dg2003

So I have a bit of a delimma. I'd like to keep this short and sweet, but its not that easy.

About 2 years ago, my wife and I decided together to try swinging to spice up the marriage.
We both had a good time with it, but after a few months we met a couple that wanted to be more or less 'exclusive' with us.
At the time I didnt want to give up swinging and it is what all the other people wanted, so I just went with it, even though I was hesitant.

After a couple months passed, I found that I was not into the exlclusive thing that much, but the other 3 were head over heels obsessed with it. Everyone was talking about how great it was all the time and how it would be great for this to go on... forever.
That was my first clue that things were going to get bad eventually down the road.

Over time, I dropped hints about "what if something didnt work out and this wasn't a 'forever' thing" and I aslo had talks about being uncomfortable with how much, the content, etc.. of what we were doing. Hoping that someonewould pick up that I wasn't happy. Instead of picking up on the signs that I wasnt liking it, things were just kind of 'tweaked' along the way... and everyone but me was still oblivious to my
feelings and the dangers of what this could build into.
All they could see is that this is 'the greatest thing in the world'.

So, over time (as you really get to know people, and the 'new-ness' wears off) I learned a few things.
I learned that our Friend's marriage is not very good and has not been through the whole duration of their marriage.
The husband is content with the wife (because she does everything for him) and she is not content with him. And supposedly never has been through the whole marriage. Now that she has met me, she sees that there is much more out there than what she has, and she started taking to me, much more than she should have. To the point where she was wishing things were 'different'... if you know what I mean.
Well, she was also way to needy of what she needed out of me as a 'best freind'. We needed to talk in email, multiple times a day, she had to have phone calls, she needed me to say certain things to her at certain times to 'make her feel better'. It was more of a 2nd marriage, than a friendship.

So that was enough to make me even more uncomfortable, but on top of it, I could see my wife and the husband also gravitating closer together. Each of us found more of 'us' in the other couple that we were with, so over time my wife and the husband started becoming very close.
It all started as great freinds, but then as I started trying to widdle down the frequency that we see them, the amount of 'together' time that we had, that seemed to push them closer and closer together. And I could feel it.

So I went through a year or year and a half of wishing that things would just end.
I didnt just want to 'end it', but I did voice my opinion about how things were going and the way I saw them through my eyes.
The response: I was just overly paranoid and jealous, and it probably even pushed my wife away from me more. She kept blaming me for taking away her happiness, and that I am controlling and want my happiness over hers.

After many more aruguments along the way, I also found out that my wife has been unhappy in our marriage for the last 7 years or so.
(Kids were born 9 years ago)
So at this point, I am feeling used. The wife is telling me that she thinks of me as a friend, and I see the way she lights up around the other man.

At the end, I find out that she has more than just 'best friend' feelings for him, and that they have talked about having these feelings about each other.

At that point my line was crossed and I said I am done. No more swinging, no more friendship. I needed out.
I needed us to work on our marriage without the distraction of 'him'.

After a lot more fighting, a bunch of counseling, my wife and I are still together. She is upset at me to this day, thinking that I am controlling and that I took her best freind away from her. She can't understand why I can't let us all just get together 'as freinds'.

I look at my wife and the other guy falling in love as more of an 'affair' more than anything.
Yes, the sex was there (because we were swinging) but it was the feelings on top of it that make it feel like an affair to me.
Basically I feel that her heart is with him, but her body is physcially with me. (Moreso for the family, the kids, having the life we have financially, etc...)

So for the last 3 or 4 months, we basically have a big argument about my wife wanting her freinds back in our life (where I want to distance myself and get them out of my life - as I really did not enjoy those last 2 years together with them) We have that argument, then we make up after a day or two, and we live life as a family for the next 3 weeks, and eventually the same fight comes up again.
She makes commetns that she thinks about her friendship with him every day, that she feels I am controlling, and that she cannot have the freindship in her life and that she is not happy.

Its the same cycle over and over. She does not understand why I would be jealous and not want them/him in my life. She does not understand why I am so 'cold' and that I can just abandon our best freinds like that. She keeps saying that she can just be freinds with him, and just becasue she hasn't left me up to now for him means that she can handle just being freinds with him. She doesnt understand how I can think of this as an 'affair'.

I'm trying to keep them out of our lives so that our family can grow together and hopefully my wife and I can get back what we had.
(She is trying also, but has the loss of her 'best freind' as the first thing on her mind all the time)

I'm trying to keep them out of our lives so that they can work on their marriage (as they were admitting they were having issues at the end also.)
I'm trying to keep them out of our lives so that I dont make the same mistake twice and allow my wife and the husband to enhance the way they already feel about each other.
I"m trying to keep them out of our lives because I am jealous of him and I dont want to be near him, knowing that our marriage is in danger with him around.
I dont hate him and he is a nice guy, but I know she would be happier with him.

I'm to the point where I tell her to contact him if she wants, just so that I dont have to take the blame of being controlling. I do realize that if she is in contact with him, that it would drive me nuts and that it may be the end of the marriage anyways, but at least I dont have to listen to her blaming me of being controlling.

She also wont take any blame for what has happend here. She tells me that it is my fault and I need to take responsibility because I came up with the idea of us swinging. Yes, I had the idea, but we both agreed to do it. Its her fault for getting to involved and losing sight of what is important.
We both enjoyed the casual swinging, but the 'exclusive' part is what drove everything into the ground. After we did that, that is when the downward spiral began. I hated it, she loved it.
Now she has a 'best friend' in the world, which she has never had before (I feel its that she still loves him) and it is one of the most important things to her in her life, is to get that back.

The catch is that I dont want the relationship with those freinds. So how is she going to be freinds with him while I dont approve of it, and it puts our marriage in jeopardy? And how will she be able to be freinds with him, and his wife gets nothing out of it? (because I want to put them behind us. Its all too painful to me)
She just doesnt understand that it can't work.

I tell her she needs to just make up her mind what she wants and go for it. I'm ready for anything to happen either way, but she is scared of losing me and the family and is terrified of being on her own, so I think that is why she is just choosing to go along with my "controlling self", and then she has someone to blame.

I'm running short on patience. I want our family to succeed more than anything and I love my wife more than anything, but I can't let a man back into our lives that threatens my marriage.

What do I do?
Do I just give it more time, like a year - and if things dont change, then move on?
Do I let them back in, knowing that I will not like hanging around with him, AND that I will let the wife down as I dont want anything more from her that just another 'casual freind'?
Do I just stay with my wife for the kids sake for another 9 years, then leave? (wasting 9 years of my life?)
Do I just stick to my guns and let my wife feel like I am controlling? (where she was the one that made the 'big mistake' with the other guy?)

I do know that I'm ready to move on, I'm also wanting to keep fighting for our family (as we DID have something good at one time). I also know that I will not be able to handle her being in communication with the other guy.
The biggest thing that drives me nuts that my wife can't see the dangers in what has happened here and what can happen if we continue to be close friends.

...or am I just a controlling ****?

the guy

I stopp reading after you mentioned the word controlling a dozen time.
So here my take, you are the captin of this ship called marriage and it is your job to protect it and stir it in the course you see fit.
You are not controlling your wife, she has the choice to abandon ship and leave her family, you have no control over that, but as the captian you have boundries and a compus that you use and this id you choice in the direction you want your marriage to go.

Remember she can jump off any time that is not in your control but what is ...is how you handle your self and what you belive as the husband that you want this or that for the marriage and you want a healthier marriage and you both have the choice to be in the one you are in now or she can go and find the one she wants and you can go find the one you want. But until then your boundries are what you have and believe they are best for the current marriage.

So next time it comes up tell her you are not controlling her but you will control the marriage and it is her choice in wanting to stay in it.

You are responsable as the husband to guild your marriage in a healthy direction. So no with respect to the marriage you will no tolorate her re befriending this couple. But you will not stop her if she desided to leave and you divorce her so as to find another partner that respect your view on a health marriage and family.

I'll be back I want to finish the rest of your post.

the guy

Do not let them back in never ever let them back. stay strong and replace that need she desires by being her best friend.

You know what will happen so do not let it... stay strong in the belief that you are not controlling her but are stiring your marriage in the right direction

*YOU ARE NOT BEING CONTROLLING*

You are asking for respect. Respect for your wishes and respect for the kids

You are protecting your family like you should so stop talking like this you are so close to caving in....man back up and remain on the path that you are on. she will come along, she is just having a hard time getting over the break up with her boyfriend and is grieving her loss. Understand that breaking up is hard to do.

Show her alot of support and acknowledge her loss and aggre with her feelings and be supportive and understanding. Let her know you understand her pain but in the same breath the both of you know what is best in the marriage and that you will give her time to heal. Let her know that you will be her rock and she can lean on you as she heals. Validate her pain and take the responsablity for putting her in that enviorment.

If she askes again if she can contact OM tell her she knows the right answer and she knows what best in keeping the family in a healthy place. Its not just about you its about the entire dynamics of having a health marriage with out unhealth influences such as her boyfriend. Even if she thinks it will be healty for her, remind her that she to has responsablities also and as unhappy as it is for her, she has the kids and the family as a whole to consider and in the long run her pain will fade and her family will be intact to have it grow for years to come... in a happy enviorment. That kind of happiness out wieghs her happiness in being with a married man.

If she wants you will answer the question of going back but the answer will always be NO! Not b/c you want to control her and make her un happy but you know in your heart everyone will be happy in the future as they raise the kids together and watch them grow in the same house hold.

dg2003

Thanks for replying.
That is exactly how I feel and why I've done what I've done.
I've done this all for the family. (Which includes myself)
It hasn't been easy and it hurts that she does not see or understand the dynamics of the whole picture.

I think about caving in, just for her, but then I feel I'm letting myself down (for not sticking to what is right for the family) and I think about all the sad and jealous feelings I'm going to feel every day as they (wife and OM) talk together.
It would probably be the undoing of our marriage.

In doing what I'm doing all I can hope for is that it is something she will be able to get over in time and realize the TRUE reason of why we need to stay away from them.
If she doesn't ever 'get it' then she will just be upset at me every day until the end of time (or our marriage)

the guy

Just please tell me you are sticking to your guns, no matter how much guilt or pain or what ever your wife throws at you.

You have to believe the pain you feel for your wifes pain is no were near the consequence of bending and letting them be together.

I find it hard to believe you feel that bad that your wife feels that bad, when you know you are doing the right thing.

In the other post you mention her commitment to the family. work with that and granted she may be just submitting to the fact that she has a family obligation, but really want something else. That just the now and with professinal help and your extra support she will get over it. So stick with the NC and promise you will not break this family up by gaving in.

I wish I could read a better tone in this last post, but it sound like you are going to let her contact her boyfriend. MAN, YOU KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN!

I know you want her to be happy so let it come from you not the boyfriend. You can do it, take her out, go on a trip, hit a club and get some strange for the both of you...wait thats what got you here in the 1st place, IDK maybe some strange will help.

Do some family things together and do it more often. Be positive when you walk into the room smile when you answer her phone sound up beat and positive. You all bumbed out cause she's bumbed out now everyones bumbed out...change that be happy. show her a reason to be with you.

This all will be hard work but do not let them regain there friendship no matter how painful its for the both of you. Yopu know dam well that you will regret it .

dg2003

No. I'm not planning on giving in.
My plan is to ride this out until the end. (good or bad)

Your posts are encouraging. I need some of that from people becasue of the fact that I can't talk about this with just 'anyone'. As far as physically talking about this stuff, I have my wife (which is not always the best person to vent to) my counselor and God. (And the internet)

So, if anyone else wants to lend a hand, I'd love to hear from you.

mmomof3

Just a quick woman's perspective, have you asked her what she sees in him that she doesn't find in you (honesty can hurt). Since the grass is always greener on the otherside maybe it's just the idea of what it would be like but to vocalize what's so great may not make it so great or it could give you ideas about what she's missing. Maybe he "pays more attention to her" -read he tells her she looks nice or whatever. Try not to be too defensive if you really want to work it out and listen.

dg2003

Yes, we have had very serious talks like that.
Everything is out in the open between us. Every single thing.

They have the same kind of personality so they feel they are always on the same wavelength, and also being 'new' for her (or at least newer than me) I'm sure that is always something that will be a distraction, because 'something different' is always more fun.

Syrum

You steered your marriage in this direction, and it was a terrible decision. This is what happens when you stop focusing on how to make your relationship better and start adding other people in.

From her perspective when you asked to swing, she probably felt she wasn't enough for you. She also probably felt deep down that if you wanted to share her you couldn't possibly be the loving protective husband she may have needed. She probably went a long with it so she would not lose you.

The other man is providing her a connection she needs and wasn't getting from you. He confirms that she is attractive enough, something you did not do when you asked to go outside the marriage, so now this mans attention is building her self esteem back up.

You made huge mistake. Do not say that the swinging was not a mistake, that the exclusive swapping was the mistake, because i really don't believe that. Swinging weakened your marriage and probably destroyed the faith your wife had in you and your ability to be faithful and love only her. You need to let her know that the whole thing was one huge mistake and you are sorry for doing that to you. Let her know she is more then enough for you and you never want any one else again.

Then set your boundaries and let her know that you simply will not put up with either of you stepping outside the marriage again for emotional or physical affairs.

dg2003

Thanks for the input, but you are way off.
She lost 'the spark' for me over 7 years ago.
We both agreed on swinging together, and agreed to follow all the rules that it comes with, and it worked great for us, up to the point where we went 'exclusive' and let the personal feelings take over.
She wanted the swinging more than I did. She used it as a thought or a tool as a way to try to fix her happiness in this marriage.
I treat her (without over the top smothering) perfectly. The way any woman would want a husband, and she knows this and has told me this. She tells me all the time that I am 'the perfect' husband and father... She just doesnt have the feelings she once had long ago.
I'm not saying that the 'good swinging' fixed our marriage when we started it, but we were both enjoying our marriage more. (And she still did not tell me how she had felt about me over the last 7 years at this point)

So as far as 'making her feel loved and special', its actually the other way around. She knows how much she is loved and that I would die for her in an instant. She would not do the same for me though.
She knows that I am the one that wants our family to be just that. She knows I dont want to swing. She is the one that wants it. She is the one that finds happiness out of it, which hurts me.

It sounds like you have a very strong opinion about swinging.
Yes, there are tons of dangers there, but in some weird circumstances... it works for a marriage. Our counselor(s) have even said this to us.
It very much worked for us up to the point of getting personal. That is where the issues came up (in addition to her not having feelings for me for years before the swinging)

PBear

Here's my take on it. You need to man up. You seem to be doing a lot of wishing and waiting for things to get better, but you end up giving in. You need to draw a line in the sand, and stick to it. If your wife doesn't want that, then it's time to say goodbye.

Yes, you all had rules set up to begin with. In an ideal world, it was a great idea. Unfortunately, feelings and emotions rarely follow the rules. I'm speaking from experience on this, so I can sympathize. But your situation is what it is, and now you have to decide how to go forward to make it better. But WAITING for it to get better isn't going to help.

C

rudolphmx

I'm really sorry to say this, from a woman's perspective, it sounds to me as though she is not in love with you anymore. For some reason that I don't know she just hasn't left you yet. She is completely in love with this other man. There was obviously something that happend years ago that caused her to loose that "spark," and if these problems had been addressed then you two would not be where you are. It sounds like you were blind to her feelings, and equally, she was not honest about them. It also sounds like when you realized what was going on you decided to try to save your marriage, but it is too late.

Also, you are not being controlling, if you were you would have ended it the minute you had second doubts. She is just trying to make you feel bad so she can justify her feelings. The best thing both of you can do for your individual happiness is to part ways. She has apparently found her happiness, now it is time for you to find yours, because trust me it's out there.

dg2003

Well,
I plan to stick to my plan. Thanks for the votes from some of you that I am not contolling. It makes me feel like I'm headed down the right path (for our family at least)

I know there is not much I can do as most of it is in her court.
All I can do is end it and move on with my life... But I also have to consider that there is a family involved.

I think her mind is made up (as far as I go) but I can't be 100% sure at this point as she is hanging on and isnt giving up herself. Ultimately though, she always ends up being so upset about the freindship and her loss that it over shadows our ability to work on... us.

So, I'm hanging in there for a while yet to see if time can cure her wounds. Maybe it can, maybe not... But if there is a chance that she can pull through this for me and the boys, then I want to give it a little time.

It wont be forever though. I'm kind of at the end of my rope, and I know she is having a rough time letting me in at all.
I dont want to quickly make a decision that I or she would regret. We have a lot riding on things if we end up splitting.
(Family & financially) but we both know that ulmiately happiness is at the root of everything. Its just a matter of her determining if what she has 'here' is enough for her.

4sure

She wants to have her cake and eat it too, so to speak. She wants to hold on to you who gives her security, family, money. While she screws some other guy with your permission.
You gave this to her, then snatched it away. She is now doing whatever it will take to get it back.

dg2003

Yep. That is the most condensed version that could be done on the matter. I tried to do that, but couldnt do it in that few sentances. lol