Feeling shaky - Page 4 - Talk About Marriage
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post #46 of 71 (permalink) Old 07-21-2016, 07:23 AM
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Re: Feeling shaky

Quote:
Originally Posted by aine View Post
You have an excellent point there.
He says I do not communicate how I feel with him, I do not open up.

I don't because I do not feel safe to and part of me thinks if I verbalise how I feel then there is no going back, so instead I write in journals.

After years of living with him I have learned to keep my innermost heart protected and I cannot open it up, I guess it's a protection mechanism. So I am not being authentic either.

He is also a typical male who will either give
1. a solution
2. convince me that I shouldn't feel like that because of blah blah blah

The bottom line is I don't feel loved at all, he says I've always been the strong one emotionally but I don't want to be anymore. So the problem is probably me as well.

I am not getting what I want and I know I am not giving him what he wants.
It sounds like you are not willing to protect him anymore. That is very good.

The next step will be to be transparent with him.


One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #47 of 71 (permalink) Old 07-21-2016, 10:20 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Feeling shaky

I know that is the next step but I vacillate between wanting to be with him and not be with him, it is hard to explain.

Part of me wants what we once had and think if I put in the effort we can make it work, but then again it will be me putting in the effort. I get little from him except cups of coffee, and chats mostly about his work. Maybe as he said before, he is a shallow person, with little if any emotional depth. I have to come to the realisation, maybe it is not me. As I get older I want more, more meaning, more connection. I know how some walk away wives feel. My heart cries out for the emotional connection but it is met with comments like 'what do you want me to do, you know I have to work' duh so do I!

the other part of me wants justice, justice for all the pain, wasted years. I want him to hurt the way I hurt, to have his heart broken the way mine has been broken.

Does that make sense?
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post #48 of 71 (permalink) Old 07-21-2016, 10:34 AM
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Re: Feeling shaky

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Originally Posted by aine View Post
I know that is the next step but I vacillate between wanting to be with him and not be with him, it is hard to explain.

Part of me wants what we once had and think if I put in the effort we can make it work, but then again it will be me putting in the effort. I get little from him except cups of coffee, and chats mostly about his work. Maybe as he said before, he is a shallow person, with little if any emotional depth. I have to come to the realisation, maybe it is not me. As I get older I want more, more meaning, more connection. I know how some walk away wives feel. My heart cries out for the emotional connection but it is met with comments like 'what do you want me to do, you know I have to work' duh so do I!

the other part of me wants justice, justice for all the pain, wasted years. I want him to hurt the way I hurt, to have his heart broken the way mine has been broken.

Does that make sense?
So you said why you don't want to be with him why do you want to be with him? The justice part is not really a good sign. I get it but I don't think it is helpful. I think if you are going to be in r then you have to give that up because there really is no justice in r. This is part of the reason I could never do it.
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post #49 of 71 (permalink) Old 07-21-2016, 10:48 AM
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Re: Feeling shaky

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Originally Posted by aine View Post
I know that is the next step but I vacillate between wanting to be with him and not be with him, it is hard to explain.

Part of me wants what we once had and think if I put in the effort we can make it work, but then again it will be me putting in the effort. I get little from him except cups of coffee, and chats mostly about his work. Maybe as he said before, he is a shallow person, with little if any emotional depth. I have to come to the realisation, maybe it is not me. As I get older I want more, more meaning, more connection. I know how some walk away wives feel. My heart cries out for the emotional connection but it is met with comments like 'what do you want me to do, you know I have to work' duh so do I!

the other part of me wants justice, justice for all the pain, wasted years. I want him to hurt the way I hurt, to have his heart broken the way mine has been broken.

Does that make sense?
You make sense.

I totally understand not wanting to give up on what you have. It's familiar and you know that it was good once. It's amazing how huge our capacity for hope is.

Maybe, his response is just like a guy's. "I am trying what more do you want. " Not understanding you are struggling and all he needs to do is give you his hand and help pull you up. Maybe, this is all he can give. He has certainly changed since things were good. Now he is a new man, who has had experiences that he did not share with you. This new man might not feel the need to do more. Because he can rely on you.

The strong one who holds everything together and pulls the weight of the entire family structure by herself. So while he is different you have not changed. You are still the same person. Only now you are making demands. Who knows if he can fulfill any of those.

At this stage of your life and marriage, you should be enjoying your marriage. Having great sex. Enjoying ecah other's company and making plans for your retirement together. He should be your friend and companion. You should be loving each other more these days because it's just the two of you now.

I understand your need to make him hurt as much as you. Because you feel that he does not understand what he put you thru or how much you suffer. You might never get him to understand.

Or you can always find your revenge quickly, I have lots of ideas.
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post #50 of 71 (permalink) Old 07-26-2016, 04:04 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Feeling shaky

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Originally Posted by blueinbr View Post
Yes, You are the one with the problem. Don't try to change him. That is controlling and manipulative. He is who he is and he has a right to be himself if not violent or abuse towards you.

You probably married him BECAUSE he was like your father. Now after 20-30 years you want to change your mind?

Either learn to accept him as he is, and love him for the good qualities he has, or divorce him.
when i first read this I didn't like what you are saying. But it's true I have to start looking at his positive qualities and he has many. Yes, I cannot change him.
I asked him if there was anything he wanted from me
he gave me a list of
1. restarting to play an old sport we used to do together (golf)
2. going more on holiday with him ( I stopped over a year and a half ago as he stood me up due to his drinking and I vowed I'd never go alone with him again unless kids were coming)
3. being more involved in his corporate life (how I am not sure, he didnt say - we will have to discuss when I go home)
4 Have more fun (how he wants me to do that, not sure).

I can see why he wants this, as I used to do all of this when I was a stay at home expat wife. Now I work full time and study part time (he wanted me to earn money and I wanted to study for myself) but he has high expectations in terms of time. How can I do all of this?

The thing that bothers me, he never organises anything, I have to organise the holidays, the fun things to do ( i have been doing that, plays, jazz clubs, comedy shows, etc that is all me).

I asked him what was he bringing to the table. His response

1. financial support
2. great sex

Neither 1 nor 2 fully meet my needs at all. I am not at home but need to have a gentle (I tend to be a steam roller) way of saying that this is not what I want and to meet some of his requirements, atm golf is out of the question as I do not have 5 hours at the weekend to spend.

He asked me what i wanted and its a lot less demanding
1. attention/affection
2. a call or text once a day to say he is thinking of me
3. tell me he loves me more often

So my question is

1. how do i tell him I cannot meet his list of requirements completely due to demands on my time
2. he needs to meet some of my needs and financial support and sex doesn't do it for me totally


You may think I am making excuses and sound very unreasonable, but this is a man whom I told recently there was too much disconnect with us and I felt very lonely and his response was
'what do you want me to do, I have to work" as he was working all the time but has time for his mates and to play golf.

My response is to withdraw as I cannot keep going after him, it is just like a merry go round. If I meet his needs which i have for years then he just thinks all is ok, but it is not ok for me anymore. I want more.

He has stopped drinking which is great, but that doesn't suddenly make everything ok.

Maybe as someone told me in another thread, he will never change and I just accept it or move on.

I will never understand this man.
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post #51 of 71 (permalink) Old 07-26-2016, 06:05 AM
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Re: Feeling shaky

Quote:
Originally Posted by aine View Post
I asked him if there was anything he wanted from me
he gave me a list of
1. restarting to play an old sport we used to do together (golf)
2. going more on holiday with him ( I stopped over a year and a half ago as he stood me up due to his drinking and I vowed I'd never go alone with him again unless kids were coming)
3. being more involved in his corporate life (how I am not sure, he didnt say - we will have to discuss when I go home)
4 Have more fun (how he wants me to do that, not sure).

I asked him what was he bringing to the table. His response

1. financial support
2. great sex



He asked me what i wanted and its a lot less demanding
1. attention/affection
2. a call or text once a day to say he is thinking of me
3. tell me he loves me more often

So my question is

1. how do i tell him I cannot meet his list of requirements completely due to demands on my time
2. he needs to meet some of my needs and financial support and sex doesn't do it for me totally

.
Tell him exactly what you said here. You can't spare 5 hours on the weekend to play golf. Your life has changed since those days. You have different demands on your time now. As such, you can't do this.

Just wondering @aine, can you play once a month instead?

You might also give him a task to do. Can you pick an event you would like to do together this weekend? Let him handle the arrangement. Give him the choice to pick what he wants to do. But you don't get to complain about his choices, you just go along with it.

Ask him what he means by being involved in his corp. life? Does he means he wants you to go out with his workmates after work. Or does he want you to host them in your home?(This is just more work for you)
Attend company events? Because I don't see what else you can do about this.

I always imagine you guys sleeping in separate rooms. Just wondering if you are still intimate.

For some men if they are providing for the family and having sex, then life is great. He has thinks that should satisfy you. What he still does not get is that you want closeness and affection.

Do you have the energy to start showing him affection outside of sex, so that maybe he will start reciprocating. Sometimes, I think you need to show them and give them affection in order for them to mirror you.

This must be a lot of work to carry and maintain this marriage. Keep talking to him, have discussions. Don't sound as if you are complaining. Instead let him know you are trying to understand him and you would like for him to understand you.

I have to say, that I am always surprised by how much you are willing to give. Whenever I think you are at the end somehow, you find a way to carry on. That is such a credit to you. At one time you must have loved him so much, I think that is what is still driving you.
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post #52 of 71 (permalink) Old 07-26-2016, 08:24 AM
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Re: Feeling shaky

Quote:
Originally Posted by aine View Post
when i first read this I didn't like what you are saying.

I asked him what was he bringing to the table. His response

1. financial support
2. great sex

He asked me what i wanted and its a lot less demanding
1. attention/affection
2. a call or text once a day to say he is thinking of me
3. tell me he loves me more often

So my question is

1. how do i tell him I cannot meet his list of requirements completely due to demands on my time
2. he needs to meet some of my needs and financial support and sex doesn't do it for me totally
I did not like my post either. I was projecting and I do not follow what I told you. Plus while I knew of you here I did not know your backstory. I scanned your other threads. So I will try to help better with this post.

1. how do i tell him I cannot meet his list of requirements completely due to demands on my time?

Give him your list in order of priority
1. attention/affection
2. a call or text once a day to say he is thinking of me
3. tell me he loves me more often
4. Great sex
5. Financial support

He sees himself as the provider - money and sex. What he wants in return is your admiration and time, as recognition of what he provides. I assume he defines himself by his job. I would be concerned he will be lost when he retires and might not be able to cope.

Both of you have affection as your top language, right? That is ironic since neither of you offer it to the other. You both need to communicate in detail what affection means to you.

Concerning this " 3. being more involved in his corporate life (how I am not sure, he didnt say - we will have to discuss when I go home) 4 Have more fun (how he wants me to do that, not sure). ", why are you not sure? You need to ask him specifically what he means and needs. Likewise, you need to do the same.

Have you ever asked each other "Why do you want to stay married"? If not, try that.
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post #53 of 71 (permalink) Old 07-26-2016, 02:24 PM
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Re: Feeling shaky

Quote:
Originally Posted by aine View Post
1. restarting to play an old sport we used to do together (golf)
2. going more on holiday with him ( I stopped over a year and a half ago as he stood me up due to his drinking and I vowed I'd never go alone with him again unless kids were coming)
3. being more involved in his corporate life (how I am not sure, he didnt say - we will have to discuss when I go home)
4 Have more fun (how he wants me to do that, not sure).

You may think I am making excuses and sound very unreasonable, but this is a man whom I told recently there was too much disconnect with us and I felt very lonely and his response was
'what do you want me to do, I have to work" as he was working all the time but has time for his mates and to play golf.
#4 is easy! Laugh more! Laugh at yourself. Put in a comedy movie at home, pop some popcorn, and laugh away. Go to a comedy club. Like sports? Get some tickets to a game. Like music? Get some tickets to a concert. Go for a bike ride together. On a Sunday, go out for some ice cream! Go to a park for a picnic. Go to a fair or an amusement park.

As for #1-if you can do it once a month, that'd show him that you you're trying to fit it in. Can you try that? Then you should automatically have #4 as well.

As for #3-I'd ask for examples. Maybe he means that he wants to be able to talk to you about the corporate office and that he wants you to be interested in hearing about it. You probably don't, but you should fake it. Ask him about his day at work. Ask him how his meeting with xyz went. Did he have to do a presentation and he was nervous about it (just an example)? Wish him luck in a text then ask him about it afterwards. It shows that you take an interest in what's important to him.

#2-I get this one. You have a summary of my situation as well. He's not drinking so give him another chance with the holidays together. Forgive (not forget). When you go on vacation, you will have #4 in this one too.

I told my H that we had no connection and that I was lonely too. His response was that he didn't know what I wanted. We've had the same conversation many times.

It's good that you both have provided a short list for each other. No, you're not unreasonable. Now that you have a better idea of what he needs and he has a better idea of what you need, make sure that you're working together in providing those needs to each other. It'll take time and practice, but it's doable.
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post #54 of 71 (permalink) Old 07-27-2016, 11:11 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Feeling shaky

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Originally Posted by brooklynAnn View Post
Tell him exactly what you said here. You can't spare 5 hours on the weekend to play golf. Your life has changed since those days. You have different demands on your time now. As such, you can't do this.

Just wondering @aine, can you play once a month instead?

You might also give him a task to do. Can you pick an event you would like to do together this weekend? Let him handle the arrangement. Give him the choice to pick what he wants to do. But you don't get to complain about his choices, you just go along with it.

Ask him what he means by being involved in his corp. life? Does he means he wants you to go out with his workmates after work. Or does he want you to host them in your home?(This is just more work for you)
Attend company events? Because I don't see what else you can do about this.

I always imagine you guys sleeping in separate rooms. Just wondering if you are still intimate.

For some men if they are providing for the family and having sex, then life is great. He has thinks that should satisfy you. What he still does not get is that you want closeness and affection.

Do you have the energy to start showing him affection outside of sex, so that maybe he will start reciprocating. Sometimes, I think you need to show them and give them affection in order for them to mirror you.

This must be a lot of work to carry and maintain this marriage. Keep talking to him, have discussions. Don't sound as if you are complaining. Instead let him know you are trying to understand him and you would like for him to understand you.

I have to say, that I am always surprised by how much you are willing to give. Whenever I think you are at the end somehow, you find a way to carry on. That is such a credit to you. At one time you must have loved him so much, I think that is what is still driving you.
Yes, those are practical steps, I need to be forthright and not be defensive about it.
I could play monthly
Asking him to do anything, he normally messes it up, gets the wrong day, tickets etc honestly. His secretary usually does everything for him as he is so busy, even sending me flowers, booking flights, etc a few times! I don't appreciate that tbh.

I could ask again, see what happens but I wouldn't hold my breath on that one.

I need to work harder on the affection, if I feel unloved I withdraw, he likes affection too. I guess I could be more tactile, he likes that. Maybe I will work on this one first.

I love this man (though he has brought be to hell and back), we have raised two beautiful kids and when things are good, they are very good, I don't want to start over again and bring all my baggage (cause I'm far from perfect) into another relationship. I am still attracted to him, still enjoy his company when we do things together, so I feel I should continue to work on this. He wants to work on things, why would he give up drink, go to IC and MC if he weren't serious and he told me I was the one. (This has helped alot)

We might live for another 45 years, so why not.

Incidentally, things must be improving because if you looked at my threads of over a year ago, I would never have wrote this, my feet were heading out the door, so progress I think, as I genuinely mean this.
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post #55 of 71 (permalink) Old 07-27-2016, 12:44 PM
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Re: Feeling shaky

Have you guys done the Emotional Needs and Love Busters questionnaires from Harley? It sounds like they would give you two exactly the information you need to hash this out.

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post #56 of 71 (permalink) Old 07-27-2016, 03:43 PM
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Re: Feeling shaky

Quote:
Originally Posted by aine View Post
I know that is the next step but I vacillate between wanting to be with him and not be with him, it is hard to explain.

Part of me wants what we once had and think if I put in the effort we can make it work, but then again it will be me putting in the effort. I get little from him except cups of coffee, and chats mostly about his work. Maybe as he said before, he is a shallow person, with little if any emotional depth. I have to come to the realisation, maybe it is not me. As I get older I want more, more meaning, more connection. I know how some walk away wives feel. My heart cries out for the emotional connection but it is met with comments like 'what do you want me to do, you know I have to work' duh so do I!

the other part of me wants justice, justice for all the pain, wasted years. I want him to hurt the way I hurt, to have his heart broken the way mine has been broken.

Does that make sense?
Yep, it does make sense.

Justice and revenge are two different things. Revenge can make you have more guilt. Justice doesn't.

If you choose not to work on the marriage, I hope you choose justice. You will be a better woman for it.

Even, it [justice] is as the sun on a flat plain; uneven, it strikes like the sun on a thicket —Malay proverb
2.Injustice … gathers like dust under everything —Rainer Maria Rilke
3.Just as a sentence meted out by a kangaroo court —Anon
4.Justice … inevitable as the law of cause and effect —L. P. Hartley
5.Justice is like a train that’s nearly always late —Yevgeny Yevtushenko
6.Justice is like the kingdom of God; it is not without us as a fact, it is within us as a great yearning —George Eliot
7.Shed justice like paladins —Jonathan Valin
8.The tongue of the just is as choice silver —The Holy Bible/Proverbs
9.An unrectified case of injustice has a terrible way of lingering … like an unfinished equation —Mary McCarthy
10.We will not be satisfied until justice rolls down like waters and righteousness like a mighty stream —Martin Luther King Jr., speech, June 15, 1963
This is from King’s famous “I Have a Dream” speech.

11.Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains. Your judgments are like the great deep —The Holy Bible/Psalms
‘Your’ replaces the biblical ‘thy.’
Justice - definition of justice by The Free Dictionary




Revenge is a kind of wild justice, which the more a man’s nature runs to, the more ought law to weed it out —Francis Bacon
2.Revenge is like a boomerang. Although for a time it flies in the direction in which it is hurled, it takes a sudden curve, and, returning, hits your own head the heaviest blow of all —John M. Mason
3.Revenge is often like biting a dog because the dog bit you —Austin O’Malley
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/revenge

"I'm significant!! Screamed the dust speck." - Bill Watterson

"And this, too, shall pass away."
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post #57 of 71 (permalink) Old 07-28-2016, 02:24 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Feeling shaky

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Originally Posted by turnera View Post
Have you guys done the Emotional Needs and Love Busters questionnaires from Harley? It sounds like they would give you two exactly the information you need to hash this out.
We printed everything off, and had a go but didn't pursue it. He is jaded by the check lists as we did an intense course which highlighted all the problems and left him reeling. So I don't want to push more on him, just work with the MC for now. The MC suggested we read Harville Hendrix - getting the love you want
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post #58 of 71 (permalink) Old 07-28-2016, 07:54 AM
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Re: Feeling shaky

Hendrix's book is about why we pick the partner we pick. It will teach him that he married you to fill a hole in his heart that his parents dug, to fix the pain. We pick a partner who is like the person who hurt us as a child, hoping that the partner will 'change' and stop being that person and do right by us and thus heal us.

Only problem is, the other person is doing it, too. Subconsciously, of course. You've heard the statement "I married my mother/father." And once the PEA chemicals are gone and you're no longer love-blind, and once you realize the other person is NOT going to change and stop being like your parent, you start to build resentment at them for not fixing you. And vice versa.

All very deep subconscious, of course.

The second half of the book, though, is a fix-it manual for marriages, so that might help. But do read the first half together first.

AS for the questionnaires from Harley, you really need to have read the book first to understand why you're doing them. Did you?
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post #59 of 71 (permalink) Old 07-29-2016, 04:39 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Feeling shaky

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Hendrix's book is about why we pick the partner we pick. It will teach him that he married you to fill a hole in his heart that his parents dug, to fix the pain. We pick a partner who is like the person who hurt us as a child, hoping that the partner will 'change' and stop being that person and do right by us and thus heal us.

Only problem is, the other person is doing it, too. Subconsciously, of course. You've heard the statement "I married my mother/father." And once the PEA chemicals are gone and you're no longer love-blind, and once you realize the other person is NOT going to change and stop being like your parent, you start to build resentment at them for not fixing you. And vice versa.

All very deep subconscious, of course.

The second half of the book, though, is a fix-it manual for marriages, so that might help. But do read the first half together first.

AS for the questionnaires from Harley, you really need to have read the book first to understand why you're doing them. Did you?
I've listened to 7 principles of marriage but haven't read Getting the Love you want, (haven't done my homework) neither has he. We are both overseas (for a month) in different countries (partly work related) so no time for doing that.
I have read so much and feel I do most of the reading and cajoling, now I want a break from it and do things for me. We meet our MC in a few weeks time when we get back so I'll see what she says. This last week we have spoken to each other or text each other every day, we discussed us too and I told him how I feel about everything, it was a good discussion and we are making progress.

But when you have been hurt as deeply as I have been it is difficult to trust and let go again, I know that takes a lot of time. For example, the going on the holiday thing is a problem for me. He let me down badly over a year and half ago and I ended going alone on the holiday that i had planned and paid for anyway. If it is brought up he turns it into a joke but it is still a painful for me, I guess he tries to minimize it, so I have refused to go on holidays alone although he has suggested it a few times.
Part of me thinks that sometimes a spouse just loses the privilege of having certain parts of the other spouse as a consequence of their actions. I told him that he will never have all of my heart again because that is exactly how I feel, he has my love but not my whole heart. He doesn't deserve it. This is what I struggle with as I am an all or nothing type of gal

I will go for dinners, movies, plays, etc but the holiday thing is a huge stumbling block for me right now. I have been on holidays with my girl friends and am planning another one for early next year without him. I could tell he was a bit miffed but he has to do a hell of a lot more in terms of progress before I will ever let him take me for granted again.
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post #60 of 71 (permalink) Old 08-05-2016, 12:36 AM
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Re: Feeling shaky

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Originally Posted by brooklynAnn View Post
You make sense.

I totally understand not wanting to give up on what you have. It's familiar and you know that it was good once. It's amazing how huge our capacity for hope is.

Maybe, his response is just like a guy's. "I am trying what more do you want. " Not understanding you are struggling and all he needs to do is give you his hand and help pull you up. Maybe, this is all he can give. He has certainly changed since things were good. Now he is a new man, who has had experiences that he did not share with you. This new man might not feel the need to do more. Because he can rely on you.

The strong one who holds everything together and pulls the weight of the entire family structure by herself. So while he is different you have not changed. You are still the same person. Only now you are making demands. Who knows if he can fulfill any of those.

At this stage of your life and marriage, you should be enjoying your marriage. Having great sex. Enjoying ecah other's company and making plans for your retirement together. He should be your friend and companion. You should be loving each other more these days because it's just the two of you now.

I understand your need to make him hurt as much as you. Because you feel that he does not understand what he put you thru or how much you suffer. You might never get him to understand.

Or you can always find your revenge quickly, I have lots of ideas.
I really liked this post until the Devil Card fell out of your Freudian Slip........ smelling of female musk and Slap-the-Stick Guile Smiles.

This....This is the nub of the stick that pokes me in the eye when the light of day energizes my optic nerve....SunCMars.... The Allegory of the Cave--> On this, I did a '180' and stepped out.

The Lion in Winter. Invictus..By Will, Shall... Saved from harm by my friends.
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