Going Crazy Trying to figure out things - Talk About Marriage
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post #1 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-12-2016, 08:48 AM Thread Starter
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Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

It has been awhile since I have posted. Basically, thanks to many PM from members here I tried to set boundaries for my wife specifically with a current coworker and wanted to make clear that honesty was the key to moving forward. Her chatter with him continues through emails which are hard to retrieve due to being deleted etc. I haven't found anything huge but they aren't 100% business either. Jokes or general chit chat. The point would be he was identified as a problem and contact with him was to be limited to professional only since they do work together.

The biggie was he invited my wife to go to lunch with him and another female coworker who was leaving. I only found this through an ERASED email that it was asked and never saw her response though I know she did go. Part of the problem was her office already had a going away party for the person so why he felt it necessary to go to lunch I don't know. So it's not earth shattering but on top of everything else she didn't see the need to tell me any of this and I wouldn't have known if I hadn't seen the deleted email.

There is also a community sports event where local businesses compete against each other and her company is involved. It was the problem coworker that got her involved originally and also conveniently was on her volleyball team as well. We had discussed before that it wasn't a good idea given the circumstances that she participate in it again yet she had all intentions of doing it again this year until I brought up not being happy about it. Again I had no idea until I overheard her talking to a mutual friend who also works there about doing it.

From my discussion with my wife 2-3 months ago I basically said don't let me find out something you didn't tell me especially when it comes to him and I did put separation on the table as a consequence. Here we are.
She has turned up the sweetness to the highest degree, we still don't fight at all, sex life is normal to above average so from all outside observations things are good. I finally confided in a mutual friend we have with topics going all the way back to when my wife was in school and they were shocked because they actually were of the impression that we were possibly the best couple they knew. This is where my "going crazy" comes in because my relationship outside of whatever it is my wife does or thinks with other guy friends/coworkers isn't nasty or confrontational.

My problem is because even though what is going on now isn't maybe as bad as the past it has caused me to become some form of angry that we are still in this cycle of - do something she shouldn't, get caught, appear devastated, turn up the sweetness- repeat. It may not be possible but in my mind I feel I enabled her to be this way because I didn't do something about it long ago for whatever reason and now I want her to tell me what went on then and what is going on now starting with what was the content of the erased texts with her current coworker. I have been trying to get her to talk for about 3 weeks now and when we get started something always "comes up" and we never finish. I also am finding that I don't think I love her the same due to the lack of trust and am really beginning to wonder if the grass is greener on the other side.
Though I still am extremely attracted to her and don't hate her at all I just feel like I am looking at her different these days. It is just weird and I think talking to our friend made me realize why I am so confused. A lot of relationship talk on here people don't talk, fight a lot, don't have sex or even sleep in other rooms- we have NEVER been that way. I just can't figure out what goes on in her head and based on our last talk her going to lunch with him to start with and not telling me at all on top of that seems like it should be a deal breaker.

Am I crazy?

I

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post #2 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-12-2016, 09:48 AM
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

No your not crazy, and what your feeling is honest and truthful, her actions has caused her reflection in you to be tainted, there is a hint of sourness when you kiss her sweet lips and to be truthful you need to tell her that.
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post #3 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-12-2016, 09:53 AM
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

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Originally Posted by bremik View Post
A lot of relationship talk on here people don't talk, fight a lot, don't have sex or even sleep in other rooms- we have NEVER been that way.
You're also in a relationship where she has been constantly deceitful and you are distrustful of her and it's been going on for years. Is that an acceptable trade-off for what you said above?

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Am I crazy?I
You're crazy for putting up with this for so many years. There has to be zero tolerance for any type of deceit. Right now the marriage isn't hard for her,only you. She sheds a few tears and is sweetness and light because it works for her. Meanwhile,you suffer. I feel for you brother,I really do. I hate infidelity and what it does to good people.

"Truth is like the sun,you can shut it out for a time,but it ain't going away"-Elvis
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post #4 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-12-2016, 12:06 PM
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

I would be honest with her and let her know your love for is slipping away, and only she can save it. That will only come with full transparency, and even then there is no guarantee. And the fact that you did not "stop" her in the past has no bearing. It is an accumulation of "love busters" and partial truths and hidden lies that is the cause.

I would be crystal clear that you can not stop this disintegration. And ask if she cares enough to do the hard work necessary to repair what she's broken


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post #5 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-12-2016, 03:46 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

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You're also in a relationship where she has been constantly deceitful and you are distrustful of her and it's been going on for years. Is that an acceptable trade-off for what you said above?

Not necessarily a good trade off - just trying to make the point that it isn't like we are at it like cats and dogs or that I despise the sight of her



You're crazy for putting up with this for so many years. There has to be zero tolerance for any type of deceit. Right now the marriage isn't hard for her,only you. She sheds a few tears and is sweetness and light because it works for her. Meanwhile,you suffer. I feel for you brother,I really do. I hate infidelity and what it does to good people.
Thanks! It is a very weird and stressful experience
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post #6 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-12-2016, 04:08 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

Thank you to the replies. I just don't understand why she can't get it. Maybe it's simply that it is because she is getting by with it so why worry? I have been trying to talk to her for a few weeks now and haven't gotten anywhere.

At one point she said we still have fun together but financial issues affect our relationship more than they used to. I told her I would give her an out- I would take all debt and she can leave, that way her job would supply enough income for her to rent a place, buy a car and live comfortably. She immediately said no.

If I drew the line in the sand and said be transparent or we separate and she wasn't transparent then what else do I do to get the point across? The only thing I can come up with is to spend some time apart and see what happens. It would logistically be very hard to do and she would probably just have to stay with her parents who are 2 hrs from us and about 1 hr and 10 min from her work. What do we tell the kids? friends? In some ways it could be good if she has to tell her family what is going on but there is always the potential that could come back on me somehow- blood thicker than water type thing.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated
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post #7 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-12-2016, 04:56 PM
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

Oh, she totally gets it. Without a doubt. She just hopes that you don't. Tell her that you do. But don't threaten separation/divorce unless you're prepared to do it. Otherwise, you look weak.
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post #8 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-12-2016, 05:04 PM
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

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I basically said don't let me find out something you didn't tell me especially when it comes to himI
That probably wasn't necessary. Seems fairly obvious she's doing a real good job covering her tracks. As far as she's concerned, you know as much as she wants you to know, and nothing more.
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post #9 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-12-2016, 10:20 PM
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

Sounds like you want to change her. Not going to happen. You don't have a lot of arrows in your quiver but the ones you do are very sharp indeed.

Once you lay down the line you stick to it. That's all. She changes on her own or you move on.

That's how it works. You don't threaten to leave... then stay... then separate and see what happens, etc. Doing that shows you are manipulating her in the hopes of her changing.

No. You make YOUR decision. Then you tell her the ground rules and ask if she even wants to meet your ground rules. If not - and that's a possibility - you act as you said you would and leave. If yes, then you give her a chance to act according to the agreement. If she fails, you act as you said you would.

This isn't a game. It is you valuing yourself and telling her that and laying out boundaries, ground rules, and consequences.

AFTER t you act and move on, you can always reconsider your position IF she changes and IF you believe it and IF you want to. No guarantees. And if you reconsider it's not carte blanch to revert. Same rules apply but perhaps without a grace period

This is strength, character and self respect. And not surprisingly, it is attractive, even to those at the wrong end of it.


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post #10 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-13-2016, 01:50 AM
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

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Originally Posted by bremik View Post
Thank you to the replies. I just don't understand why she can't get it. Maybe it's simply that it is because she is getting by with it so why worry? I have been trying to talk to her for a few weeks now and haven't gotten anywhere.

At one point she said we still have fun together but financial issues affect our relationship more than they used to. I told her I would give her an out- I would take all debt and she can leave, that way her job would supply enough income for her to rent a place, buy a car and live comfortably. She immediately said no.

If I drew the line in the sand and said be transparent or we separate and she wasn't transparent then what else do I do to get the point across? The only thing I can come up with is to spend some time apart and see what happens. It would logistically be very hard to do and she would probably just have to stay with her parents who are 2 hrs from us and about 1 hr and 10 min from her work. What do we tell the kids? friends? In some ways it could be good if she has to tell her family what is going on but there is always the potential that could come back on me somehow- blood thicker than water type thing.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated
Bremilk, sorry you are in this position but if there are no consequences she will repeat the behaviour, I have learned that the hard way.
Your wife is one of three things

1. a narcissist, who really only cares about herself and what is to her advantage
2. a wife who has little if any respect for you and thinks you will still be around regardless
3. Your wife no longer cares is she hurts you

There is no point in making her see your point of view. Do the following

1. tell her she has hurt you and you are not prepared to reinvest in the marriage and are considering your options re divorce. You must come across strong and not weak
2. move out of the bedroom
3. do not deal with her except in as far as the kids are concerned, keep it official
4. do the 180 on her , this is a day by day process
5. let her feel what it will be like for you to leave her
6. start working on yourself, go to the gym, get nice new shirt, get your hair done, act as if life will be fine without her in it

This may wake her up. If so, then go for couples counselling and trash out these issues, if not you are one step along the road to leaving.

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post #11 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-13-2016, 05:15 AM
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

She's not getting it because you haven't made your terms non-negotiable. Far from it.

You request a boundary and she skips right around it. You're not separating, so your boundary about her keeping secrets from you is useless.

- She needs to find a new job
- She needs to write him a NC letter, under your supervision.
- She quits the volleyball yesterday.
- She needs to show you her emails. If this is WORK email, IT has a complete archive of all her mail. Telling HR you think she is in breach of the company's acceptable use policy for her personal mail use may prompt an audit of her email. Her secrets won't be shared with you, but they will be shared with management. She could be terminated, so be very sure before you take a step like this. My point of this is, she is misusing company resources depending on the frequency and content of her email.

Tell her flatly, what you are and are not OK with, and don't be afraid to pull the plug at any time. It's your fear that allows her bad behavior. You're not crazy or overreacting. You're blowing hot air without followup. She has poor boundaries for a married woman and an obvious disrespect for you. Who wants that when there are thousands of women out there who don't act like this with men they love?

"If you deliberately plan on being less than you are capable of being, then I warn you that you'll be unhappy for the rest of your life."

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post #12 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-13-2016, 08:52 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

Thank you for the replies. Maybe it has just taken me this long to be officially tired of it- and some getting yelled at on this site didn't hurt?!

I know she is avoiding talking about it because I think she has an idea something has changed in me. Not anything huge but a definite change. Again the kicker in all this is we can function day to day with no issues at home. It is just that now I always have in the back of my mind what else is going on at work. I will bring all the issues up when we do finally talk and she will have the deer in the headlights look like she never even thought about any of her recent actions being an issue- just like all the times before.

I talked some recently to a past pastor of ours and his simple conclusion is she definitely needs/likes attention from other guys for some reason. I talked to him because he knew us pretty well and would know how we appear versus what was going on behind the scenes. I really hate to end a marriage because of someone being stupid but my gosh dealing with it for over 20 yrs isn't like I haven't tried. I did the math and came up that out of 24 yrs 9-10 of them were some sort of dealing with these types of issues- some worse than others. I just don't get it. But maybe I never will.

The 180 is what I really need to focus on somehow. I feel like I married a movie star and won't replace that but can replace the attitude with better. The biggest problem for me is the physical attraction and the knowing how bad ripple effects are from a problem/failed marriage- I keep thinking why am I the only one who seems to be thinking about all this! I was asked if the kids know anything and I can very confidently say they don't plus some of the worst things were before they were born or when they would have been too young to have any idea.

It is like you have to remove yourself from the situation but I haven't been fully able to do that yet. It is weak I know but I can be tough for 3-4 days then the physical attraction/compatibility win out- the negatives of being a male I guess. Somehow I have to overcome it. I have come to the conclusion that she may be fully aware of my weakness and that is why we are where we are at. Whether conscious or sub conscious I don't know.
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post #13 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-13-2016, 09:29 AM
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

Time to put the cards on the table.

She could also be codependent and need external validation. In other words she may seek attention - even inappropriate attention - then hide it so as to avoid hurting you (that's the codependency).

But it's time to clear your thoughts, make a list of what is acceptable and unacceptable, view your situation from a third party perspectives, and then give that guy some advice.

It sounds like you actually know what you want and need. I suggested writing it down because you just said you get muddled brain after a few days because of the sex. Well, be more objective and take your time to organize your thoughts on paper.

You can then share them with us or in IC. An independent view will help validate your position and help with your resolve. Also point out holes, unreasonable perspectives, etc.

Good luck and get to it


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post #14 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-13-2016, 09:52 AM
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

My situation was relatively similar to yours. In the end, I chose to get divorced, due to my own inabilities to trust. After she went out of her way to deceive me about meeting up with someone for coffee (I found out before it, so it never actually happened), I told her I was unwilling to have to spend my life verifying stuff, and we got divorced.

Our marriage was very very good, outside of that, and I'll freely admit, the issue was more mine than hers, but it was a line I wasn't willing to cross.

Time went by, and we're back together now, but I'll never marry again. If she doesn't want to be here, she's free to leave at any time, and so am I. It works for us because now we both have to be invested in what we have in order to keep it.

I don't know if this helps, or gives you any other ideas, but this was that path that worked for me.
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post #15 of 51 (permalink) Old 10-13-2016, 10:57 AM
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Re: Going Crazy Trying to figure out things

@dubsey wow so you trust each other enough to be a couple but not enough to be married. How long has this been the case?


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