The last attempt - Page 3 - Talk About Marriage
Relationships and Addiction Whether it's drugs, alcohol, gambling, sex, pornography, or anything else, addictions can be detrimental to the health of a relationship.

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post #31 of 40 (permalink) Old 12-21-2016, 06:34 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The last attempt

You're an angry person, indeed, full of venom, I actually think you're profile name is a misnomer
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post #32 of 40 (permalink) Old 12-21-2016, 07:33 PM
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Re: The last attempt

Is this thread for real? Most guys watch porn, it's nothing new or particularly unusual and it's much more harmless than the alternatives, during times when sex is not possible with your wife. Why do you call it an addiction?

Chatrooms: I would say is a bit more questionable but still in similar category. If it's anonymous, you were most likely chatting with a dude anyway and the pictures of 'himself' were probably from the internet.

My wife knows I watch porn now and again when we can't do it and she is fine with it (although she would prefer me not to look at it and if I knew it bothered her that much, I would easily give it up). She is MUCH more arousing to me than any of the porn I have seen. Also porn gets incredibly boring and repetitive after a while! You can't smell or taste anything which is half the fun!

"...driven by the fantasy-type scenarios which porn propagates"

Can you elaborate? There are so many different kinds of porn and there's nothing wrong with being adventurous in the bedroom. The stuff my wife sometimes comes up with is sometimes much more elaborate than anything I have seen in porn...
If it involves donkeys or midgets, perhaps I would feel sorry (for the donkey).

"1. Surrender my sexuality to God, and ask Him to change me, to give me eyes for my wife, after all we have been through, to help my struggle..."

Are you serious? Don't ask god to do all the hard work for you.
The first thing I would address is why you don't find your wife sexually attractive in the first place. Don't blame porn, this is too easy.
A shot in the dark here but are you definitely attracted to women?
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post #33 of 40 (permalink) Old 12-21-2016, 07:54 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The last attempt

Hey, Inmyprime, what kind of a question is that? Where does that come from? Am I attracted to women? Seriously? I was actually reading your post with interest until the last statement, which was ridiculous. What you and your own wife do, what you do, how often you look at porn, whether or not she minds, that's fine for you guys. It has affected my marriage tremendously, and has not been welcomed as an alternative when sex is not an option. I don't expect everyone to understand pornography use as an addiction, and as such, it may be impossible for you to understand. Please don't make light of the situation by making accusations of homosexual feelings. That's not even worth the chat thread.
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post #34 of 40 (permalink) Old 12-21-2016, 08:22 PM
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Re: The last attempt

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Originally Posted by 71Climber View Post
Hey, Inmyprime, what kind of a question is that? Where does that come from? Am I attracted to women? Seriously? I was actually reading your post with interest until the last statement, which was ridiculous. What you and your own wife do, what you do, how often you look at porn, whether or not she minds, that's fine for you guys. It has affected my marriage tremendously, and has not been welcomed as an alternative when sex is not an option. I don't expect everyone to understand pornography use as an addiction, and as such, it may be impossible for you to understand. Please don't make light of the situation by making accusations of homosexual feelings. That's not even worth the chat thread.
71, you are not obligated to respond to every post. You are not obligated to respond to any, frankly.

Take what is helpful from the forum and feel free to leave the rest.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #35 of 40 (permalink) Old 12-21-2016, 08:30 PM
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Re: The last attempt

My apologies, I didn't mean to offend you with the question (it really shouldn't be offensive, especially if it is not applicable to you...).
Let me try differently and forget my question about your sexual orientation if it offends you: has there ever been a time when you WERE attracted to your wife?
You say that porn has affected your marriage. But how do you KNOW it was porn? You didn't say in your post that you marriage was absolutely fine and that you had a buoyant sexual life until you started looking at porn...
Rather, you said (IIUIC) that you started looking at porn when you were 11 and at some point you got married and wanted to re-enact some of the things you saw? Have you actually harmed your wife in any way? It reads as though it is your marriage that got in the way of your relationship with porn rather than the other way around.
I don't mean to mock your problems but the first step before you can fix a problem, it's important to identify it.
Different people have different kinds of sexual preferences when it comes to it. In large part, we are born with them and have to accept ourselves for who we are and learn to live with them. And as long as it doesn't harm another human being, there's absolutely nothing wrong with it.

I am not speaking of myself and my wife: but if I told you that ALL men watched porn (majority watch it regularly) and that men who do not watch porn regularly are more likely to cheat, would this change your outlook on it? (There are studies you can google).

*I cannot for the life of me understand why almost everyone is biting your head off for watching porn. Having an EA is another thing but chatrooms are really NOT an affair, especially not an emotional one....

Last edited by inmyprime; 12-21-2016 at 08:40 PM.
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post #36 of 40 (permalink) Old 12-21-2016, 08:54 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The last attempt

Inmyprime, no worries, man, I appreciate the response. You are 100% correct in that the overwhelming majority of men, and some women look at porn in differing degrees, for sure, especially with its anonymity, availability, easy access, etc. It is pervasive in our culture and a bigger industry than Apple. I think men, women, and couples are all over the place with it. I can only speak to my own experience. Having been exposed to it, and it having been a private and regular battle, especially at a young age, as my sexuality was forming, definitely was influential in forming arousal templates in my brain, etc. Rather than forming a healthy sexual development based on intimacy, the objectification of women's bodies readily accessible in porn created something entirely different. As such, I brought this into my marriage. My wife and I have always been friends, and we get along very well, but secretly within our marriage, I allowed my porn use to cause me to control our sexual intimacy. It became more about fulfilling my fantasies, rather than our uniting as one, and it being an expression of our love for one another. Rather than seeing my wife as a person, she was a means to an end-my satisfaction. In my case, pornography was not enough. I discovered an internet chat room maybe 10 years ago, and that represented a new level of excitement. This was a different level altogether, a different level of infidelity. It's a very very long story, and to encapsulate it would take me an hour to write it. My arousal template, created when I was so young, is something that I am working through. I believe attraction is very important, but I have been unreasonable in this regard, based on an unrealistic expectation, which I trace back to porn. Now, I"m just trying to discover what normal intimacy looks like, and how to love my wife unselfishly, and love her for who she is, and see her essence, rather than just her body. It's a process for sure.
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post #37 of 40 (permalink) Old 12-21-2016, 09:08 PM
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Re: The last attempt

"Now, I"m just trying to discover what normal intimacy looks like"

This is the thing. I am not sure there is such a thing as "normal intimacy". "Normal" is whatever two adult parties consent to and whatever turns them on!
I am not so sure it is fair to hold porn responsible for forming our sexual preferences and behaviour. I think it can trigger and excite something that was potentially already there. But it would be unreasonable to hold it accountable for ALL our sexual preferences. This is why I feel blaming a sexually dysfunctional marriage on porn may be masking the real issue.

Without knowing more specifically what it is that porn scenarios provide that can't be had with your wife, it's difficult to give advice (as I wrote, there is literally all kinds of porn out there, sensual and romantic type as well..)

"Rather than seeing my wife as a person, she was a means to an end-my satisfaction"

But if, at the end, she was also satisfied, what is wrong with both people ending up being a "means to an end" during sex? Or if she wasn't satisfied, why is it not possible to satisfy her afterwards? (or beforehand?). What's porn got to do with it?
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post #38 of 40 (permalink) Old 12-21-2016, 09:18 PM
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Re: The last attempt

"The study found that men watched pornography that matched their own image of sexuality, and quickly discarded material they found offensive or distasteful.

Prof Lajeunesse said pornography did not have a negative effect on men's sexuality.
“Not one subject had a pathological sexuality,” he said. “In fact, all of their sexual practices were quite conventional.

“Pornography hasn't changed their perception of women or their relationship, which they all want to be as harmonious and fulfilling as possible,” he added."

All men watch porn, scientists find - Telegraph

I would leave the possibility open that it is us, who select what type of porn we watch and what turns us on in general, rather than the other way around. It is not black and white of course and I am sure there are external factors at play that may contribute too, especially when young, but it wouldn't be the majority, IMO!
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post #39 of 40 (permalink) Old 12-22-2016, 05:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: The last attempt

Inmyprime, we shall agree to disagree on this subject. To each his own. We have lived different lives. Pornography has, in no way, been a positive in any aspect of my marital relationship. It has not helped to enhance intimacy. I realize that what men and women enjoy with each other, what they find arousing sexually, what satisfies them together and as individuals is really between them. If pornography is part of that equation, then it is.

Have all men that have access to the internet viewed pornography? I would say the absolute overwhelming majority. Do all men view porn regularly currently? I would say no. Do most men, on occasion, go to pornographic websites? I would say yes. Are there a good number of men who actually have an addiction? I would say that the number would be shocking. Gone are the days of magazines and going to video stores. Now, it is 1 million % easier, and we're visual creatures, so it's an easy temptation.

Im my opinion, there should be no defense of porn. It may be titillating, arousing, and exciting, as it generates an incredible chemical release in the brain, but it always takes away, rather than adding to. It is a stealer of intimacy. It is insidious in that it reduces the interaction to just that-an act, where the end goal is physical pleasure. The end goal is orgasm. It is counterfeit, and it cannot be played with. Porn is an entity which causes the viewer to unwittingly compare his spouse to the images that he or she has seen, and they have a difficult time measuring up to implants, a perfect ass, thin waist, and seeming delight in every form of degradation in which they participate. These women's lives are traumatized, many of them are themselves victims of sexual abuse, dysfunctional families, and they have wounds which they carry, and then the porn industry takes advantage of that for profit. There are countless stories where women talk of getting out of the industry, and how it has affected them emotionally, psychologically, and how they find it difficult to enjoy real intimacy. They also carry physical wounds from the acts of porn, ranging from difficulty from fecal incontinence to diseases like HIV, syphilis, chlamydia, gonorrhea, HPV, herpes, etc.

I've been there, thinking porn was harmless...it's not.
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post #40 of 40 (permalink) Old 12-22-2016, 06:45 PM
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Re: The last attempt

I respect your view of course, especially your attained attitude towards porn even though it is a little one-sided. The other side of the coin of course is that individuals who end up in the porn industry made a career choice and one hopes that the law is there to protect the ones who ended up in the porn industry against their will. They reason why many choose this route is because it is lucrative, not because they have no choice!

Anyway, you never answered my question regarding what it is that porn can provide you with that a real life person can't? And why you decided to blame porn on not finding your wife attractive? If, as you say, most men watch porn (and the studies, including the one I linked to, actually say that ALL men watch porn), shouldn't that mean that most men would feel like you about their wives and no one would have a partner by now? Clearly this isn't the case.

Also regarding the false body image promotion: I agree it is a problem and make many women feel insecure however it is not so much the porn industry that promotes that unrealistic image but the advertisement industry. In every magazine you will find photoshopped women who look nothing like a real life person.
I think you caught yourself some red herrings. I would go back to the basics and examine the root: the real reason for the absence of attraction towards your wife.

My wife lets me take naughty pics of her now and again and I take those over any porn, any day, when i am away from home (and I watched MANY hours of porn throughout my life. It's nothing like real life).
Anyway, i hope you work it out and wish you all the best.
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