Relationships and AddictionWhether it's drugs, alcohol, gambling, sex, pornography, or anything else, addictions can be detrimental to the health of a relationship.
Voivod, I'm sorry, but being in denial about your alcoholism, and trying to talk yourself out of going to the one meeting per week that you attend, all while not working the steps, is not what I call "living the most honorable life." You sound like someone on the verge of a relapse to me.
Hopefully I'm wrong.
i am not so sure that i am an alcoholic. that is not denial chris. i don't think the things i've done in the past (dui, poor behavior, bad decisions, etc.) would happen today. i just don't think i'm an alcoholic any more.
i'm not trying to "talk myself out of" attending meetings. the meetings for me were a form of therapy. when they ceased being therapeutic, my need for the meetings stopped. i don't need any more "therapy."
i used to be addicted to cocaine...and cigarettes. i never did any meetings for either, and frankly never did any 12 step program. i have not returned to either substance. yeah, maybe you could say that i COULD relapse and that would be a shame, but it's been 17 years since cocaine and 12 years since cigarettes. i think the risk is so low that there would be some case i would make for meetings giving me diminishing returns.
and you seem to be saying that i cannot live an honorable life without attending meetings. you know that is not true. why would you make that statement?
originally, i wondered whether i might be "cured" of alcoholism or not. it has become apparent to me through several discussions with my sponsor as well as our exchange here that AA needs "cured" people more than "cured" people need AA.
finally, i may be on the verge of a relapse. but if i make it through this stage, my confidence in my sobriety will be immense.
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separated, honoring wife and family daily, she deserves the best me i can give her.
To the best of my knowledge - I don't think someone can be "diagnosed" with alcoholism 8 mos. after the fact. I'm not sure what kind of test the therapist was referring to, but I don't think it would be very accurate if you gave it to someone who hadn't drank in 8 months.
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i am not so sure that i am an alcoholic. that is not denial chris. i don't think the things i've done in the past (dui, poor behavior, bad decisions, etc.) would happen today. i just don't think i'm an alcoholic any more.
That's exactly what denial is.
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i'm not trying to "talk myself out of" attending meetings. the meetings for me were a form of therapy. when they ceased being therapeutic, my need for the meetings stopped. i don't need any more "therapy."
You might want to change your signature line then.
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i used to be addicted to cocaine...and cigarettes. i never did any meetings for either, and frankly never did any 12 step program. i have not returned to either substance. yeah, maybe you could say that i COULD relapse and that would be a shame, but it's been 17 years since cocaine and 12 years since cigarettes. i think the risk is so low that there would be some case i would make for meetings giving me diminishing returns.
You're really not building a case for yourself here, all signs point to alcoholism / addiction. You ever heard the saying, "if it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck?"
Just because you go from one addiction to the next doesn't mean you don't have a problem.
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and you seem to be saying that i cannot live an honorable life without attending meetings. you know that is not true. why would you make that statement?
I feel like an honorable life means being honest with yourself. I feel like you're just going to AA to apease your wife. As soon as you get her back (maybe before?) you're going to quit. If or when you relapse, whether it be alcohol or something else, things will start getting bad for everyone again.
If I can see this through the limited conversations we've had, don't you think your wife can see it?
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i'm sober, but miserable because my wife cannot see or admit that i am fine.
Voivod, I really hope you're "cured." I think most professionals in the substance abuse field would tell you that it doesn't happen too often though, especially after 8 months. Who knows, maybe you're a rare exception.
That's exactly what denial is. in my case wouldn't denial include some kind of existing symptoms? i don't think there ARE any. refer back to my cocaine "addiction" either a) i was NOT addicted or ;b) i am "cured" or ;c) im in denial. make a case for c. i'll listen.
You might want to change your signature line then. you know me. i work in reverse!!! fixing, you know!
You're really not making a cae for yourself here, all signs point to alcoholism / addiction. You ever heard the saying, "if it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck?" yeah, but it ain't quacking anymore. is the duck dead? can the duck EVER die??
Just because you go from one addiction to the next doesn't mean you don't have a problem. i didn't say i don't have a PROBLEM. i had a problem when i buried myself in 18 hours a day of work. or when i became obsessed with fitness. i can't find a meeting for either of those problems though.
I feel like an honorable life means being honest with yourself. I feel like you're just going to AA to apease your wife. As soon as you get her back (maybe before?) you're going to quit. If or when you relapse, whether it be alcohol or something else, things will start getting bad for everyone again.you may be right. my question still stands. can i be "cured?"
If I can see this through the limited conversations we've had, don't you think your wife can see it?see through what. don't summarily grant yourself sage status based on a conclusion you've unilaterally reached. reminds me of the geometry student proving a right angle by saying "i know what a right angle looks like, and THAT'S a right angle."
Voivod, I really hope you're "cured." I think most professionals in the substance abuse field would tell you that it doesn't happen too often though, especially after 8 months. Who knows, maybe you're a rare exception.
no offense to your profession intended, but psychology field has been willing to admit that it's time to rewrite the past hundred years of that science. maybe i'm anomalous. i just thin you'll never see me sip another sip of alcohol.
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separated, honoring wife and family daily, she deserves the best me i can give her.
V~ my father in law was sober for two years than had a drink, it was over for him and he gave it up and went back to AA. He was near twenty years and figured a beer wouldn't hurt him, well the whole family knew and said nothing. His personality changed, money came up missing etc. Finally a cop pulled him over for DUI. His drinking was destroying the family while he thought he was doing okay. He didn't have the clarity that others did. Now his family is about all he has left.
Even if you are not an alcoholic is it worth risking your wife and family to try to prove a point? I have respect for what you did, what you are doing and how far you have come. Even though I don't respond as much anymore I still read everything you write and silently cheer you on. You have climbed mountians from when you first came here. We have cried with you, and prayed for you.
A sign, a term it is just that. I could feel bad that I am called crippled etc. Some days are better than others. It matters who you are inside now. What you do and the choice you make.
You say that you don't need the alcohol, okay prove everyone wrong and come back in twenty years and brag about being sober, huh?
draconis
Drac, just wanted you to know that we're missin' ya, bud. Hope you're doing okay. Take care.
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--M22
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud..... it always perseveres.
chris h.
i sure would like to see your reponse to post #36...i was in no way trying to disparage you...i'd like to hear your opinions specificall on these items:
>>>"You're really not making a cae for yourself here, all signs point to alcoholism / addiction. You ever heard the saying, "if it walks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, it's probably a duck?" yeah, but it ain't quacking anymore. is the duck dead? can the duck EVER die??<<<"
and this:
>>>"If I can see this through the limited conversations we've had, don't you think your wife can see it?see through what. don't summarily grant yourself sage status based on a conclusion you've unilaterally reached. reminds me of the geometry student proving a right angle by saying "i know what a right angle looks like, and THAT'S a right angle."<<<
and this:
>>>"in my case wouldn't denial include some kind of existing symptoms? i don't think there ARE any. refer back to my cocaine "addiction" either a) i was NOT addicted or ;b) i am "cured" or ;c) im in denial. make a case for c. i'll listen."<<<
i just want your opinion based on my responses...please don't avoid the questions because you might be taking it as a personal attack, because it's not...
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separated, honoring wife and family daily, she deserves the best me i can give her.
Voivod~ I think you are looking at this all wrong. Does it matter more that you are aor are not an alcoholic as to what a single drink would do to your marriage?
Voivod~ I think you are looking at this all wrong. Does it matter more that you are aor are not an alcoholic as to what a single drink would do to your marriage?
draconis
i get that, but to have to sit there and say "hi i'm chris and i'm an alcoholic" around all these other relapse queens make me feel hypocritical...i'm NOT going for me... i figured it out, i'm going for a result...i've achieved that result, it runs counter to the AA mantra, which is step one...
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separated, honoring wife and family daily, she deserves the best me i can give her.
V~ you haven't gotten that result, which is to heal the harm to your marriage. How will she feel if you back out? What else might you step away from?
Not everyone is a strong as you, but the point is even after being told not to have that beer (after the stroke) YOU DID, because YOU didn't think it was an issue. Well she did, and does still. What could drinking do to your health? Want another stroke, or to scare the heck out of your family?
Sometimes you suck it up and humble yourself. Sometimes you need that balance in your life.
The greatest lesson about AA you are still missing, I can tell.
V~ you haven't gotten that result, which is to heal the harm to your marriage. How will she feel if you back out? What else might you step away from?
Not everyone is a strong as you, but the point is even after being told not to have that beer (after the stroke) YOU DID, because YOU didn't think it was an issue. Well she did, and does still. What could drinking do to your health? Want another stroke, or to scare the heck out of your family?
Sometimes you suck it up and humble yourself. Sometimes you need that balance in your life.
The greatest lesson about AA you are still missing, I can tell.
draconis
okay...i'll bite...what is the greatest lesson? because i don't think i'm stupid...yet i'm missing it...
"hello, i'm chris, and some people think i'm an alcoholic...and i don't want to mock anyone here, but if i let you in on my little secret, the lid would come off this joint."
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separated, honoring wife and family daily, she deserves the best me i can give her.
Humility and self exploration. When a person humbles themselves to God or themselves they search for other ways to make themselves better people. I have told you time and again that I saw real growth in you. Maybe because you felt humbled by just being here, or you had to admit to the darkness that lies in all of us. But through your exploration you found things aout yourself and changed through the process. I felt humbled knowing you and all you had to do to win back Beth. All you did along the way and the great frustration you felt but did it anyways.
My father in law was a truck driver something I didn't mention in the above story. Just being away from AA, did him in. Maybe that will not happen to you, maybe it will. But the fact is alcohol affected your health, and it affected your marriage. Why chance it?
In the end all choices are yours alone. I'll give you suggestions of what I might do. In the past you have overcome other addictions which is great but it shows something else much deeper and darker. You have an addictive personality.
It isn't to say that you are a bad person, in fact I believe that overcoming the challenges in our lives define us.
Is Beth and your kids worth it? Is your pride really worth what you can lose?
The fact that you are questioning if you are an alcoholic makes me worried for you. I pray for your health and happiness nightly. I have followed every post from the beginning, and even cried happiness for you a few times.
I have seen the ill effects of alcoholism on a family. But the truth is in how people around you view it. Why fight the label? WHy fight with the idea of going to AA?
Has AA shown you weakness in others, the fragile nature of humanity? Have you had to question yourself? I go atleast once a year with my father in law. I feel humbled being there, I question what I can do better in my life, and for my family. I look at some people there and say I never want to need to be there, or be in a situation that it might effect my life. I don't want to have to fix a problem I can just avoid entirely.
Maybe it is time to look deeper into why this label bothers you, or the people that are weaker than you bothers you. Maybe all your soul searching isn't done yet or you have made a choice and are trying to figure it out. WHy did you bring up the topic to begin with?
You know the first councilor didn't work for you and Beth so you found someone other than Rice. Why can't you do that here?
I've stated my opinion, and it seems like we disagree. That's ok. We don't have to agree on everything. There's no sense in going back and forth about semantics.
Re: alcoholic???
the title of the thread...joke (?)
