Desperate - Page 8 - Talk About Marriage
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post #106 of 1046 (permalink) Old 05-21-2013, 07:33 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Desperate

Well, that worked well - I think she is really starting to see the dynamics of our marriage, and the parts that are not working well. She has made some major shifts and we are back on track!
She's making a real effort to address my needs, and that's much more than she has done in years.
Thanks for sticking around!

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post #107 of 1046 (permalink) Old 09-04-2013, 07:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Desperate

Well, things are not taking the exact road I was hoping for...
Lots of stress between us - but much of the stress has lifted. Her job, her schooling, being pregnant... Our son was born 2 weeks ago, she is on maternity leave and probably not going back to her job, and she graduated...
The problem is that she still doesn't care for physical affection. I laid low, not being overly clingy or desperate (despite the name of this thread) but no real change. Sex was 2-4 times a month until about a month ago, a real decline but also the passion had fizzled. When I try to bring it up, I try to be respectful. It's never a "good time" to talk about it... or she claims every time she would show any affection I always wanted sex (big exaggeration - but even if it was true, so what???) . And now of course intercourse is not going to happen because she just had a baby 2 weeks ago but she refuses any substitutions... She says she doesn't feel like it. But she hasn't felt like it for a long time. She doesn't know why. Everything else has been a great improvement, but the physical aspect is the most important part of the marriage to me.
I've read enough on here to realize that she has lost respect for me. The thing is, I really don't want to lose my kids... I don't want to be apart from my newborn. Yes I will still see them but it's not the same as being able to see them every day.
We had some counseling sessions with our pastor when we separated last year, he and his wife are marriage counselors. Now she refuses to go... I'm going on my own to see him this Sunday...
Just venting, but if anyone wants to chime in please feel free.
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post #108 of 1046 (permalink) Old 09-05-2013, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark72 View Post
Well, things are not taking the exact road I was hoping for...
Lots of stress between us - but much of the stress has lifted. Her job, her schooling, being pregnant... Our son was born 2 weeks ago, she is on maternity leave and probably not going back to her job, and she graduated...
The problem is that she still doesn't care for physical affection. I laid low, not being overly clingy or desperate (despite the name of this thread) but no real change. Sex was 2-4 times a month until about a month ago, a real decline but also the passion had fizzled. When I try to bring it up, I try to be respectful. It's never a "good time" to talk about it... or she claims every time she would show any affection I always wanted sex (big exaggeration - but even if it was true, so what???) . And now of course intercourse is not going to happen because she just had a baby 2 weeks ago but she refuses any substitutions... She says she doesn't feel like it. But she hasn't felt like it for a long time. She doesn't know why. Everything else has been a great improvement, but the physical aspect is the most important part of the marriage to me.
I've read enough on here to realize that she has lost respect for me. The thing is, I really don't want to lose my kids... I don't want to be apart from my newborn. Yes I will still see them but it's not the same as being able to see them every day.
We had some counseling sessions with our pastor when we separated last year, he and his wife are marriage counselors. Now she refuses to go... I'm going on my own to see him this Sunday...
Just venting, but if anyone wants to chime in please feel free.
I don't know if anyone has brought this up, and sorry to chime in so late, I have read most of the posts, but have you considered the possibility that your wife may have started an affair? Ea/Pa are very often associated with the level of stress in your marriage. I am not trying to stir the pot, I am super pro marriage a and think you are working really hard. Your wife has shown some signs of a possible A. It may even just be something she is struggling with( temptation ). I also may be totally off base. Hope the best for you and congratulations on new baby!
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post #109 of 1046 (permalink) Old 09-05-2013, 11:06 AM
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Re: Desperate

Mark you really tried man but I think it's time to move on. Even if she doesn't have someone else she is just not into you. Limbo sux.
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post #110 of 1046 (permalink) Old 09-07-2013, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark72 View Post
Well, things are not taking the exact road I was hoping for...
Lots of stress between us - but much of the stress has lifted. Her job, her schooling, being pregnant... Our son was born 2 weeks ago, she is on maternity leave and probably not going back to her job, and she graduated...
The problem is that she still doesn't care for physical affection. I laid low, not being overly clingy or desperate (despite the name of this thread) but no real change. Sex was 2-4 times a month until about a month ago, a real decline but also the passion had fizzled. When I try to bring it up, I try to be respectful. It's never a "good time" to talk about it... or she claims every time she would show any affection I always wanted sex (big exaggeration - but even if it was true, so what???) . And now of course intercourse is not going to happen because she just had a baby 2 weeks ago but she refuses any substitutions... She says she doesn't feel like it. But she hasn't felt like it for a long time. She doesn't know why. Everything else has been a great improvement, but the physical aspect is the most important part of the marriage to me.
I've read enough on here to realize that she has lost respect for me. The thing is, I really don't want to lose my kids... I don't want to be apart from my newborn. Yes I will still see them but it's not the same as being able to see them every day.
We had some counseling sessions with our pastor when we separated last year, he and his wife are marriage counselors. Now she refuses to go... I'm going on my own to see him this Sunday...
Just venting, but if anyone wants to chime in please feel free.
You wife had a baby 2 weeks ago and you are pressuring her for sex and/or substitutions?

When a woman has a baby, her body changes. She has many hormonal shifts, and is exhausted from getting up to do feedings and getting broken sleep. Having to manage everything else that she has to manage, deal with emotions and changes to her appearance. A lot of women do not feel sexy after having a child.
Having a baby is not a walk in the park.
Instead of bugging her for sex, take care of your own business, pick up the slack and make her life easier so she can rest and get back to normal. She just did give you a child.
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post #111 of 1046 (permalink) Old 09-12-2013, 10:30 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Desperate

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Originally Posted by a_new_me View Post
You wife had a baby 2 weeks ago and you are pressuring her for sex and/or substitutions?

When a woman has a baby, her body changes. She has many hormonal shifts, and is exhausted from getting up to do feedings and getting broken sleep. Having to manage everything else that she has to manage, deal with emotions and changes to her appearance. A lot of women do not feel sexy after having a child.
Having a baby is not a walk in the park.
Instead of bugging her for sex, take care of your own business, pick up the slack and make her life easier so she can rest and get back to normal. She just did give you a child.
I certainly appreciate the input you have given. If this was just about sex right after the birth, I would agree with you 100%. THis has been going on for 2 years. With our previous two children, she was initiating sex after 2 weeks, but I certainly understand the changes that you are talking about, and thank you for the response.
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post #112 of 1046 (permalink) Old 09-12-2013, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Desperate

After trying to talk about this and try to explain how I feel and try to get an understanding of how she really feels, same old same old. I bring it up, she gets angry. My past is thrown in my face
Im meeting with my pastor as often as I can. She wont come. I will give it every shot I have before I walk out.
THis time last year I was begging her to come back. Now I don't know if I want to put forth the effort anymore.
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post #113 of 1046 (permalink) Old 09-13-2013, 03:54 PM
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Re: Desperate

Mark, I know that the sexual intimacy stuff has been an ongoing issue for a while, and I've been in the exact same situation (I'd say my wife and I have averaged maybe 4x/YEAR in our nearly 10 year marriage) so I definitely feel your pain, but you have to realize that you can't, you just can't say that the weeks after giving birth are like any other weeks in your marriage.

The past really doesn't matter in that first few weeks. Remember every pregnancy is totally different too, so you can't compare it to the last. In fact, KNOWING that sex is pretty much off the table for these next few weeks, in that she has a really damn good excuse for not feeling sexy, you should take this OPPORTUNITY to just love her and make her feel beautiful. Show that you have no expectations, don't dare to try to escalate a friendly hug or kiss to anything more. Let her feel comfortable that she can show you affection without fear that you'll try to push her into something she is not comfortable with. It just makes her not want to show any affection that might "set you off".

After that, honestly if you haven't tried it yet, I think you need to give her a vacation from sex. "Dude, the last two years have basically been a vacation from sex for her!" Yeah I know, but I really mean a vacation from sexual expectations. Just straight up tell her that you realize that she probably feels like she is failing you in many ways because of the sexual issue. She probably feels guilty, and even if/when she does feel affectionate towards you, she is probably fearful of expressing it because of how you'll respond to it, which will force her to reject you again and experience that guilt and shame all over again. It's a cycle, and it does nothing but push you both further and further apart. Trying to haul her back into more counselor's and pastor's offices to talk about sex, and how you're unfulfilled, and how it's basically her fault (even if done in the nicest way) is just humiliating and and causes her to feel even worse about herself. All the while wondering if it is just a matter of time before you dump her for someone else who is more attractive or at least willing to be more sexual than she is, despondent in the feeling that she can't keep her husband happy the way most women can, nor could she blame him for possibly wanting someone else if it came to that. Eventually she feels resentful, with very low self confidence, and unloved.

"But dude, I do love her, and I show her that a bazillion different ways!"

I'm sure you do, but woven through every interaction and every nice thing you do, there is the reminder that she is still failing you, or maybe a fear that you do nice things just to butter her up for sex, or she might feel guilty when you treat her well and she can't reciprocate in the way you want most, and so on. Eventually they just become words to her, and before long she just wants out.

So the idea is a sexual vacation. It's gotta be at least three months, probably closer to six. Just be honest about everything above, that you can empathize with her, that you feel like you understand a bit better (though be open to letting her share more if she wants to) and the idea is that maybe you can both rebuild your relationship better if you completely remove the element of sexual intimacy for a while. She can experience your efforts to show her love and affection without fear of an underlying motive. She can feel free to show her appreciation and affection without fear of you trying to escalate it. I imagine she would LOVE such a gesture from you, showing her that you love her enough to willingly sacrifice this element for her for a while, because it is important to you that SHE FEEL the love that you have for her, that she know it is real, and that it ISN'T just because you are horny or otherwise "want some" from her.

Again this is a massive suggestion, and I could be way off base here so feel free to ignore me. But like I said, I bet something like this could mean the world to her. It might take a few weeks before she believes it, but I bet she carries enormous loads of guilt, shame, resentment, fear, etc. on her shoulders every day, so to help her remove all that baggage for a few months, you might be able to jump-start her love and self esteem in a huge way.


One last thing, has porn been an issue for you? As in, do you use porn? If so, does she know about it? Either way, if you use it, you gotta cut that out. That too messes with her in an enormous way. Give that up at the same time and wow, she won't know who you are anymore.
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post #114 of 1046 (permalink) Old 09-14-2013, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark72 View Post
After trying to talk about this and try to explain how I feel and try to get an understanding of how she really feels, same old same old. I bring it up, she gets angry. My past is thrown in my face
Im meeting with my pastor as often as I can. She wont come. I will give it every shot I have before I walk out.
THis time last year I was begging her to come back. Now I don't know if I want to put forth the effort anymore.
Sorry, you said your past thrown back in your face, she is angry and you were begging her to come back?

Did you have an affair?
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post #115 of 1046 (permalink) Old 09-14-2013, 05:19 PM
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Re: Desperate

Pressuring her for sex and your needs to weeks after a baby huh? That's pretty crappy and reeks of selfishness; I don't care what your past is, nothing is going to justify that. If my hb did that with me I promise you I would never forget it. There is a time to address your intimacy issues but this aint it.
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post #116 of 1046 (permalink) Old 09-16-2013, 07:14 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Desperate

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Sorry, you said your past thrown back in your face, she is angry and you were begging her to come back?

Did you have an affair?
Porn. 5 years ago.
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post #117 of 1046 (permalink) Old 09-16-2013, 07:20 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Desperate

She told me the other day that she has not felt the same about me in years. She cannot pinpoint anything that caused it. She can't tell me any actions that she doesn't like or feelings she gets at anything I do or say.

It hurt.

I told her two days ago that I am willing to fight for our marriage but not if she isn't going to make any efforts.

Since then there has been a bit of a spark - not a bunch but enough to prolong me forming an exit plan.
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post #118 of 1046 (permalink) Old 09-16-2013, 07:38 PM
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I see.

Well, that is really complicated.

I do not see any issues with watching porn as long as it does not replace the intimacy in a relationship, but some people are really bothered by it and I understand that can be really difficult on a relationship.

It is hard building a relationship after such an intense issue. But if you are strong and love each other, anyone can survive in the face of such issues.
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post #119 of 1046 (permalink) Old 09-17-2013, 01:49 PM
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Re: Desperate

Porn is a relationship killer, period. It trains our brains that sexual satisfaction is always a moments notice away, without any effort required. It literally reprograms us at a chemical level, in the same way that consuming a lot of alcohol over a long period of time will create an alcoholic. Anyone who thinks that this won't negatively impact their marriage is insane.

So it is good that you've figured that out. One question I have, is have you really kicked that habit?

I mean really?

I ask because, in my experience, without some major accountability involving groups, accountability software on every electronic device you own, someone checking credit card statements, etc., that people will lie in response to that question 90% of the time.

In any case, I think it's good that you put it to her that way, saying that you'll fight for the marriage and do whatever it takes, as long as she too is willing to put forth genuine effort, not just sit and wait to see if her feelings "drift back into place" or something like that. I think it's ok to lay out some fair expectations that scale up over time as well, starting easy for her.
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post #120 of 1046 (permalink) Old 09-17-2013, 01:50 PM
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Re: Desperate

By the way, what did you think of my "sexual vacation" idea from above? I seriously think she would be floored by such a suggestion!
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