Going Crazy Trying to figure out things - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
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post #16 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-13-2016, 01:16 PM
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

It's been a few years now. We were officially divorced and living apart for 6+ months before had a long talk.

Honestly, it probably wouldn't work at all for me if I wasn't sure that nothing actually happened. There's something strangely comforting about not worrying about it because if something feels off, and I see something I don't like I can just kind of walk away, and at the same time knowing that we each have to stay engaged with the other and not take anything for granted. I don't know, it just works for me. I think she likes it less, but understands and is more of the "better this way than nothing"

Mostly, I just view it as legal detanglement, for lack of a better term. No different than if someone was to do a post-nup, really. We live together but have separate finances etc, and if we want to split, there's really nothing to haggle over, that's already been done.

It's really far more complicated than this, but it's the TL;DR version of the cluster that was my life for a while.

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post #17 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-13-2016, 04:10 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

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Originally Posted by dubsey View Post
My situation was relatively similar to yours. In the end, I chose to get divorced, due to my own inabilities to trust. After she went out of her way to deceive me about meeting up with someone for coffee (I found out before it, so it never actually happened), I told her I was unwilling to have to spend my life verifying stuff, and we got divorced.

Our marriage was very very good, outside of that, and I'll freely admit, the issue was more mine than hers, but it was a line I wasn't willing to cross.

Time went by, and we're back together now, but I'll never marry again. If she doesn't want to be here, she's free to leave at any time, and so am I. It works for us because now we both have to be invested in what we have in order to keep it.

I don't know if this helps, or gives you any other ideas, but this was that path that worked for me.

I would like to hear more of your story. Did you contact her at all while apart? Did she make you question your decision initially? Why was the issue more yours than hers? Had there been other times she lied to you? Do you have children? Was there a specific turning point for you and how did you stay focused on what you wanted to do? My problem is she can cry me right into thinking I am crazy. I have no illusions that somehow I will find someone I am as attracted to as my wife- she has aged so well and I think she just gets better with age- but I do think I can find someone I can trust a lot more. There are so many women that would kill to be treated the way I treat her- all her sisters regularly say they are jealous.

We could PM if you prefer.
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post #18 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-13-2016, 04:22 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

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Originally Posted by TheTruthHurts View Post
Time to put the cards on the table.

She could also be codependent and need external validation. In other words she may seek attention - even inappropriate attention - then hide it so as to avoid hurting you (that's the codependency).

But it's time to clear your thoughts, make a list of what is acceptable and unacceptable, view your situation from a third party perspectives, and then give that guy some advice.

It sounds like you actually know what you want and need. I suggested writing it down because you just said you get muddled brain after a few days because of the sex. Well, be more objective and take your time to organize your thoughts on paper.

You can then share them with us or in IC. An independent view will help validate your position and help with your resolve. Also point out holes, unreasonable perspectives, etc.

Good luck and get to it


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I really like this. I will work on those thoughts and the list and get back with you!
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post #19 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-13-2016, 04:49 PM
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

bremik, the hardest thing for you to do now is accept that you are hopelessly consumed with your wife and your happiness depends on her, not yourself. I know the blissful moments keep you hooked but the brutality gets worse. She can't be transparent. She just can't. Say it 1000 times. Stare at Waterhouse's The Siren and it might sink in. Your mental health relies on you extracting yourself.

Consolation? She'll be like this with everyone in her future.
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post #20 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-13-2016, 05:20 PM
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

Forgot to say, the deer in the headlights comment, this is when she's caught on a lie or deception. Do her pupils dilate and her eyes go glassy? That's her mind going into cognitive overload trying to get out of the sh't. She'll spin more and more lies. She can't help it. That part of her brain is malfunctioning.

It's sick that 'that look' is when their allure is the strongest. I found it irresistible. You have to turn away or the cycle continues.
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post #21 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-13-2016, 05:38 PM
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

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Originally Posted by bremik View Post
I would like to hear more of your story. Did you contact her at all while apart? Did she make you question your decision initially? Why was the issue more yours than hers? Had there been other times she lied to you? Do you have children? Was there a specific turning point for you and how did you stay focused on what you wanted to do? My problem is she can cry me right into thinking I am crazy. I have no illusions that somehow I will find someone I am as attracted to as my wife- she has aged so well and I think she just gets better with age- but I do think I can find someone I can trust a lot more. There are so many women that would kill to be treated the way I treat her- all her sisters regularly say they are jealous.

We could PM if you prefer.
I could write a small novel, but again, the TL;DR version

She started contacting an ex in a fit of retroactive jealousy, after she'd met up with an ex of mine that I hadn't seen or heard from in 15 years. They chatted a lot, and it was pretty apparent the ex still carried a torch, even though she was the one that broke it off. So, she started chatting with her ex, allegedly, just to see if she could create the same kind of pull. Anyway, I found out because her iMessages would come through on the iPad. I gave her a bunch of outs, but when she left to have coffee with him, after I offered to go with to "run errands", I texted her a screen shot of the IMs with "I tried to stop you. We're done." So, the lies were too much, plus she's very "responsive desire" so yeah, dangerous game she was trying to play and I wasn't - I'm still not really ok with it.

So, the trust issues are mine. She begged and pleaded, but I had a really rough childhood - like make you ugly cry watching it at a movie childhood, so trust isn't easy with me, and I just knew I couldn't handle the lies. We never fought or anything, but I just couldn't handle it, so, we got divorced. We do have a kid, so there was always contact throughout the process. We were good co-parents and outside of the embarrassment of "what happened" around town, everything was ok. So, 6 months or so after it was all official, we kind of got back together after a long car ride. First overnight camp for our son was 4 hours away, so we were 4 hours alone in the car on the way back just talking, about what bothered her and made her do it - what she wanted from me, etc. I think car rides are better than pillow talk to discuss really important stuff. You can't really leave the room.

So, yeah, that's the quick-ish version. Like I said, she knows we'll never re-marry. I just don't want to do it, but I was never unhappy with the life we had, but it's somehow easier for me now. There doesn't need to be a big event for either of us to say "this isn't working" and we're done, so it kind of forces us to show each other that we want to continue with what we have every day/week/month/whatever.
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post #22 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-13-2016, 05:41 PM
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

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Originally Posted by TAM2013 View Post
Forgot to say, the deer in the headlights comment, this is when she's caught on a lie or deception. Do her pupils dilate and her eyes go glassy? That's her mind going into cognitive overload trying to get out of the sh't. She'll spin more and more lies. She can't help it. That part of her brain is malfunctioning.



It's sick that 'that look' is when their allure is the strongest. I found it irresistible. You have to turn away or the cycle continues.
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I may have missed it but did OP say she cheated? If he only suspects and she isn't transparent it might be salvageable.

The clergy pointed out her need for external validation. Ask @blueinbr about that. He'll tell you that some women feed off of that and never intend to take any action. And OP said otherwise things are good (unless I'm mixing posts). So her deer in headlights look could be related to the deceit and shame related to trolling for attention, rather than infidelity. And finally, OP has confessed to being wishy washy and lacking followthrough in setting boundaries and consequences.

For those reasons I'd like OP to take another crack at it. There are notable successes on TAM of spouses coming around when confronted with a resolute partner. Lonely Husband is an example.


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post #23 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-13-2016, 06:05 PM
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

She doesn't respect you or your boundaries, because she knows you're too fearful to enforce those boundaries. Without respect, how can a marriage survive? A wife needs to respect her husband, and vice versa, but you have none of it at the moment. She pushes the envelope for 9-10 out of the 24 years because she knows she can. Did the affair go physical?

Tell her something like this:

"Wife, we both know you don't respect me or the boundaries I require of you. You know how much I love you and you take advantage of that to push those boundaries. Well, I'm tired of it all. I don't want to do this anymore. I am tired of looking over your shoulder to see if you're behaving with integrity when I'm not around, so expect to be served sometime this week. A wife with questionable integrity is of little value to me, regardless of how attractive or educated she is. I can definitely replace you, as I know there are many women out there who would kill to be treated the way I treat you. Even your own sisters have said how jealous they are of you, so you are definitely replaceable. I want to grow old with a safe partner, and if it ends up that when we die, we don't get buried next to each other, then so be it. I've been trying to keep this marriage together for years, and I'm tired of fighting for us."

Have her served at work. (consequence #1)
Give her a 50/50 divorce at most and DO NOT TAKE ON ALL HER DEBT! (consequence #2)
Do the 180. Keep the conversation limited to the divorce and kids only. Keep it short and pithy and no chit-chat. (consequence #3)
Get a life without her: go out, overhaul your wardrobe, hang out with friends. (consequence #4)
Stop having sex with her! (consequence #5)

You have to get back your self-respect.

Last edited by becareful2; 10-13-2016 at 06:09 PM.
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post #24 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-13-2016, 06:06 PM
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

Quote:
Originally Posted by dubsey View Post
I could write a small novel, but again, the TL;DR version

She started contacting an ex in a fit of retroactive jealousy, after she'd met up with an ex of mine that I hadn't seen or heard from in 15 years. They chatted a lot, and it was pretty apparent the ex still carried a torch, even though she was the one that broke it off. So, she started chatting with her ex, allegedly, just to see if she could create the same kind of pull. Anyway, I found out because her iMessages would come through on the iPad. I gave her a bunch of outs, but when she left to have coffee with him, after I offered to go with to "run errands", I texted her a screen shot of the IMs with "I tried to stop you. We're done." So, the lies were too much, plus she's very "responsive desire" so yeah, dangerous game she was trying to play and I wasn't - I'm still not really ok with it.

So, the trust issues are mine. She begged and pleaded, but I had a really rough childhood - like make you ugly cry watching it at a movie childhood, so trust isn't easy with me, and I just knew I couldn't handle the lies. We never fought or anything, but I just couldn't handle it, so, we got divorced. We do have a kid, so there was always contact throughout the process. We were good co-parents and outside of the embarrassment of "what happened" around town, everything was ok. So, 6 months or so after it was all official, we kind of got back together after a long car ride. First overnight camp for our son was 4 hours away, so we were 4 hours alone in the car on the way back just talking, about what bothered her and made her do it - what she wanted from me, etc. I think car rides are better than pillow talk to discuss really important stuff. You can't really leave the room.

So, yeah, that's the quick-ish version. Like I said, she knows we'll never re-marry. I just don't want to do it, but I was never unhappy with the life we had, but it's somehow easier for me now. There doesn't need to be a big event for either of us to say "this isn't working" and we're done, so it kind of forces us to show each other that we want to continue with what we have every day/week/month/whatever.
Did your wife got together with her ex or anybody else during the 6 months you were apart?
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post #25 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-13-2016, 07:01 PM
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

we were apart for more than 6 months. it was 6 months after we were officially divorced.

I never asked, and I won't. She has more than once voluntarily insist she didn't. I don't care. We weren't together, so it's really none of my business. It really wasn't about any interest she had in her ex other than she wanted to see if she could still make him interested, because my ex was still interested in me, I guess.

For me, it was about the lie. If she said she wanted to go have coffee with him, I'd have been fine with it. We see him around town from time to time. He's a nice enough guy.

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post #26 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-14-2016, 04:25 AM
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

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Originally Posted by TheTruthHurts View Post
I may have missed it but did OP say she cheated? If he only suspects and she isn't transparent it might be salvageable.

The clergy pointed out her need for external validation. Ask @blueinbr about that. He'll tell you that some women feed off of that and never intend to take any action. And OP said otherwise things are good (unless I'm mixing posts). So her deer in headlights look could be related to the deceit and shame related to trolling for attention, rather than infidelity. And finally, OP has confessed to being wishy washy and lacking followthrough in setting boundaries and consequences.

For those reasons I'd like OP to take another crack at it. There are notable successes on TAM of spouses coming around when confronted with a resolute partner. Lonely Husband is an example.
Yes, very clever. The bolded has been my experience with these women, not necessarily that they cheated. But once they've blind sided you and proved they're dishonest, how can you believe a word they say? And their desperation for attention gets them in to situations where infidelity is possible. It becomes like it's inevitable.

No pvssy is worth your mental health.

Last edited by TAM2013; 10-14-2016 at 04:30 AM.
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post #27 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-14-2016, 09:19 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

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Originally Posted by TheTruthHurts View Post
I may have missed it but did OP say she cheated? If he only suspects and she isn't transparent it might be salvageable.

The clergy pointed out her need for external validation. Ask @blueinbr about that. He'll tell you that some women feed off of that and never intend to take any action. And OP said otherwise things are good (unless I'm mixing posts). So her deer in headlights look could be related to the deceit and shame related to trolling for attention, rather than infidelity. And finally, OP has confessed to being wishy washy and lacking followthrough in setting boundaries and consequences.

For those reasons I'd like OP to take another crack at it. There are notable successes on TAM of spouses coming around when confronted with a resolute partner. Lonely Husband is an example.


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The cheating question is the million dollar question. Both you and TAM2013 are a very few that think it is possible she is hooked on the attention with no intent of cheating. I wholeheartedly agree that it totally sets her up for trouble whether she intended it or not. I honestly have no idea. My best guess is she has done it enough and long enough to the wrong people that they have tried to pursue further action. I just know I am tired of worrying about it and having to always check up on her.
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post #28 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-14-2016, 09:26 AM
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

Bremik ~
Oh my, she is treating you horribly.
No wonder you feel like you're going crazy.
Is it worth it?
VH
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post #29 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-14-2016, 09:38 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

So here is my checklist of what I want to talk about and what I don't know how to pursue.

1. I want to know what went on in college. I never questioned trust then but now I do think I should question it. I also don't want a marriage based on a lie. If she did cheat with who I consider the worst one and repeated problem of all these issues then I feel like I have a right to know. Something went on I just don't know what.

2. I want to know what was in the texts that were all erased with her current coworker. I also want to know what was said or done that got them stopped immediately and made them switch to emails. Something was bad enough in those texts to be erased.

PROBLEM- As has been mentioned in other topics on TAM- if she hasn't confessed yet she is very likely not to now. So don't know if I can get anywhere with these.

I have been lied more than once to about whether or not she was in the office, why she was going on a totally unrelated trip with a judging team she had volunteered to help with before, not telling me she was going to lunch with the male coworker. All these I want answers to as to why I was lied to.

PROBLEM- Do the same issues mentioned above apply here? Meaning - is she likely to tell me?

So here is my problem. The likelihood of her being able or wanting to answer my questions is not real promising. How do I proceed from here. The going to lunch with the coworker happened after I told her she needed to be transparent or it might be time to separate. I do like the idea that you can always get back together if a separation/divorce occurs- in fact come to think of it my sister has been divorced 2x from the same guy and is back with him! It is just taking that step if it is truly needed.

My problem is I think she likes the attention with no desire to go away from me. There is more than enough evidence to suggest she has been at the very least in very dangerous territory. 99% of the people on here think she has cheated. I agree I can't MAKE her come around or influence how she thinks and it was a great point to make. I also agree my happiness is too dependent on her which I am guessing is why this is so hard for me to make a move. But it is also consuming me too much. I am jealous of Dubsey- you seem to be in a good place and it does seem there are common themes between my wife and your ex. I just don't know how to get to the point you are at.

The whole idea of separating just feels to me like I am standing on a cliff with my wife telling her we will have to jump if she doesn't get this figured out. I know it won't be good and could be permanent damage. It kills me that she isn't thinking about that- and it all could be just because she likes attention. I have overlooked and done everything I can to not be on that cliff yet here we are. I can't shake the deep down thought that she is just being dumb about all this but as said before- the grass is starting to look a little greener on the other side-

Last edited by bremik; 10-14-2016 at 09:46 AM.
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post #30 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-14-2016, 09:48 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

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Bremik ~
Oh my, she is treating you horribly.
No wonder you feel like you're going crazy.
Is it worth it?
VH
I don't know if it's worth it. Trying to give some kind of last chance but don't know if I should or how.
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