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post #61 of 295 (permalink) Old 09-14-2013, 10:12 AM
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Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

Full on intimate with him, and yet 'trust issues' with CD. Somehow I smell a rat.

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post #62 of 295 (permalink) Old 09-14-2013, 11:20 AM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

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Jntrs: Totally. I still feel confident that we won't find ourselves in this mess again, but I certainly keep my eyes and ears open for it to a degree. I am choosing to trust her, as it relates to any chance that she might cheat again. I'm choosing to trust her because I think it is necessary for healing. Are there days every once in a while (really not that often, I assure you) when I worry? Where something triggers me? Sure. But the way I see it, if she is going to cheat, then that is the end anyway. I can doom our R by being paranoid and distrustful, or I can give it the best effort and there is always a chance that I'll get burned later. The reality is however, that you absolutely cannot hope to repair a relationship without a willingness to be vulnerable.

Plus, she was a totally different person back when she was in the affairs. So even if she could hide the direct evidence, I'd still know that she was up to something very wrong pretty darn quickly I think.
my ex never show any remorse for what she did, mind you i was willing to work it out no matter what, she blamed me for her actions, which doesn't make any sense at all, never really apologized for her mistakes and was expecting me to make the effort to make things work, why would i put %100 when she wasn't willing, the thing that kills me its that i lost my family and its hard to raise my kid this way (kids make you put up with crap like this cus you love them dearly) just last week i asked her to think about it and reconsidered working things out, i told her we would start from scratch and all that, then i got tired and asked her to tell me if it was over, it took her 1/2 hour to answer that, she wont file (don't know her reasons for that yet) yet after all i still love her, but i have to focus that the person i married is dead and shes somebody i don't know anymore

"have you ever looked into the eyes of someone you loved and realized the person you know its gone?"

my point, if you doing it all and she shows no remorse whatsoever then you know shes just coming back for the wrong reasons.

once again i admired what you've done so far, not every guy out there can do it, best of luck

"The devil you know is better than the devil you don't"
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post #63 of 295 (permalink) Old 09-14-2013, 12:22 PM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

My wife and I recently started getting back on track after about a year and a half of separation. We aren't doing anything physical either aside from hugging and holding hands. Neither one of us want her to move in until shes sorted herself out and is sure she can be the best wife to me and best mother to the kids. I had my year to fix my problems and learn introspection and all that, she spent hers in a co-dependant fog, when she came out of it, we started talking again. During that period we stayed on a strictly KID ONLY interaction plan, and never wavered from it. When I started to see glimpses of the good parts of her that drew me in initially, thats when we both started talking about it. My point is... Even though we are on a reconciliation path, We both agreed no moving in until we are ready to go to being a 100% couple like we should be, we can both be hypersensitive to each others actions when it comes to turning down a kiss or not answering an i love you with one back. So, to avoid anyone getting the wrong idea or a miscommunication, thats how we handle it. Even though I don't think the living together benefits YOUR mental state (only because of rejections), It probably helps to re acclimate her into the marital home/your life, so... Your patience is admirable for sure.

Start dating your wife if you can though. Gotta start from the bottom all over again and work your way up, this is a mostly new relationship after-all.
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post #64 of 295 (permalink) Old 09-14-2013, 02:25 PM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

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[B]

Given that I already had an ego problem, it would have been easy for me to revel in those moments believe everything those outside the marriage were thinking.
The good news here is that once you let that genie out of the bottle you can throw away the bottle.


I think I am following your story here. Does MS mean something other than the disease? MS = Multiple Sclerosis)


That's awesome that you both reconnected that way after so long. I'm sure you wish it could have happened sooner!

I thought she was the problem for the longest time, and she was a big part of it, TBH it became an issue in our church, my family, and our kids, but It was a perfect storm of our personality/character weaknesses, and life circumstances.

In the end I had to acknowledge the part my passive aggressive co-dependent behavior played in it ( a small part )

So it is a work in progress, I don't blame her but I don't let her off the hook either, and we spend time together to reconnect.

I am working in another state (past 3 years), I go home on my days off, (I get a rotation of 5 days off and 2 days off in 14 days) our youngest graduated HS and is going to the university in the city where I work (UofL). When we sell the house in Indiana my wife will move here with me .

Its been a long haul. I wish I would have seen it sooner and acted on it.

Sorry if I have mixed in to much background.


I think it's really really tough for people to just stop and question themselves. To question whether what they believe to be true is really true, or if there are other ways to see and interpret the same thing, whether you are "right" or not.

If the things we face bring some objective introspection then at least we are the better for it.

"The unexamined life is not worth living"

Though I could understand how the same could be said for a life damaged by infidelity

CD I wish you well,
I am not inclined to take a negative view of your efforts,
it is different for a woman,
if you want to draw the hummingbird in you have to put out the right nectar.

Take care!
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post #65 of 295 (permalink) Old 09-16-2013, 11:39 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

ConanHub: Yep, you certainly have a fair point in that she was taken in by the old creepy guy. There are circumstances that lighten the burden for her a little bit, but still, she didn't see what most others were able to see. The first circumstance is probably that she met him as a co-worker, and she was so anxious to get out of the marriage, that he was able to seduce her very quickly before she really knew him at all. I'd guess he got her phone number after only one or two shifts working together, began texting, then took it sexual quickly. So she didn't get to know him or see how others viewed him until she was already "with him". Second, since she missed the opportunity to properly evaluate him as others did, he then had the opportunity to fully manipulate and control her perception of him from "inside his circle" of sorts. He had an explanation for everything.

Nonetheless, yeah it is concerning that even during their long period of time together she didn't see enough to leave. She acknowledges that she was fooled in the beginning, but after around 7 or so months with him she began to realize that he was mostly full of ****, which actually matches with the timeframe in which she told me she wanted to call off the divorce proceedings.

WorkingOnMe: I'll mention it again... with me, she has a long history of emotional/sexual betrayal. It makes sense to me that coming to trust me intimately might be difficult. For the OM, he was a blank slate to her. She had no reason not to be uncomfortable/distrusting of him (as far as she knew) at the beginning.

JDL: Yeah there seem to be a few similarities. We started the reconciliation process while apart for about seven or eight months, then she moved in because her apartment lease was expiring soon. Sure she could have extended it, but that's another $5K and we are broke enough as it is so that was probably one of the main issues. Certainly it hasn't been easy, but I also think that things have been improving at a faster rate than they were when we were apart.
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post #66 of 295 (permalink) Old 09-17-2013, 05:12 PM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

I've been following your thread and admiring your introspection. My H and I are considering reconciliation after a year and a half of separation (and both of us being with other people.) I would not be considering it if my H had not shown signs of introspection. We have both committed to counselling and not dating other people while we're doing it.

I'm not sure what to think about your wife's discomfort with touch. I think it is a clear sign that she isn't fully invested in a future with you yet. I can see that talk about having a baby with someone you aren't sure you want a future with might be a libido-killer and feeling pressured to touch when you don't naturally feel like it could also be a point of resistance. But I'm having a hard time relating. I have always been the high desire one in my relationship and when my husband and I were separated I wanted to have sex with him more than ever. My love languages, however, are the same as your wife's - words of affirmation and quality time.

What would make her feel invested? I don't know what kinds of conversations you've had so far, but the more my H has volunteered his realizations about how he hurt me and talked to me about the realizations about himself and how they affected me, the closer I felt to him. I can't imagine that you haven't had those conversations with her, but if I were her, the more I would hear you articulate what you did wrong and what you intend to do differently (and show the differences) the more I would trust and be willing to invest.
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post #67 of 295 (permalink) Old 09-20-2013, 09:59 PM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

[QUOTE=cdbaker;3925570
I think it is actually pretty common for a recently separated spouse to feel a sudden sense of euphoria and freedom when the daily pressures/anger/unhappiness of the troubled marriage is temporarily set aside, and that euphoria can be extremely misleading. Misleading in the sense that it can make you feel like the spouse/marriage is what was keeping you from being happy, when that might not be the case at all, but it's common for figuring that part out to take a few months or more, because it has to run it's course naturally and can't be pushed by the spouse. So... it's certainly possible he'll still wake up and figure stuff out, but not exactly likely either unfortunately.
[/QUOTE]

This! Exactly what you said. When I asked my husband for a separation, (I said we needed a break before we hated each other), I figured he would take the new freedom and run. Which he did. He had total freedom, to do what he wanted, be with who he wanted, no responsibility, no kids or wife to make him accountable, etc. I gave up seeing him run (We continued to be together some for the first month and a half after he moved out) as I felt there was nothing left to hold onto to. Now hes back in our lives (not moved back in) and wants to work things out and claims he will wait and do whatever it takes to prove this is what he wants. It didn't really make sense to me until reading your posts! Its interesting to hear the other side, instead of just trying to make the connections and understand what you assume it all to be.
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post #68 of 295 (permalink) Old 09-30-2013, 05:28 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

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I've been following your thread and admiring your introspection. My H and I are considering reconciliation after a year and a half of separation (and both of us being with other people.) I would not be considering it if my H had not shown signs of introspection. We have both committed to counselling and not dating other people while we're doing it.

I'm not sure what to think about your wife's discomfort with touch. I think it is a clear sign that she isn't fully invested in a future with you yet. I can see that talk about having a baby with someone you aren't sure you want a future with might be a libido-killer and feeling pressured to touch when you don't naturally feel like it could also be a point of resistance. But I'm having a hard time relating. I have always been the high desire one in my relationship and when my husband and I were separated I wanted to have sex with him more than ever. My love languages, however, are the same as your wife's - words of affirmation and quality time.

What would make her feel invested? I don't know what kinds of conversations you've had so far, but the more my H has volunteered his realizations about how he hurt me and talked to me about the realizations about himself and how they affected me, the closer I felt to him. I can't imagine that you haven't had those conversations with her, but if I were her, the more I would hear you articulate what you did wrong and what you intend to do differently (and show the differences) the more I would trust and be willing to invest.
I hope everything works out for you both. I have been pondering something a lot lately that you sort of touched on at the end of your message. I have spent a great deal of time trying to explain little things that I have noticed about myself in the past that used to make her uncomfortable/hurt her. Often times, in the middle of a day or mid-conversation even, I'll pause and point out to her a moment of reflection, or maybe something will happen and before my natural response kicks in (whatever that might be) I'll suddenly notice that it is different than the response I used to have or the opposite, that the response I was about to employ was wrong and that I just caught it in that moment. I like to let her know when these sorts of moments happen because I figure it would make her feel good to know, just as you indicate it does for you.

However, usually my doing so doesn't elicit much of a response from her at all. Maybe a nod, maybe a brief "thank-you" without eye contact, etc.

But what I have been debating is that I have done that sort of thing for a long time. I have done a LOT of very beta male things for her for a long time now. She knows I'll serve her hand and foot if she asks, and sometimes if she doesn't. I read the "Married Man's Sex Life Primer" and I can see that I really need to cut down on those sorts of behaviors and switch to an Alpha role to a degree.

I think the biggest problem that I have right now is that she knows that I have committed to and enacted virtually every change that she has asked for. I think if you or anyone were to ask her if there was anything she would have to complain about regarding me, the only thing she might say is that she probably feels "nagged" by me about working on the marriage, pushing her to make an effort that is. She is sort of right, about every two weeks I break down and ask her where we stand as a couple, if she is making any efforts and what those are, etc. I go to sleep at night, alone, and drive myself crazy with thoughts of why she can't do some of the simplest things.

But the problem is that the case she has made is that she isn't yet emotionally ready to fully be a wife to me yet. She says she still feels emotionally hurt from the past, is learning to trust me, and simply doesn't yet feel comfortable enough with me to be physical in ANY WAY. (Yeah, she still hasn't kissed me since June 2010 and even hugs are received with loud "sigh's" of reservation) I guess I get that, in the sense that I know I'm a guy and I can't exactly dismiss her feelings because I can't relate to her at that level, so I can trust her or I can call her a liar, but the later won't get me anywhere. The further problem is that before the marriage went downhill, she was just as uncomfortable with virtually anything physical, especially sex.

So is she telling me the truth about just needing more time, or is she just enjoying what might be a "perfect marriage" in her book? One that is sexless, emotionless, with no touching or deep conversation, etc. She says the efforts she makes is by slowly entrusting me more, which I suppose she is doing at a snails pace, but such "effort" is also incredibly difficult to gauge, because it isn't exactly every day that she has to prove some new level of trust.

So I'm kind of stuck. In a small sense, things ARE getting better every week. In very small ways, they absolutely are, I can't deny that. The trouble is none of those ways involve her showing any form of loving signs as far as I can tell, expressing any love languages, let alone my primary one or two languages. So it's just really tough to endure right now.
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post #69 of 295 (permalink) Old 09-30-2013, 05:32 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

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This! Exactly what you said. When I asked my husband for a separation, (I said we needed a break before we hated each other), I figured he would take the new freedom and run. Which he did. He had total freedom, to do what he wanted, be with who he wanted, no responsibility, no kids or wife to make him accountable, etc. I gave up seeing him run (We continued to be together some for the first month and a half after he moved out) as I felt there was nothing left to hold onto to. Now hes back in our lives (not moved back in) and wants to work things out and claims he will wait and do whatever it takes to prove this is what he wants. It didn't really make sense to me until reading your posts! Its interesting to hear the other side, instead of just trying to make the connections and understand what you assume it all to be.
Yep, that's really really common. I'm guessing that you and he didn't draw up a separation agreement before separating? (Or maybe that you did but he broke it?) Either way, it sounds like he went out and had his fun, realized that the fun is really short lived and after a while, decided that he missed you and didn't want to face the life situation that would happen if the divorce materialized, for himself or his kids. I hope he stays on that track and doesn't deviate!

P.S. If it is important to you that he stay faithful to you now while you are officially on a reconciliation path, you should know that he'll likely be very tempted. He probably has a lot of new phone numbers on his phone, new friends, and he'll be tempted to keep in touch with them until the very last minute. He may still be very devoted to you, but those nights can still get cold and lonely, so the temptation is still very much there I assure you. Just an fyi!
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post #70 of 295 (permalink) Old 10-07-2013, 08:08 AM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

Cdbaker,
Stay strong. You have come this far. Unfortunately, we have to move at our wives' pace. When she is ready, you be ready.

Again, you two have come this far. Stick to your game plan. Trickling some alpha into yourself sounds like some great advice. I believe I will do the same.

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post #71 of 295 (permalink) Old 10-07-2013, 09:04 AM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

not even a single kiss by her means she has no intention of trying.
she wants everything from the marriage but the connection to you. She is using the past as an excuse, but you took her back after all and not even one kiss...
I think this is ridiculous and you are going to notice a pick up in this area from her just in time for her schedule to try for another kid, and at that time you will have been strung along for so long that you will take what ever morsel she gives you even if it means she is just trying to get pregnant.
Seriously man, you have essentially been begging her for physical touch and she will not bring it upon herself to even try for you. You are nothing but a maid, babysitter, provider, and a roommate to her.
EXACTLY WHAT YOU SAID YOU WOULD NOT WANT IF SHE CAME BACK.

How long are you going to live this way?
I think you let her know next time she mentions the having of another child that you are willing to try once you have had a few months of a healthy physical relationship with her. All of a sudden she will hear the clock on that few months does not start until she gets physical and since she wants a pregnancy to begin 1/2014 , and it is currently 10/2014, my guess you will get something physical from her almost immediately. She has a plan in place IMO and you are just the support system for that plan.
When she does a complete about face after you lay out the time frame, you need to be smart enough to realize you are being used.
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post #72 of 295 (permalink) Old 10-08-2013, 02:17 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

Well, for starters remember that I myself told her up front, without her asking for it, that I would not seek out or expect anything remotely sexual from her for a long while. I don't think I was specific about how long, but I think the message I tried to convey subtly was the rest of 2013, longer if we are making good progress. My pressuring her for all things sexual was a MAJOR problem before our marriage crumbled back in 2010, and led to even worse problems. So I believe strongly that the best way to help her heal now is to take that off the table completely.

See, back then it got to the point where she was almost afraid to risk turning me on in some way that would bring on the pressure and make her feel bad for turning me down again. She would keep herself covered, sleep with the blankets firmly tucked under herself between us to avoid any potential touch, change clothes with the bedroom locked, etc. Just because she didn't want to be put in a position of having to feel bad about her lack of libido and/or lack of sexual interest in me.

So I figured (and still believe, as mentioned above) that the best way to help her heal is to take that off the table. If she can trust that she can be open with me, change clothes in my presence, come to bed with me knowing there will be no pressure, etc., then I think that will help rebuild our relationship in a big way. From that starting point, I think a healthy sexual relationship could grow. Because again, you have to remember that in many ways prior to 2010, I was not her lover but her abuser. So I think it is unreasonable of anyone to suggest that just because she reached the point of being willing to make the commitment and move back in with me, that she should quickly be willing to sleep with me as well. In fact, I've had two different therapists tell me that it takes about the same amount of time as was spent in the bad relationship, to heal from the bad relationship, so I shouldn't expect any quick results.

Now if you or anyone else is simply trying to say that my wife isn't worth waiting that long for, that no marriage is, that life is too short to not be getting laid regularly, etc., then I can certainly understand that, but I'll disagree nonetheless.

I'm just expressing my... disappointment (?) that things aren't ramping up the way I had hoped they would. Meaning I figured within 60 days or so she'd be ok with light kisses at least or holding hands or something, maybe cuddling in bed at the 120 day mark, and progressing from there. As it stands now, we're still at awkward hugging, which bugs me.

Also, the "getting pregnant" thing has mostly been MY interest, not hers. I want more kids and I don't want to wait forever. In response to the last time I brought it up, she said she figured she'd be willing to start trying in January (Yep, about 90 days from now) but that was all that was said, and she last mentioned that about two months ago. So that could certainly change, and she isn't eager to get knocked up.
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post #73 of 295 (permalink) Old 10-08-2013, 03:20 PM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

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Well, for starters remember that I myself told her up front, without her asking for it, that I would not seek out or expect anything remotely sexual from her for a long while. I don't think I was specific about how long, but I think the message I tried to convey subtly was the rest of 2013, longer if we are making good progress. My pressuring her for all things sexual was a MAJOR problem before our marriage crumbled back in 2010, and led to even worse problems. So I believe strongly that the best way to help her heal now is to take that off the table completely.

See, back then it got to the point where she was almost afraid to risk turning me on in some way that would bring on the pressure and make her feel bad for turning me down again. She would keep herself covered, sleep with the blankets firmly tucked under herself between us to avoid any potential touch, change clothes with the bedroom locked, etc. Just because she didn't want to be put in a position of having to feel bad about her lack of libido and/or lack of sexual interest in me.

So I figured (and still believe, as mentioned above) that the best way to help her heal is to take that off the table. If she can trust that she can be open with me, change clothes in my presence, come to bed with me knowing there will be no pressure, etc., then I think that will help rebuild our relationship in a big way. From that starting point, I think a healthy sexual relationship could grow. Because again, you have to remember that in many ways prior to 2010, I was not her lover but her abuser. So I think it is unreasonable of anyone to suggest that just because she reached the point of being willing to make the commitment and move back in with me, that she should quickly be willing to sleep with me as well. In fact, I've had two different therapists tell me that it takes about the same amount of time as was spent in the bad relationship, to heal from the bad relationship, so I shouldn't expect any quick results.

Now if you or anyone else is simply trying to say that my wife isn't worth waiting that long for, that no marriage is, that life is too short to not be getting laid regularly, etc., then I can certainly understand that, but I'll disagree nonetheless.

I'm just expressing my... disappointment (?) that things aren't ramping up the way I had hoped they would. Meaning I figured within 60 days or so she'd be ok with light kisses at least or holding hands or something, maybe cuddling in bed at the 120 day mark, and progressing from there. As it stands now, we're still at awkward hugging, which bugs me.

Also, the "getting pregnant" thing has mostly been MY interest, not hers. I want more kids and I don't want to wait forever. In response to the last time I brought it up, she said she figured she'd be willing to start trying in January (Yep, about 90 days from now) but that was all that was said, and she last mentioned that about two months ago. So that could certainly change, and she isn't eager to get knocked up.
This expectation that you would have expected some affection because of all your doing is a covert contract. Did you read NMMNG?
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post #74 of 295 (permalink) Old 10-09-2013, 03:58 PM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

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Well, for starters remember that I myself told her up front, without her asking for it, that I would not seek out or expect anything remotely sexual from her for a long while. I don't think I was specific about how long, but I think the message I tried to convey subtly was the rest of 2013, longer if we are making good progress.

Also, the "getting pregnant" thing has mostly been MY interest, not hers. I want more kids and I don't want to wait forever. In response to the last time I brought it up, she said she figured she'd be willing to start trying in January (Yep, about 90 days from now) but that was all that was said, and she last mentioned that about two months ago. So that could certainly change, and she isn't eager to get knocked up.
Sorry CD, I'm coming back to this post after a while so don't remember if you consider your wife LD in general or not (which I think would be an underlying problem that makes none of the other things really matter), but I feel like I'm getting some mixed messages from you. You told her that you don't expect anything "remotely" sexual from her for a while and "subtly" conveyed that "a while" could mean until the end of 2013, but are now upset that she isn't doing anything remotely sexual? If I were her, I would have heard "He said there's no pressure to do anything physical I don't feel naturally like doing until January 1, 2014, but now he's telling me (or subtly hinting) that he DOES want me to do things I don't naturally feel like doing before January 1, 2014." Resentment and distrust rise.

And now that I know you're the one who wants the kid and not necessarily her, I think she may feel pressured to have sex for the sake of having a kid. More potential resentment around sex. That's a lot to take in when you're not even REALLY sure you want to be together as a couple.

But don't get me wrong - I APPLAUD all the hard emotional work you are doing.
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post #75 of 295 (permalink) Old 10-10-2013, 12:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

Firebelly: Yep I see what you mean, but I should clarify something that I think you misunderstand. I'm not upset that she isn't interested in doing anything remotely sexual, now or recently. I truly have no expectations of any sexual activity for the foreseeable future. The time when that might change seems to be sometime after she graduates from nursing school this December.

That relates to the whole "Get her preggo" thing. She herself has indicated to me that she does want to have another child with me. I have merely agreed, and when last I asked her if she had an idea of when she would like to try for that, she indicated after she graduates from nursing school in December. At that time, I replied, "So you're thinking maybe January-ish?" and she replied in the affirmative. Therefore, I would assume that means she feels or hopes at least, that she'll be comfortable with sexual activity at that time. I believe this conversation took place about two months ago, give or take a few weeks. (So early August perhaps)

Going back to my concerns expressed here... Again I'm not concerned or upset with her unwillingness to be sexual right now, I'm concerned about her unwillingness to be physically affectionate in ANY way. Hear me out. You would think that if January is roughly the timeframe for when sexual activity might be expected, that leading up to that time, things like hugs, kisses, cuddling, a willingness to change clothes in front of your partner, etc. would be reasonable/logical, right?

So that is the problem. She hasn't kissed me in nearly three and a half years. She hugs me, but doesn't feel comfortable cuddling in bed or changing clothes in front of me yet. According to her, we've been working on a reconciliation now for close to 18 months, and she moved back home a little over four months ago, and she still can't give me a kiss, or let herself be seen in her underwear while changing clothes even? (Not even naked, just underwear!)

So to answer your concern Firebelly, I guess I differentiate things like kissing, hugs, cuddling, comfort with nudity, etc. from all things involved in "sexual activity". I'm not looking for a hand job from her by any stretch, but a kiss would be nice, cuddling in bed would be nice, that sort of thing. And again, if she figures that a return to sexuality is due in as little as 9 weeks from now (when she graduates), then you would think she'd be opening up to those things as well.


One further clarification. I will not be willing to commit to trying to get pregnant if we haven't first recovered our romantic and sexual relationship. At this point I do trust her, but if January rolls around with not much having changed, and then one day she says she is ready to try to get pregnant, then that will not fly with me. I'm not interested in knocking her up and then watching the promise of romance and sexuality disappear again.
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