Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation - Page 3 - Talk About Marriage
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post #31 of 295 (permalink) Old 08-29-2013, 09:48 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

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cd, yeah, that's what I meant! Didn't intend to confuse And yes, your situation is different, but my STBXH says (claims?) that he thought I hated him and wanted a divorce, as if that justifies his actions since we separated.

And he's not going to wake up and figure this stuff out, at least not anytime in the window of time during which I would be willing to wait. We've only been separated for six months, but I've been waiting for him to figure this all out for much, MUCH longer than that.





This is where he is right now, and where he will remain for a very long time, if not forever. Once he convinces himself of something, it's nearly impossible to shake him of any such conviction, even if you can disprove him with facts, evidence, and/or science. He's not as self-aware as he thinks he is, and if he knew himself only half as well as I know him, he might stand a chance at some sort of happiness.

I can't spend my life waiting around for him to figure things out. There's a better life for me than what he can offer, and I'll be damned if I'm going to let it pass me by because of a slim-to-none chance that he might wake up and figure it out.

Things will work out for me - just not with him. And I'm OK with that, for the most part. I'm working through it, and I'm getting there. Not the fastest process, but I'm moving ahead, and each day gets just a little better.
Well, as far as his thinking the cheating wasn't a big deal because he thought you hated him and wanted a divorce, I would ask what was the status of your marriage at that time? Separated yes, but were you seeing each other or communicating regularly? Was it clear that reconciliation was a planned eventuality? Were you both making efforts to move in the direction of reconciliation or drifting further apart? Had it been made clear by both of you that exclusivity was still expected during the separation? (Not just assumed because you are married, but specifically reaffirmed at the start of the separation?) I'm not trying to defend him by any stretch, but I do think it's only fair to analyze it. If a separation is clearly moving towards divorce, with no rules/plan in place, no expectations clarified, then I think it might be unfair to be too angry. In his case though, it sounds like he didn't wait very long at all before he started looking for other women...

Remember that the "Separation fog" can be incredibly convincing, in the same way that "affair fog" is. So no, it will be very difficult for him to figure anything out while still entrenched in it. He has to pass through it for a while and let it dissipate on it's own before he can see reality. Of course, reality might be that you and him are better off apart, but he can't really know that for sure while in the fog.

In the mean time, either way, it sounds like you've got yourself figured out and doing the right things. Focus on yourself now and whether he figures himself out or not, you'll turn out better off either way. Best of luck to you!

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post #32 of 295 (permalink) Old 08-29-2013, 10:36 AM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

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Well, as far as his thinking the cheating wasn't a big deal because he thought you hated him and wanted a divorce, I would ask what was the status of your marriage at that time? Separated yes, but were you seeing each other or communicating regularly? Was it clear that reconciliation was a planned eventuality? Were you both making efforts to move in the direction of reconciliation or drifting further apart? Had it been made clear by both of you that exclusivity was still expected during the separation? (Not just assumed because you are married, but specifically reaffirmed at the start of the separation?) I'm not trying to defend him by any stretch, but I do think it's only fair to analyze it. If a separation is clearly moving towards divorce, with no rules/plan in place, no expectations clarified, then I think it might be unfair to be too angry. In his case though, it sounds like he didn't wait very long at all before he started looking for other women...

Remember that the "Separation fog" can be incredibly convincing, in the same way that "affair fog" is. So no, it will be very difficult for him to figure anything out while still entrenched in it. He has to pass through it for a while and let it dissipate on it's own before he can see reality. Of course, reality might be that you and him are better off apart, but he can't really know that for sure while in the fog.

In the mean time, either way, it sounds like you've got yourself figured out and doing the right things. Focus on yourself now and whether he figures himself out or not, you'll turn out better off either way. Best of luck to you!
We were making no progress in counseling - in large part because he was going to the sessions, and telling the counselor what she wanted to hear, but wasn't doing any of the work or making any effort outside of counseling - and the tension at home was palpable. The therapist hinted at the possibility of separation, and the next week my STBXH came in to counseling and said, "I think we should separate."

What we agreed on, in counseling, was that we would take six months to live apart, to work on ourselves and identify/work on how we each contributed to our marital problems. At the end of six months, we would reconvene and discuss whether we (mutually) wanted to pursue reconciliation, or divorce. The counselor asked if we would continue to see one another, to talk, during the separation; my STBXH insisted adamantly that he wanted to continue to see me and talk to me, that we could talk on the phone and date each other during the separation. Two weeks later, he moved out (02/10/13), and I pretty much never heard from him again.

With the exceptions of: 1) a text in late Feb, to let me know he was stopping by our apartment to pick up some clothing; 2) a text in early April to inquire about our taxes, which I had already filed; and 3) a phone call in mid-July (I called him) about some problems with the car.

All of this from the man who insisted that he would do "whatever it takes" to save our marriage. He couldn't even call me up for a date. I had been carrying our relationship for years; all I was looking for was a little bit of effort on his part. Over the years, I had continually lowered my expectations so much so that they couldn't have possibly gone any lower, and he still couldn't even do that.

ANY COMMUNICATION FROM HIM AT ALL during this period would have been welcome, but by this point he had been methodically ignoring me for years. Because he worked nights (Tues-Sat) and I worked days (Mon-Fri), so I could go days without seeing him or talking to him. I could call or text, but I never knew if I would get a response. If he texted me (he NEVER called), it would be logistical (like, "can I eat these leftovers?"). I'm surprised that he hadn't resorted to communicating via grunts by the end.
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post #33 of 295 (permalink) Old 08-29-2013, 11:53 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

Ouch, yeah I understand. It makes me wonder if he wasn't in some way pursuing other women even before he actually moved out. Sudden shifts in behavior and commitment like that typically don't happen for no reason at all.

So yeah, I would call his relationship with the OW an affair/cheating. That's terribly unfortunate.
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post #34 of 295 (permalink) Old 08-29-2013, 12:39 PM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

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Ouch, yeah I understand. It makes me wonder if he wasn't in some way pursuing other women even before he actually moved out. Sudden shifts in behavior and commitment like that typically don't happen for no reason at all.

So yeah, I would call his relationship with the OW an affair/cheating. That's terribly unfortunate.
My STBXH has a LOT of emotional baggage and issues that he doesn't even realize that he's carrying around.

And I know that he flirts with a lot of women at work - he's a bartender/manager, and he says "it's part of my job." It never really bothered me, since I knew he was coming home to me, and EVERYONE at his workplace knew he was married, so even the women knew there was no intention behind the flirting.

But maybe he was laying some subconscious groundwork? Who knows...
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post #35 of 295 (permalink) Old 08-29-2013, 12:47 PM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

But he definitely wasn't pursuing any other women actively. He was too lazy for that.
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post #36 of 295 (permalink) Old 08-29-2013, 01:05 PM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

And I don't think it was for no reason at all... I just don't know the reason.

He said he thought that I hated him ans never wanted to see him again, and that I wanted a divorce. None of which I ever said. I said "I'm unhappy with our marriage."
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post #37 of 295 (permalink) Old 09-05-2013, 04:01 PM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

let me this if i get this right. She cheated and left. Didn't work out and running home. Thou you feel you pushed her out because your guilty of:

1. Terribly immature.
2. Unrealistic expectations, by which I relentlessly judged her. (Sexually especially)
3. Pornography addiction.
4. Pushed her hard to dabble in swinging and swapping of sex partners to meet my own disturbing fetishes at the time, leading her to feeling like nothing more than a sex object.
5. Regularly "throwing her under the bus" in order to make myself look better in the eyes of others, regularly looking to be seen as a perfect husband. (Being viewed as a wonderful husband/father can be a way to make her feel like she needs to step up in her duties by making her feel inadequate or unworthy)
6. Financially irresponsible.
7. Emotionally Manipulative.
8. Selfish.
9. Intense need to be right, to win, all the time.
10. Poor leader.
11. Uninvolved father.

I would of left too. Let me guess your threesomes were you sleeping with her and her bestfriend? Don't want seem harsh on you BUT DUDE... when you bring other people into your marriage bed you open yourself up for failure. I know three couples who done this and all three divorced.
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post #38 of 295 (permalink) Old 09-05-2013, 04:54 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

Yep, I agree. I kind of got what I deserved, and I don't try to hide from that. She had her issues too of course, beyond the cheating, but most of them were just as petty as many of mine. (Immaturity, unrealistic/unfair expectations, irresponsibility, etc.)

One correction as it relates to the swinging/swapping stuff. I myself never actually participated. We never got that far and I never even reached the point of advocating for myself to play with others. At the time I was just desperate for a sexual relationship with my wife and was at my wits end on how to do it. After years of our sex life consisting of about 2x per YEAR, three different therapists, untold numbers of attempted romance, etc., I was just dumb and thought maybe if I could go to an extreme to find some way to excite her, even if that meant letting her play with others and THEN involving me, that maybe that would wake up her sexuality and we could then share a normal sex life ourselves. I do mean it when I say that me sleeping with other people was never ever a goal in that (admittedly dumb-as-hell) plan. So yes I confess that I was an idiot in that failure, but not exactly a scoundrel.
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post #39 of 295 (permalink) Old 09-10-2013, 11:33 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

Well I have spent a lot of time reading and commenting on the threads of others, I haven't provided a true update to my own situation, so here goes. As usual, I'm sure it's going to be long, so I apologize in advance.

I left off in late June. At that time, my wife had moved back in somewhat unexpectedly the first week of June. I was sleeping on the couch in order to let her feel more comfortable with being back home and out of my desire to show her that there was no expectation of anything sexual from her. She immediately set to work on some basic remodeling like repainting rooms, replacing trim/cabinets, reorganizing closets, re-purposing our "TV Room" into a play room for our daughter, etc. All good stuff.

So now it's almost exactly two and a half months later. In that time she has fully moved back home and the apartment lease expired. She has really re-integrated well back into our family. She's reasonably helpful around the house (not to where I'd like her to be, but better than it used to be), she definitely operates in "we" mode and not "I" mode now, and we're all getting along pretty well. She also started her final semester of nursing school a couple of weeks ago, so now she is busy with that and I handle probably 80% of household chores, but I'm really ok with that. (Heck it was 100% for three years) Also, we are now sleeping in the same bed as of about two and a half weeks ago.

So now for the concerns... The biggest one is that I feel like we are roommates. There has been absolutely ZERO romantic activity of any kind. Like nothing, nada. Seriously, not even a single kiss. As in she hasn't kissed me since June of 2010. Hugs are about as far as it's gone, and even those are the quick "Here is your complimentary welcome home from work hug" that lasts all of .5 seconds. She'll let me kiss her on top of her head, but that's IT. Further, she doesn't even feel comfortable touching at all. No hand holding, no shoulder rubs or foot massages, (receiving too), just no touching. A few weeks ago she meekly replied "I love you" after I said it myself, which I felt like a breakthrough, but not she only says it maaaybe once a week at most, and only in reply.

The really lousy part is that my love language is physical touch. Sex certainly is a part of that of course, but really that literally just means touch. It used to fill my love tank tremendously if she would hold my hand, lean in on my shoulder while watching TV/a movie, touch my back when she walks into a room to ask me a question, or cuddles even a little bit in bed. Literally any kind of touch. She KNOWS this too, as we went to a marriage conference with that being a major topic several years ago and I've brought it up twice since she's been back home, making it extremely clear. She still actively avoids any kind of touching and displays visible annoyance if I dare touch her in any way, shape or form. (Ex. Reached for her hand while on a walk, resting my hand on her hip while going to sleep, trying to offer her a quick shoulder rub after her volleyball practice, etc.)

From her side, I have tried to be very supportive. Naturally she and I both have a lot of history we have to try to move past in rebuilding trust and security in one another. Our issues include my prior porn addiction, pushing her to be sexual with me (we averaged maybe 3x per YEAR), getting her to try sex with another guy just to see if her libido could be rebooted, etc. Shameful stuff I know. On her side, the OM she had the affair with and then moved out with for about two years turned out to be a controlling, manipulative, sex addict and pedophile, for which he is now in the state penitentiary. So she experienced a lot of sexual pressure and betrayal through him as well, in addition to some less major issues going further back before our marriage.

Knowing all this, and wanting to be as understanding and supportive as possible, I have already promised her that I won't have any expectation of sex from her for the foreseeable future. I sort of pegged that limit as being the end of this year. I truly have kept that promise too, I haven't even hinted or been suggestive of anything sexual, and I'm positive she would confirm that. But lately she has said that she still has trust issues with me, she still needs to see things change for an extended period of time, and she still feels sexually damaged by various issues from the past described above. However she has said that I am doing all the right things and there is nothing more I could be doing that I am not already doing. With that said, she now says that even physical touch of any kind falls into her discomfort zone. I am struggling with that notion because I can't understand why, fully aware of how much such little things would mean to me, she can't just hold my hand once in a while, or touch my back/shoulder to get my attention, or even offer a simple kiss or anything once in a while. I'm talking like one or two little touches per day.

It's like, if I burned down a children's hospital while trying to cook a large dinner, I might have difficulty in bringing myself to be comfortable with cooking again. That makes sense. But if I knew it would mean the world to my wife if I could just throw a pop-tart on a plate for her, then couldn't I do that much?

It sounds incredibly petty right now as I write it, but for someone with a physical touch love language, it means everything to me. I mean, we both have to make enormous efforts to work through our past issues and rebuild a strong marriage, but when I sit and think very long about the fact that she can't bring herself to hold my hand for a moment while on a walk, knowing how doing so will make my love tank burst past the "fill to" line, it just makes me question her commitment completely. It makes me question if she cares about me at all. Or maybe it's a physical attraction issue and she is just trying to be nice by making up an excuse. (I'm not obese, I shower/brush teeth dailiy, use deodorant & cologne, etc.) It definitely leads me to having good days and bad days. Good days are when I can psych myself up and forget about it, and the bad days are when I am unable to avoid dwelling on it.

So I feel kind of stuck. I have always said that I can be as patient as she needs me to be (even going without sex beyond this year if need be) AS LONG as we are consistently moving forward, as long as things are improving and she is making an effort. Things ARE pretty consistently moving forward. She is making some efforts in other areas. She is working on saying she appreciates things I do, occasionally performing a nice gesture like making a favorite meal of mine, communicating better, etc. I won't go into all the ways I am showing her love and communicating because she says I am doing great, and I do actively think of such things repeatedly throughout the day. (Her love language is words of affirmation and quality time) But I struggle daily with this physical touch thing.

It sucks to have to keep going day in and day out FEELING unloved, undesired, disrespected, etc. but at the same time feeling pretty confident that she is making an effort, that she does care about me and she does have respect for me. Logically I think things are going pretty well, I'd give it a 7 out of 10. Emotionally/Physically, I'd give it a 3 out of 10. Sooo, for anyone who managed to finish this long-winded post, does anyone have any suggestions for me? Things I could be doing to cope, or things I could do/say to my wife that might help, or even just other opinions that might help me better understand/accept what she is saying?
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post #40 of 295 (permalink) Old 09-10-2013, 11:49 AM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

cdbaker, you are NOT being petty. Physical intimacy is a HUGE thing, and I know where you're coming from right now. The last two years of my marriage, my now-STBXH never touched me in in any way, and we only had sex 2-4x/yr (and when we did it was horrible). To have the person you love most in the world not want to touch you, and who flinches or recoils from your touch, is a very difficult thing, especially when your love language is physical affection (which it is for me).

EDIT: In my experience, it completely eroded my self-esteem. I felt ugly, unloved, unsexy, worthless, etc, etc... and that seeped into other parts of my life as well. I think the partners doing the rejecting really have no understanding of the psychological impact when they deny their partners intimacy. I find it to be an INCREDIBLY selfish behavior. I'm not talking about the occasional "no"; I'm talking about the continual, repetitive, denial of physical intimacy (both sexual and non-sexual) that you and I have both experienced.

Does she know that you have this internal deadline for the end of the year? If she doesn't, it's really not fair to her - or to you, either. Our partners cannot meet our expectations if we don't tell them what those expectations are.

Now that she's moved back in, are the two of you in counseling? She definitely needs it if she feels she can't trust YOU after what the AP did to her, but you probably need it together as well if you guys are going to get through this together.

I mean, I'm really happy that the two of you seem to be moving forward in a positive direction, but she can't expect you to live like a monk for the rest of your life, if you know what I mean. All these small changes/improvements are great, but it doesn't really add up to much if you can't be intimate (within a reasonable amount of time). It seems like this situation requires a somewhat delicate balance of having patience with her while also prioritizing your own needs.


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post #41 of 295 (permalink) Old 09-10-2013, 01:01 PM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

I guess I'd put a timeframe on it - say by January 2014 if things aren't significantly better then discuss an amicable divorce. Don't drag it out as is for another year.

I'd think marital counseling is a must if you want to see improvements as well. Insist on this and if it's a no go on her part, well then, time for the divorce.

The bottom line here is your wife has to understand the status quo is not an acceptable long term position.
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post #42 of 295 (permalink) Old 09-10-2013, 03:52 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

Feminist: Oh gosh yes, I know that sexual intimacy is absolutely a necessity in marriage, no question. That wouldn't be a petty request. What I felt seems kind of petty is me making a big deal of even regular non-sexual touches, like literally just touching! If I just stop to think about it for very long, it frustrates me to think that she can't just suck it up and hold my hand on a walk for example. I think the issue though is that I can't bring myself to believe her when she says that any and all forms of touch are part of her current insecurity/discomfort with me that she is apparently trying to work through. I totally get why sexual intimacy might be an issue that needs some time in order to reconnect, but hand holding? Touches in passing or walking into a room? Hugs? Simple kisses? (Not making out) Etc.? I just struggle to believe it is all. I wish other women here could tell me if it makes sense to them and I just need to accept it.

As far as telling her of my "internal deadline", no I have not, but I think I really made a bigger issue of it than it is. Really I haven't thought much yet about how much time I want to comfortably offer. I really truly figured that as long as we were still consistantly moving forward, even if it is a slow pace, that I would continue to be patient. I think I've just been kind of hoping that it wouldn't cross into 2014.

With that said, another element involved here, and this may sound crazy, is that she and I both only have our one child (a daughter, 9 years old) and we want more kids. Earlier in our marriage, she wanted more kids badly but I wasn't comfortable having more kids while we still lived in a sexless marriage. I wanted her to figure that out before committing to more responsibility with her. Looking back I think this was a really really cruel thing for me to do, saying (and knowing) that I loved her but at the same time denying her children until she would "figure out her problem" and get her sex drive on track. Now I can see that it was my general attitude and controlling, prideful nature that was largely responsible for most of her sexual disinterest. She didn't feel loved by me, so (to be blunt) opening her legs to me felt very wrong. I very truly deeply loved her, but I just didn't realize I was doing anything wrong.

It's like when you see a story on TV about a man who beats his wife. At first thought, you might assume that he doesn't care about her at all, but in all likelihood, he probably loves her very deeply, he just doesn't know how to properly treat her or control his own emotions. To be clear, I have never ever remotely so much as raised my voice in anger to her, let alone my fist or anything similar, nor have I ever called her a disrespectful name.

So she and I both want more kids. We want to wait until she is out of school, and to give us some more time to make sure our relationship is on solid ground. She has directly told me that she feels that January 2014 would be a good timeframe to start trying to get pregnant. So maybe that is part of why I have the end of this year as being a very unofficial "end of the sex blockade", lol. Really though, I would think there should be a period of time where we are working up to "let's get pregnant" from "Haven't kissed in three and a half years."

And as bad as it sounds, I don't want to be completely without intimacy until the day that she decides she is ready to get pregnant. That would make me feel like her desire to have another baby is worth her making the apparently incredibly difficult decision to allow our skin to come into contact for, but my emotional/physical needs weren't. For the record, I don't really believe that is the case, nor do I believe that she is doing anything like this intentionally. I think she just figures/believes/hopes that in time alone she'll find herself more willing to engage in physical contact. That all we need is more time for continued relationship and trust rebuilding, and the physical stuff will come with it. I'm just not so confident that that will be the case.
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post #43 of 295 (permalink) Old 09-10-2013, 03:59 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

I think putting a timeframe on anything, an ultimatum really, is almost always a bad thing in a loving relationship. I think you have to be flexible. It might be ok to give a timeframe for when I'd hope things will be better, but if the time comes and there are other circumstances to consider or there has been a lot of positive steps taken, then patience would be in order.

I go back and forth on martial counseling for us. On one hand, I feel there are needs that I'd like to see met, but I also completely understand that she has legitimate trust issues and a lot of painful sexual betrayals in her past, including those created by myself. Further, I can see that she is making forward progress in other areas, some I described above and some things I haven't. We have regular constructive communication with no unhealthy or unfair fighting involved. No abuse, no drugs/alcohol, no boundaries issues. We are supportive of each other, and things are getting a little bit better every day.

I guess if things were getting worse, or simply not getting better, then going back to MC would certainly make more sense to me. And honestly, I don't even think she is strongly opposed to MC. I think for her it's mostly a time and money concern as we are both really super busy and with her not working, the budget is tight as it is.

She certainly knows that the status quo isn't acceptable where it is right now, but again, things are improving every day. Certainly I wish they were improving faster, but it's mostly just this one key area that has been bugging me relentlessly.
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post #44 of 295 (permalink) Old 09-10-2013, 04:23 PM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

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Feminist: Oh gosh yes, I know that sexual intimacy is absolutely a necessity in marriage, no question. That wouldn't be a petty request. What I felt seems kind of petty is me making a big deal of even regular non-sexual touches, like literally just touching! If I just stop to think about it for very long, it frustrates me to think that she can't just suck it up and hold my hand on a walk for example. I think the issue though is that I can't bring myself to believe her when she says that any and all forms of touch are part of her current insecurity/discomfort with me that she is apparently trying to work through. I totally get why sexual intimacy might be an issue that needs some time in order to reconnect, but hand holding? Touches in passing or walking into a room? Hugs? Simple kisses? (Not making out) Etc.? I just struggle to believe it is all. I wish other women here could tell me if it makes sense to them and I just need to accept it.

As far as telling her of my "internal deadline", no I have not, but I think I really made a bigger issue of it than it is. Really I haven't thought much yet about how much time I want to comfortably offer. I really truly figured that as long as we were still consistantly moving forward, even if it is a slow pace, that I would continue to be patient. I think I've just been kind of hoping that it wouldn't cross into 2014.

With that said, another element involved here, and this may sound crazy, is that she and I both only have our one child (a daughter, 9 years old) and we want more kids. Earlier in our marriage, she wanted more kids badly but I wasn't comfortable having more kids while we still lived in a sexless marriage. I wanted her to figure that out before committing to more responsibility with her. Looking back I think this was a really really cruel thing for me to do, saying (and knowing) that I loved her but at the same time denying her children until she would "figure out her problem" and get her sex drive on track. Now I can see that it was my general attitude and controlling, prideful nature that was largely responsible for most of her sexual disinterest. She didn't feel loved by me, so (to be blunt) opening her legs to me felt very wrong. I very truly deeply loved her, but I just didn't realize I was doing anything wrong.

It's like when you see a story on TV about a man who beats his wife. At first thought, you might assume that he doesn't care about her at all, but in all likelihood, he probably loves her very deeply, he just doesn't know how to properly treat her or control his own emotions. To be clear, I have never ever remotely so much as raised my voice in anger to her, let alone my fist or anything similar, nor have I ever called her a disrespectful name.

So she and I both want more kids. We want to wait until she is out of school, and to give us some more time to make sure our relationship is on solid ground. She has directly told me that she feels that January 2014 would be a good timeframe to start trying to get pregnant. So maybe that is part of why I have the end of this year as being a very unofficial "end of the sex blockade", lol. Really though, I would think there should be a period of time where we are working up to "let's get pregnant" from "Haven't kissed in three and a half years."

And as bad as it sounds, I don't want to be completely without intimacy until the day that she decides she is ready to get pregnant. That would make me feel like her desire to have another baby is worth her making the apparently incredibly difficult decision to allow our skin to come into contact for, but my emotional/physical needs weren't. For the record, I don't really believe that is the case, nor do I believe that she is doing anything like this intentionally. I think she just figures/believes/hopes that in time alone she'll find herself more willing to engage in physical contact. That all we need is more time for continued relationship and trust rebuilding, and the physical stuff will come with it. I'm just not so confident that that will be the case.
Oh, I definitely meant non-sexual touching as well. Super, super important - my marriage was also missing that.

I have to say, I think you were perfectly reasonable to say no to another child while you were in a sexless marriage. If I was a guy, that would make me feel like my wife just viewed me as a sperm donor, and that's pretty demeaning.

Is she physical with anyone else? I mean, does she hug your daughter? Does she hug her female friends and her family members? What I'm asking is, is her physical distancing limited to just you? If she's physical with other people and just not with you, that would strike me as a little fishy.

Either way, I understand that money is tight, but she really needs some counseling. Some counseling centers have pre-license therapists (who are fully trained, and are doing their "residency" hours so they can test for their license), and this can be MUCH more affordable than a licensed therapist.

When my STBXH and I started counseling, on of the first things she said to my STBXH was, "FeministInPink needs physical touch to feel loved and appreciated, and so you need to put more effort into doing that for her. I'm not talking about sex - I mean hold her hand, touch her arm when you're listening to her, rub her back if she's upset, etc." (Of course, he didn't do any of what she told him to do, and that's why he's my STBXH.)

What I'm trying to say is that YOU are the one that needs touch. Does she know that? It's not so much about you initiating touch and her getting more comfortable with your touch; she needs to be touching YOU. (You, on the other hand, should be focusing on showing love in her language, which I think you might have already mentioned?) She needs to understand that you need non-sexual touch, too. And if she understands that she has control over when and how she touches you -- that you're not just going to come up and grab her and hug her at any given moment -- that might help relieve some of her anxiety, and as she grows more comfortable with her touching you, she may become more receptive to you showing her physical affection as well.

It seems to me that with this OM that she felt very deceived by him, which in turn made her feel a total loss of control over that situation. I think she needs to regain some control to feel more comfortable.

I'm not a shrink or anything, but from your update, this is what it looks like from my vantage point

~Happily un-married since December 9, 2013~
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post #45 of 295 (permalink) Old 09-10-2013, 04:49 PM
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Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

You must realize she's not there to be your wife don't you? I mean really, you don't know she's using you to get her act together? After all this time you haven't figured it out?
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