the party to whom the lesser share belongs may very well be due solely to the fact that he or she went along and put up w/ the status quo as opposed to addressing (or, at the very least, attempting to address) the problems in the marriage. And, of course, that's assuming that he or she didn't do so/attempt to do so.

Own your bullsh*t and insist that he do the same. He doesn't get a free pass for treating you like sh*t either before OR after the affair (and certainly not both before AND after), and anyone telling him that he should is toxic to both him and to your marriage.

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Originally Posted by rrhouse View Post
I feel like I'm doing a lot of the heavy lifting to help us both heal from my decisions. I recognize problems in myself that led to me cheating instead of just being a mature adult and handling it differently.
^This^ is the heavy lifting that YOU rightfully own. Having said that...

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Originally Posted by rrhouse View Post
At the same time I feel like he his now blaming his 50% of our marital issues pre-affair on the affair itself, and now refusing to acknowledge them.
The affair and the crappy state of the marriage prior to the affair need to be addressed separately. If he fails to recognize and acknowledge this, he'll never own up to the heavy lifting that HE rightfully owns.

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Originally Posted by rrhouse View Post
Because of this, we're in the same place we were before, and this time I'm not cheating. I'm just miserable. Even if he did forgive me, if the marriage continues like this, I can't stay. I've been told over and over that it's abuse, and I can't deal with it.
Nor should you be expected to do so.

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Originally Posted by rrhouse View Post
He is going to have to make some realizations about himself and make some changes as well.[/B]
Yep.

Virginia: "Why can't you kids leave well enough alone? Everything was fine until you started digging around."

Burt: "You sound like a Scooby Doo villain."

Last edited by GusPolinski; 01-12-2015 at 03:02 PM.
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post #4 of 228 (permalink) Old 01-12-2015, 03:45 PM
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Re: One Sided "Reconciliation"- I am WW

I get the feeling that he is still VERY much hurting from the affair. Naturally no one could really blame him, but ultimately he needs (for his own sake!) to find a way to forgive you. He doesn't have to recommit to the marriage if he doesn't want to, but it's in everyone's best interest that he ultimately find peace in the situation.

All you can do is do everything you can to try to help him heal, to show remorse, go full NC, open up your life with no secrets, etc. While in the early stages if he slips up and gets overly angry (verbally ONLY, never physical) then you can do your best to let it slide a bit. Ultimately however, there has to be a point in time where he has to make a decision, and inappropriate anger becomes unacceptable.

At five months since D-Day (the latest one), I think he's behaving very inappropriately:

1. Still calling you a ****, months after the adultery has come out and you've been making efforts to help him heal, is COMPLETELY wrong. I can understand him losing his cool and saying that when he first found out, but now? No way, never ok.
2. Since he acknowledges that this pregnancy is his baby, I don't care how he feels about you, he needs to be supportive of everything related to the pregnancy. Meaning he might not yet be comfortable living with you yet or cuddling in bed or anything, but he better be at as many of those baby doctor appointments as possible, assist with post-baby planning, helping with the bills, etc.
3. After five months, he needs to have made a decision of some kind regarding the marriage. The status quo is simply unacceptable. That can be as simple as "Let's try again." or "Let's get a divorce and draw up a custody plan" or even "I want to fix our marriage, but I'm not ready to live together yet, so let's set up a plan with a marriage counselor to help us get to that point." Limbo isn't good for anyone.

Understand that, as the cheater, the situation SHOULD be somewhat uncomfortable for you, but there is a line between the the struggles that accompany rebuilding trust with a betrayed partner or divorcing that partner, and outright abuse. Him calling you names, abandoning his responsibilities (to his children, not his marriage), is not acceptable and you do not have to put up with that.

I would suggest trying to erect those boundaries. If he wants to review your phone? That's ok. If he wants to ask where you are at any given moment? That's ok. If he wants to confirm that you are where you say you are, that's ok. If he calls you a ****? That's absolutely not ok. It's ok to draw a few lines in the sand and let him know that while you understand his pain and his grief, and you want to help him heal as best you can, but you will not endure such abuse.

If you can get him into MC together, I would push for a resolution, one way or the other. If not, I would be honest and tell him that you need resolution on the situation, and are willing to accept the result either way. It might give him a little wake up call. After five months (or longer with D-Day #1 counting), he's become accustomed to being in the drivers seat and feeling somewhat self righteous. Being told that it's decision time can wake you up.
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post #5 of 228 (permalink) Old 01-12-2015, 09:52 PM
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Re: One Sided "Reconciliation"- I am WW

Wait for a while, at least a few months after the baby's born to see if he's coping any better. If not, make the decision for him. Set him free.
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post #6 of 228 (permalink) Old 01-12-2015, 10:38 PM
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Re: One Sided "Reconciliation"- I am WW

rrhouse,

Would you say you're impatient for the situation to be fixed?
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post #7 of 228 (permalink) Old 01-12-2015, 11:19 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GusPolinski View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrhouse View Post
I guess what I'm saying is that I keep hearing this:

50% of the state of the marriage pre-affair is the responsibility of the WS, 50% is the responsibility of the BS. 100% of the affair is the responsibility of the WS.
It's important to note that, while this is a general rule, it isn't something that's set in stone. After all, these numbers are likely to be skewed to some degree in most situations, even if the spread is something as slight as 50.1/49.9. And, in some cases, it's probably as severe at 90/10. (And, to be clear, I'm not saying that the WS will always own the larger share... not at all.)

Anyway, in the more extreme cases, any "blame" leveled at the party to whom the lesser share belongs may very well be due solely to the fact that he or she went along and put up w/ the status quo as opposed to addressing (or, at the very least, attempting to address) the problems in the marriage. And, of course, that's assuming that he or she didn't do so/attempt to do so.

Own your bullsh*t and insist that he do the same. He doesn't get a free pass for treating you like sh*t either before OR after the affair (and certainly not both before AND after), and anyone telling him that he should is toxic to both him and to your marriage.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrhouse View Post
I feel like I'm doing a lot of the heavy lifting to help us both heal from my decisions. I recognize problems in myself that led to me cheating instead of just being a mature adult and handling it differently.
^This^ is the heavy lifting that YOU rightfully own. Having said that...

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrhouse View Post
At the same time I feel like he his now blaming his 50% of our marital issues pre-affair on the affair itself, and now refusing to acknowledge them.
The affair and the crappy state of the marriage prior to the affair need to be addressed separately. If he fails to recognize and acknowledge this, he'll never own up to the heavy lifting that HE rightfully owns.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrhouse View Post
Because of this, we're in the same place we were before, and this time I'm not cheating. I'm just miserable. Even if he did forgive me, if the marriage continues like this, I can't stay. I've been told over and over that it's abuse, and I can't deal with it.
Nor should you be expected to do so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rrhouse View Post
He is going to have to make some realizations about himself and make some changes as well.[/B]
Yep.


Thanks for the response, GP, as it's always appreciated. I wasn't adhering to a strict formula but I do feel that each partner in a marriage should reflect on the issues that occurred pre-affair and think about how they can each improve. What goes on between a couple before one partner cheats is never an excuse to cheat, but usually the marriage needed work before anything happened.

My husband briefly made some personal changes regarding alcoholism and verbal abuse, but when it became too much of a challenge for him, he quickly came up with excuses for his pre-affair behavior that mostly have to do with me being a wh**re.

Example:
Me: "The fact that you call me just as many names before I cheated as you do now hurts me."

Him: "Well, you ended up cheating on me, so was I wrong?"

Some days he'll acknowledge how wrong it is to talk to another human being this way, other times he'll deny it. The free pass thing is interesting to me, because I said something similar to him, and he whole-heartedly believes he does have a free pass to do absolutely whatever he wants.

This includes drinking profusely, name calling, looking at the hookup section of Craigslist, looking up massage parlors, taking pictures of strange women's butts while out drinking (unbeknownst to said strange women, which is even creepier), leaving the house without warning, etc. And I have no right to be upset about any of it.
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post #8 of 228 (permalink) Old 01-12-2015, 11:24 PM
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Re: One Sided "Reconciliation"- I am WW

Isn't your H the one that keeps pictures of your POSs on his phone?
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post #9 of 228 (permalink) Old 01-12-2015, 11:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: One Sided "Reconciliation"- I am WW

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Isn't your H the one that keeps pictures of your POSs on his phone?
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YES. While it drives me crazy, I did have a talk with him about it and I sort of get what he's doing. He says he does it because it desensitizes him to the situation. I don't know how true that is, but it kind of makes sense. Before, the picture was of my butt in the panties I wore on our wedding day that said Mrs. __.

While he did change that picture to the POS's out of spite, he said it hurt him so much to see that picture of his name on me, because I am no longer "his", if that makes sense. Also, seeing the men every day lessens the chances of a trigger that might set him off. It's just a twinge of hurt many times a day, rather than an explosion every so often. I personally don't feel that it's unhealthy, but if that's what he wants, it's his phone/ his healing process, so... I can't really ask him to remove it.
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post #10 of 228 (permalink) Old 01-12-2015, 11:39 PM Thread Starter
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Re: One Sided "Reconciliation"- I am WW

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rrhouse,

Would you say you're impatient for the situation to be fixed?

Impatient for the situation to be fixed? No. Not at all.

In fact, every time he says he feels like people are expecting him to hurry up and get over it, I have to remind him that I never asked him to get over it. This is not something you just get over.

I'm asking him to commit to moving forward or declare that he can't forgive me. Just make a decision either way. We're currently not in any real reconciliation. In fact he has barely spoken to me for several days because I asked if he wants to see an ultrasound picture.

I'm also asking him to make a decision regarding our unborn child. I've been quiet for 7 out of 9 months, and I'm gently pushing him to make a decision. The baby has no name, he hasn't been to a single appointment, and he refuses to look at ultrasound pictures. The baby also has no nursery, although he did clear out our office a few months ago. He filled up the empty space with thousands of dollars of new music equipment and put the crib mattress in a corner. It's his "recording studio".

I understand that reconciliation will take time. I'm prepared to work at this for years. However long it takes. But for this to move forward, he has to commit. No back and forth bs.

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post #11 of 228 (permalink) Old 01-12-2015, 11:48 PM Thread Starter
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Re: One Sided "Reconciliation"- I am WW

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I get the feeling that he is still VERY much hurting from the affair. Naturally no one could really blame him, but ultimately he needs (for his own sake!) to find a way to forgive you. He doesn't have to recommit to the marriage if he doesn't want to, but it's in everyone's best interest that he ultimately find peace in the situation.

All you can do is do everything you can to try to help him heal, to show remorse, go full NC, open up your life with no secrets, etc. While in the early stages if he slips up and gets overly angry (verbally ONLY, never physical) then you can do your best to let it slide a bit. Ultimately however, there has to be a point in time where he has to make a decision, and inappropriate anger becomes unacceptable.

At five months since D-Day (the latest one), I think he's behaving very inappropriately:

1. Still calling you a ****, months after the adultery has come out and you've been making efforts to help him heal, is COMPLETELY wrong. I can understand him losing his cool and saying that when he first found out, but now? No way, never ok.
2. Since he acknowledges that this pregnancy is his baby, I don't care how he feels about you, he needs to be supportive of everything related to the pregnancy. Meaning he might not yet be comfortable living with you yet or cuddling in bed or anything, but he better be at as many of those baby doctor appointments as possible, assist with post-baby planning, helping with the bills, etc.
3. After five months, he needs to have made a decision of some kind regarding the marriage. The status quo is simply unacceptable. That can be as simple as "Let's try again." or "Let's get a divorce and draw up a custody plan" or even "I want to fix our marriage, but I'm not ready to live together yet, so let's set up a plan with a marriage counselor to help us get to that point." Limbo isn't good for anyone.

Understand that, as the cheater, the situation SHOULD be somewhat uncomfortable for you, but there is a line between the the struggles that accompany rebuilding trust with a betrayed partner or divorcing that partner, and outright abuse. Him calling you names, abandoning his responsibilities (to his children, not his marriage), is not acceptable and you do not have to put up with that.

I would suggest trying to erect those boundaries. If he wants to review your phone? That's ok. If he wants to ask where you are at any given moment? That's ok. If he wants to confirm that you are where you say you are, that's ok. If he calls you a ****? That's absolutely not ok. It's ok to draw a few lines in the sand and let him know that while you understand his pain and his grief, and you want to help him heal as best you can, but you will not endure such abuse.

If you can get him into MC together, I would push for a resolution, one way or the other. If not, I would be honest and tell him that you need resolution on the situation, and are willing to accept the result either way. It might give him a little wake up call. After five months (or longer with D-Day #1 counting), he's become accustomed to being in the drivers seat and feeling somewhat self righteous. Being told that it's decision time can wake you up.
Thank you so much for your input. You've echoed everything our counselor said. He did go to counseling with me for about a month and said he was committed to reconciliation, but about a week ago he started using phrases like "when we divorce" and "you're going to live with your mom", so I don't know.

I've been seeing the same counselor individually and she said I need to work on creating boundaries and expectations for myself and stop being such a people pleaser. That's what got me into this situation in the first place- seeking approval and lack of boundaries. I'll continue to work with her on these topics while doing all I can to help him heal.

I have always said that as long as he's still in, I'm still in. In counseling I said that I'm willing to give him until the baby is born to decide- I think that's fair. But I will not force someone to be with me if they hate me, even if he thinks that's whats best for our daughter(s). That sets a horrible example for both of them.

He is becoming more agitated with the situation lately because he knows the pressure is on to make a decision. As he says, he is feeling immense pressure as the clock ticks, and he is becoming more and more angry as the time pushes forward. He doesn't talk to anyone about this as far as I know. His best friend came over the other day and kept asking questions about the baby, which tells me my husband didn't say anything to him about how he wants nothing to do with her. I wish he would talk to this specific friend about it, as he is very level-headed and has been a good influence for my husband so far regarding the affair.
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post #12 of 228 (permalink) Old 01-12-2015, 11:53 PM
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Re: One Sided "Reconciliation"- I am WW

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YES. While it drives me crazy, I did have a talk with him about it and I sort of get what he's doing. He says he does it because it desensitizes him to the situation. I don't know how true that is, but it kind of makes sense. Before, the picture was of my butt in the panties I wore on our wedding day that said Mrs. __.

While he did change that picture to the POS's out of spite, he said it hurt him so much to see that picture of his name on me, because I am no longer "his", if that makes sense. Also, seeing the men every day lessens the chances of a trigger that might set him off. It's just a twinge of hurt many times a day, rather than an explosion every so often. I personally don't feel that it's unhealthy, but if that's what he wants, it's his phone/ his healing process, so... I can't really ask him to remove it.
Uhhh... sorry, but that's bullsh*t. And it's not like it's working at all, right? It's nothing more than a way for him to renew his anger every time that he looks at his phone.

And it's not just unhealthy... it's amazingly, foolishly, and recklessly unhealthy.

Virginia: "Why can't you kids leave well enough alone? Everything was fine until you started digging around."

Burt: "You sound like a Scooby Doo villain."
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post #13 of 228 (permalink) Old 01-12-2015, 11:53 PM
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Re: One Sided "Reconciliation"- I am WW

It is unhealthy in the extreme. Listen, I know you're in a tough spot but you have no marriage.

Compare your marriage to a human body. Before you cheated it was sick with pneumonia. So the first time you cheated you took a shotgun and shoved it up the sick persons butt and blew the rectum and intestines up into the lungs. That pretty much killed the patient. That wasn't enough. The second time you cheated you pressed the shotgun to the patient's forehead and blew their brains out.

Your marriage was very sick and you totally killed it.

You two could start a new marriage all over but your H is still dragging the desecrated corpse of your old marriage around complaining about the smell.

I have said it before, just bury your old marriage, it is done.

It is unhealthy for you to remain with him and he isn't healing either.
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post #14 of 228 (permalink) Old 01-13-2015, 12:04 AM
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Re: One Sided "Reconciliation"- I am WW

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Impatient for the situation to be fixed? No. Not at all.

In fact, every time he says he feels like people are expecting him to hurry up and get over it, I have to remind him that I never asked him to get over it. This is not something you just get over.

I'm asking him to commit to moving forward or declare that he can't forgive me. Just make a decision either way. We're currently not in any real reconciliation. In fact he has barely spoken to me for several days because I asked if he wants to see an ultrasound picture.

I'm also asking him to make a decision regarding our unborn child. I've been quiet for 7 out of 9 months, and I'm gently pushing him to make a decision. The baby has no name, he hasn't been to a single appointment, and he refuses to look at ultrasound pictures. The baby also has no nursery, although he did clear out our office a few months ago. He filled up the empty space with thousands of dollars of new music equipment and put the crib mattress in a corner. It's his "recording studio".

I understand that reconciliation will take time. I'm prepared to work at this for years. However long it takes. But for this to move forward, he has to commit. No back and forth bs.
It'll take even longer if it never starts.

And, while I really do hate to lay this on you, your daughter is doubtlessly learning some absolutely horrible lessons in terms of what's acceptable in a marriage, specifically w/ respect to what a wife and mother should be expected to tolerate from her husband and the father of her children.

Virginia: "Why can't you kids leave well enough alone? Everything was fine until you started digging around."

Burt: "You sound like a Scooby Doo villain."
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post #15 of 228 (permalink) Old 01-13-2015, 12:06 AM
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It'll take even longer if it never starts.

And, while I really do hate to lay this on you, your daughter is doubtlessly learning some absolutely horrible lessons in terms of what's acceptable in a marriage, specifically w/ respect to what a wife and mother should be expected to tolerate from her husband and the father of her children.
Yeah! This is bad every which way!
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