Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation - Page 6 - Talk About Marriage
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post #76 of 295 (permalink) Old 10-10-2013, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

One more thing, a question for everyone I suppose...

Our ten year marital anniversary is just a few weeks away, and I'm still not sure what I should do for her/us. We're "back together" but by no means are we romantic or physical yet. I'd love to take us out for a night on the town followed by a nice hotel room in the city or something like that, even with the 100% expectation of no sexual activity, but I don't think she'd be comfortable with that yet. I could buy her a gift like earrings or something but I don't know if she'd appreciate it right now. (Plus, money is always a concern for us) I think if I asked her right now what she thinks we aught to do, she'd probably say we should just skip it. If I don't do anything, I know she'll think that I don't care. So I'm not really sure of what I should do here.

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post #77 of 295 (permalink) Old 10-11-2013, 01:13 AM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

You are obviously very bright, and I believe wholeheartedly that you are a good man. But sir, in my opinion you are being played. Your wife is using you. I hate to be blunt, but your wife had repeated sex with a likely child molester. You have never been nor ever will be a child molester, and your wife knows this. As such, the 'trust' excuse is a crock in my opinion. I also believe you are assigning yourself an inordinate share of the blame to yourself for her mistreatment of you. I believe this is your coping mechanism.
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post #78 of 295 (permalink) Old 10-11-2013, 01:36 AM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

You are obviously very bright, and I believe wholeheartedly that you are a good man. But sir, in my opinion you are being played. Your wife is using you. I hate to be blunt, but your wife had repeated sex with a likely child molester. You have never been nor ever will be a child molester, and your wife knows this. As such, the 'trust' excuse is a crock in my opinion. I also believe you are assigning yourself an inordinate share of the blame to yourself for her mistreatment of you. I believe this is your coping mechanism. It is more than reasonable for you to expect your wife to have sex with you at this point. If she refuses, my opinion is that you are likely to be facing a custody battle. If I were you I would tell her to start giving it up or find a new place to live. Enough is enough.
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post #79 of 295 (permalink) Old 10-11-2013, 04:40 AM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

Talk to her about your anniversary, see what she thinks about it.

At the same time, you should ask about her future plans. Do they include you? Nursing school can be tough and usually is difficult. Does she show you daughter more love now? And I think she has some plans, but I am not sure that these plans include you.

She does not want you to touch her, for a long time now.
She is not in this marriage.
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post #80 of 295 (permalink) Old 10-13-2013, 12:43 PM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

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Originally Posted by cdbaker View Post

So that is the problem. She hasn't kissed me in nearly three and a half years. She hugs me, but doesn't feel comfortable cuddling in bed or changing clothes in front of me yet. According to her, we've been working on a reconciliation now for close to 18 months, and she moved back home a little over four months ago, and she still can't give me a kiss, or let herself be seen in her underwear while changing clothes even? (Not even naked, just underwear!)

So to answer your concern Firebelly, I guess I differentiate things like kissing, hugs, cuddling, comfort with nudity, etc. from all things involved in "sexual activity". I'm not looking for a hand job from her by any stretch, but a kiss would be nice, cuddling in bed would be nice, that sort of thing. And again, if she figures that a return to sexuality is due in as little as 9 weeks from now (when she graduates), then you would think she'd be opening up to those things as well.


One further clarification. I will not be willing to commit to trying to get pregnant if we haven't first recovered our romantic and sexual relationship. At this point I do trust her, but if January rolls around with not much having changed, and then one day she says she is ready to try to get pregnant, then that will not fly with me. I'm not interested in knocking her up and then watching the promise of romance and sexuality disappear again.
Maybe I'm biased 'cause I really want you to get rewarded for all your hard work, but I still have hope for you and her in the affection and sex department. I'm not convinced (like some of the people responding to your thread) that she is playing you.

Seems like you've said in this thread that you have had this discussion with her - that you've told her you'd like to have some physical affection? Maybe she's afraid that if she initiates those things you will see it as a sign that she's ready for sex when she's not? Have you had that discussion with her - that you won't take a kiss or her undressing in front of you as a sign that she's ready for sex if she's not? If that's her issue she may be more willing to be physically affectionate if she doesn't feel like she has to follow through with sex as a result.
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post #81 of 295 (permalink) Old 10-14-2013, 01:14 AM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

Wilderness - and all the men I see on TAM who seem to have this point of view - all due respect, sex is not the same for women. I'll be the first one to tell you that women in general want sex way more than our culture thinks or wants to think they do, but the biggest sex organ IS the brain. Libido IS dependent on how you think about the other person and what you think their expectations are and a whole host of other things. Women can and do feel NOTHING sexually for years for psychological reasons alone and then, blam, the guy has hit the tipping point of saying just the right amount of things, and you can't spread your legs fast enough.
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post #82 of 295 (permalink) Old 10-14-2013, 11:55 AM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

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Wilderness - and all the men I see on TAM who seem to have this point of view - all due respect, sex is not the same for women. I'll be the first one to tell you that women in general want sex way more than our culture thinks or wants to think they do, but the biggest sex organ IS the brain. Libido IS dependent on how you think about the other person and what you think their expectations are and a whole host of other things. Women can and do feel NOTHING sexually for years for psychological reasons alone and then, blam, the guy has hit the tipping point of saying just the right amount of things, and you can't spread your legs fast enough.

~Happily un-married since December 9, 2013~
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post #83 of 295 (permalink) Old 10-14-2013, 12:59 PM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

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Originally Posted by firebelly1 View Post
Wilderness - and all the men I see on TAM who seem to have this point of view - all due respect, sex is not the same for women. I'll be the first one to tell you that women in general want sex way more than our culture thinks or wants to think they do, but the biggest sex organ IS the brain. Libido IS dependent on how you think about the other person and what you think their expectations are and a whole host of other things. Women can and do feel NOTHING sexually for years for psychological reasons alone and then, blam, the guy has hit the tipping point of saying just the right amount of things, and you can't spread your legs fast enough.
Doesn't matter, imo. Sex is an obligation of marriage. As his wife she is obligated to do it whether she wants to or not. The fact that she had sex with a child molester, yet won't have sex with him is about the biggest slap in the face I can imagine.
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post #84 of 295 (permalink) Old 10-14-2013, 01:04 PM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

This women loves her husband, she just not in love w him .... And that is her struggle... Imho

~ sammy
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post #85 of 295 (permalink) Old 10-14-2013, 01:06 PM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

And p.s. Women love sex, they just dont like bad sex ...

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post #86 of 295 (permalink) Old 10-16-2013, 03:14 PM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

I just read this thread through...

Now I'm guzzling a Gatoraide... Jesus H.....

This thread has pissed me off like no other. Cdbaker I'm not going to elaborate on anything anyone has told you already. All I want to say is, if there is no affection, no physical intamacy, then what you have with your wife is nothing more than a living arrangement... a business agreement to live together and coparent the kid. This is not a marriage. Not even remotely a marriage.

Your wife is not LD, or conflicted, or confused...

She doesn't love you. A wife who loves her husband has sex with her husband.

And your marriage counselor is a moron for not holding your sorry excuse for a wife accountable for her past actions and present lack thereof.

The minute your wife gets her nursing degree and gets a job she's going to divorce you. That is my prediction.
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post #87 of 295 (permalink) Old 10-17-2013, 02:48 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

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Maybe I'm biased 'cause I really want you to get rewarded for all your hard work, but I still have hope for you and her in the affection and sex department. I'm not convinced (like some of the people responding to your thread) that she is playing you.

Seems like you've said in this thread that you have had this discussion with her - that you've told her you'd like to have some physical affection? Maybe she's afraid that if she initiates those things you will see it as a sign that she's ready for sex when she's not? Have you had that discussion with her - that you won't take a kiss or her undressing in front of you as a sign that she's ready for sex if she's not? If that's her issue she may be more willing to be physically affectionate if she doesn't feel like she has to follow through with sex as a result.
Yep we have actually had that conversation as well. Basically I thought that might be the case, that there could be a concern/fear that her initiating ANY kind of physical act (even something as simple as a kiss) might lead me to think that she is willing or wanting to go further. I imagine that no woman enjoys being put in a situation where a man is eagerly trying to seduce her when she has zero interest in it, and then having to reject him. So I reminded her one night a month or two ago of my promise to not push for or expect anything sexual from her for the foreseeable future, and I would let her know when that changes. I then specifically explained why I wanted reiterate that promise, saying that I didn't want her to have any fear as it relates to opening up to me in some way. That even if my dumb male brain starts to think, "Whoa, maybe she wants more! Maybe this is where I'm supposed to make a move? Women like us to do that right?!" or something similar, I will not act on it or even ask her about it.

I added that, of course, if she ever DID want to engage sexually, that she would have to directly state that to me in plain english. As we guys know, most women like it when we can read their signals and push just a little bit at the right times to show how desirous we are and willing to take control. And women will feel rejected and undesirable if a man does not act on those signals/hints after a while, so I also wanted it made clear she should not feel rejected if she starts dropping signals and I don't respond to them.
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post #88 of 295 (permalink) Old 10-17-2013, 02:56 PM
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

this is a painful read, man. I'm sorry you're in this situation. I think you're letting yourself be used.
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post #89 of 295 (permalink) Old 10-17-2013, 03:24 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

Personally, I think the problem is a little different. Going back a bit, before she ultimately moved out and immediately after her first "real" affair, she verbally committed to making the effort to repair the marriage. There were two problems then. The first was that she was still in love with the OM and struggled mightily to let him go, falling into a depression for several weeks which included her trying to reach out to him occasionally in weakness. (He was just using her for sex, he had no intention of leaving his wife/kids)

We don't have that problem now, but the second problem she had was that she felt that by coming home (we'd separated for about a month) and doing the "right" thing by ending the affair, recommitting to her husband/family, going back to MC, to church, etc. that things would naturally get better. After all, doing the "RIGHT" thing is always for the better, right? Plus she had all her friends and family urging her to do so, again because it was the right thing to do. Commit to her vows, marriage has its up's and downs and you have to ride them out sometimes and their worth it in the end, etc.

The problem is, things didn't get better right away as she had expected. Coming home to me, a man she was no longer in love with because of a history of marital problems (especially while she was still in love with another) was exhausting and miserable for her. Knowing the things she had done and the pain she'd put me through also weighed heavily on her when having to see me every day, not to mention the guilt/shame of knowing that everyone else knew about it as well. The pressure of the world was on her to do the right thing now, that she'd "screwed up" by having the affair and that if she gave up now then she'd REALLY be an awful person. All the while everyone (friends/family) believing that I was some kind of a saint for even taking her back at all. I'm pretty sure I became the embodiment of everything in her life that was making her miserable, even though she knew I was only responsible for a small part of it, that being the marital issues I contributed to prior to her affair. The expectations placed on her by myself and everyone else in her life were enormous.

Trying to see that from an outsider perspective (which I can't perfectly do of course) I think anyone in that situation would have an INCREDIBLY difficult time truly trying to rebuild love and trust with that person, no matter how good the man is. So my thought now is that perhaps something similar is going on now. The pressures on her probably aren't quite as great as they were before, but I see all the same building places there.

First, I think she has seen the improvements I've made in the last few years, the efforts I have made, and that I am a decent man and good father. She knew that it would be better for our daughter if we could reconcile our marriage and build it stronger. Her family and most of her friends all hoped it would be possible too. I think the problem is that, just like last time, she just hasn't FELT better about it yet. I think a big part of her hoped/expected that simply doing the right thing and coming home and trusting me more would result in her feelings of love returning, that everything would "naturally" just "get better" on their own.

I get this idea because of the various promises and assurances she has made in the past as it relates to our future that haven't quite turned out the way she indicated or have been delayed. Like sleeping in the same bed together, kisses, even possibly trying to get pregnant after she graduates in December seems to be pretty unlikely at this point. I think she really truly believed that she would feel far more comfortable with me at this point in time than she is today. And worse, I fear that the fact that she isn't feeling that degree of comfort with me after this much time, might be leading her to question her decision to give this another try, regardless of any efforts on my part.


Another thought I have been pondering lately... is that it seems to me like she just has no interest in love, physical intimacy, etc. with ANYONE. Even long after the last affair partner (the one who tried to bed a minor and is in jail), she never pursued or accepted the solicitations of anyone else. In the last six months before he was arrested, when she says they weren't really in a relationship, she didn't pursue anyone else then either. Since returning home, despite my being somewhat vigilant, I haven't seen any evidence of any kind to indicate that she is interested in anyone else, seeing anyone else, or speaking with anyone else inappropriately. I mean, I'm not tracking her computer/phone usage or crossing any trust boundaries or anything, but I'm not a fool, I keep my eyes and ears open for warning signs.

So I guess I struggle with the notion that anyone could simply lose interest in sex/romance/relationships altogether. When my wife left, even though I spent the next three and a half years trying to win her back, I only waited about two months before I opened up to seeing other women, based on the belief that our marriage was likely doomed anyway. I crave intimacy, and not just sexually speaking either. I could understand going without for a while, but for 1.5 - 2 years now? It's hard for me to comprehend. Naturally, I hope that she hasn't just become (or maybe always has been) asexual, though it is something I have long feared for many years.
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post #90 of 295 (permalink) Old 10-17-2013, 03:53 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Wife moving back in after 3+ year separation

Wilderness, Harry, Bandit, Sammy, etc... Maybe you are all right, maybe she is playing me. I'm still at this point convinced that she is not, due to a number of reasons, many of which I have detailed here and maybe a few I haven't.

I do want to restate it again just to be clear. My wife was not knowingly sleeping with a sex offender. He did the horrible things he did while they were together completely without her knowing while she worked nearly full time while a full-time nursing student. He was an overnight warehouse security guard (the kind who sits in a booth waiting for truck deliveries to show up and check them in, provided a TV to watch and a TON of free time) who after searching his car and hidden spaces in the apartment, was found with about a dozen pre-paid cell phones to conceal his activities. She was fooled more than anyone, and felt extreme guilt and humiliation for having not known or suspected it. So her having an affair was wrong and she has to live with that, but the fact that he turned out to be a sexual predator doesn't make it any worse, more shameful, etc.


One more thing that's worth piecing together, going all the way back to her freshman year of high school, she has had relationships with four different men since that time, ALL of whom have betrayed her in some extreme way, and all of those also included sexual betrayal. To summarize:

1. 9th Grade BF: Dated for a few months then insisted on taking her virginity, knocked her up within a few weeks of that starting, then dumping her a few weeks later. Upon learning of her pregnancy, he launched into a campaign to turn their entire grade/school against her by publicly branding her as a ****, a tramp, not worthy of decency, with her growing belly as proof of his assertions. He and his friends would follow her, taunt her, threaten her in the halls at school, etc. She gave up the baby for adoption to a family who could not have children, while he went on to marry his 2nd cousin and then cheat on her relentlessly. Incidentally, while she was pregnant she was raped by a classmate who got her over to his house by lying to her about having a party.

2. Me. She and I met and started dating about six months after the baby was born. After our marriage I became a pervert/sexual deviant/porn addict who actively sought to get her to have sex with others so that I could watch and then possibly participate, take intimate pictures/video of her or us to post online for others, openly blaming her for her lack of libido and refusing her desire for another child as a result, willing to "throw her under the bus" in order to make myself look better in the eyes of others, etc. She felt unloved, undesirable, unworthy of love, and trapped, all while I was completely clueless. She was miserable in the last year or two before she ultimately began the first affair.

3. OM #1. In her misery, she was incredibly susceptible to any other man who might pay her a moments notice, like a woman wandering the dessert starving of thirst and then being offered a glass of water, she clung to it. He was married with kids, and made promises left and right to her, all the while increasingly demanding more of her sexually, including his own perverted fantasies. (Sex in public, in dirty places, etc.) Things she never would have been into on her own. He repeatedly broke his promises, used her and once caught, dumped her to the side. She was left completely heartbroken and incredibly angry.

4. Final OM #2, now incarcerated as a sex offender. After briefly returning home to try to "make things right" but struggling to do so under the circumstances (check my post a few posts up for details), she met OM #2 who easily recognized the opportunity before him and quickly seduced her into doing his will. Charming and a master manipulator, he topped OM #1 by a mile, using her at will, requiring her to tattoo his initials to her wrist (which she covered up a week later when he wasn't around, against his wishes of course), making her engaged in even more twists sexual exploits, all while still pursing other (elusively young) women at the same time behind her back. He too made promises that he broke, and used her financially as well, insisting that she pay the rent and all the bills herself with 30/hr per week job while in full-time nursing school, saying that he barely had enough money for his cigarettes and food after much of his check would be garnished for child support payments and financial judgments against him. Then of course, there was ultimately his arrest and the slow unraveling of everything he was doing behind her back. She was left ashamed, angry, humiliated, etc.


She is 29 years old, and what I just described represents the last 14 years of her life. Not to mention the fact that the first ten years of her life consisted of her parents divorce before she was born due to abuse, her mom going through a series of boyfriends including a couple who moved in with them, and her dad has since been divorced four times. So honestly, I think she has darn good reasons to be fearful and distrustful of true commitment, love, physical intimacy, etc. Having been repeatedly used, betrayed, or witness to betrayal and broken promises her entire life, who could blame her???
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