Relationships and AddictionWhether it's drugs, alcohol, gambling, sex, pornography, or anything else, addictions can be detrimental to the health of a relationship.
Let me start out by saying that I love my wife with all my heart and our marriage is not in trouble. There is an issue though that hasn't gone away which brings me to where I need unbiased advice.
My wife and I are 26 yo and have been married for about 3 years. My own use of alcohol has become a hot topic. I am a social drinker. I drink about 1-2 times a month but when I do, I usually have 3 or 4 drinks. An open bar wedding, a baseball game, or maybe at a restaurant catching up with old friends. My wife sees this as alcoholic tendencies and it scares her to death. Naturally, I think i'm innocent and don't have a problem (famous last words). My wife watches me intently and always knows exactly how many I've had when we are in a public setting. It has gotten to the point where she is asking me to give up drinking all together and why I must chose alcohol over her. Half of me doesn't want to stop drinking because i enjoy it and the other half of me wants to dig in my heals because I feel like she is too controlling. In the back of my mind I wonder if I am just turning a blind eye to my own actions. I always compare myself to our peers and nearly all my friends drink more and more often than I do but that doesn't change the fact that I want to do the right thing. There have been 2 instances in the past 3 years where I have had too much to drink and I asked her to drive home for safety and because I wasn't feeling well. I am fairly big guy (6'2, 220lbs) and sometimes I wonder if she expects me to feel the same effects as she would after 3 glasses of wine.
I try absolutely as hard as I can to communicate with her about it but it always comes back to the "if you loved me you would just give it up" attitude. Sometimes I feel like I should just give in and be a "non-drinker". It's not that big of a deal, and yet I still have stubbornness and a sense of entitlement thinking that "it's not that bad".
So here I am asking for unbiased advice. Is it possible that I have a dependency of sorts on alcohol?? Would the right thing to do here be to just give it up or find some middle ground? I am not trying to get people to take a side and say who is being unreasonable but I wanted to get a third party perspective.
Hi. Well, you are getting the opinion of an alcoholic... I am recoverED. There is a difference between being in recovery and being recoverED. I am STILL an alcoholic but as the Big Big makes clear to me (as is the experience of the first 100) If I do take the steps in the exact way as the BB tells me, I will become God conscious and I will be recovered from a 'hopeless state of mind and body' It does not mean that I am no longer alcoholic. It means that I have the spiritual and mental defense to protect me from the fight because I live life without chaos. I no longer have to drink and I am not mad about it. And I no longer fight it because I no longer THINK about it. And if the time comes when my 'alcoholic thinking' tries to convince me that ONE will be ok, then I am not spiritually fit and I have the principals of the program to help me find what is wrong inside of me. So, that having been said, you may have figured out that you are getting this answer from a Big Book Thumper.
I, in reading your post, can only wonder if your wife grew up in an alcoholic environment and as a result is filled with fear. A trait that is evident in 100% of alanons and AAs is CONTROL ISSUES. But when people are acting controlling they refuse to see it as controlling since they are only doing it out of love. As far as she is concerned, I suggest Alanon meetings and that she get a sponsor (a person with a working knowledge of the steps because they have taken them and have begun to live in the solution - hence they have become God conscious) and begin the process of ego deflation and acceptance of personal responsibility. It is amazing how great life is for these members of alanon who actually become active members who do more than sit in a seat and complain.
As for YOU?? A few drinks here or there does not hurt anyone. It is hurting HER because she is filled with fear based on HER experience. Are you an alcoholic? I could NEVER pronounce you one. Even if you crawled into an AA meeting, shaking and sweating, after a 10 day binge - NO recovered AA will call you one. One might say, "You sound like you MIGHT have a problem with alcohol but ONLY you know if you are an alcoholic or not!"
If she was not trying to control you, would you be wondering at all if you have a problem?
Has drinking ever interfered with a job (go in late, hung over, don't go in, leave early, etc...)?
Have you ever had a legal problem due to alcohol?
Has ANYONE ELSE ever mentioned your drinking?
Are you IRRITABLE if you want to have a drink and she tells you not to? (an alcoholic is restless, irritable and discontent when they want/need a drink)
An alcoholic does not ever need to drink much, drink often or drink for long before they prove they are alcoholic. Some go YEARS between periods of drinking, and don't ever fight the drink during those years. BUT they will likely be unhappy to some degree in life - never quite knowing why... and they may have relationship troubles that they blame on the spouse because we alkies have a different way of looking at things! OH BOY!! We are masters of manipulations!
The bottom line is that alcoholism is a DIS-EASE in the MIND... we alkies think differently. We never quite think we fit in unless we are drinking. We are always on the outside, looking in. We always look for the world to fulfill us. The girls that make men feel good, the men women seek to feel loved. The nice home or car, the great job and vacations, and still NOTHING fills the hole in the soul... BUT, alcohol changes the way an alcoholic feels and the feeling is elusive, something we chase and never get again. Instead, life becomes more unmanageable and we become blind to how we are causing it!!
If you are suffering any of these things, please go to an OPEN meeting of AA. I suggest some OPEN (meaning you don't have to be an Alcoholic to attend) speaker meetings. Open discussion meetings. NOT Big Book or STEP meetings. These are not what you need yet, if at all. AND NO CLOSED MEETINGS. Those are ONLY for alcoholics or those who want to stop drinking.
You might be one, you might not be one. But I doubt you would ever recognize the problem if it is not causing life trouble.
If you believe you are an alcoholic, and you want to stop the spiral before it tears apart your life, take the program seriously. The 12 step SPIRITUAL program is designed to do ONE thing... produce a change in thinking and affecting a spiritual awakening... hence, taking the steps enables one to become God conscious, and OMG!! What a life one can have when they are NO LONGER TRYING TO CONTROL EVERYTHING!!
Honestly by the description of your drinking, I now feel like I might be an alcoholic. I have a drink whenever I feel like it, or two just relaxing multiple times a week lol. (I say this as I'm drinking a delish white russian too, oh my! )
I think Laureen's on the right track, maybe your wife is overly worried due to previous experiences.
I get that way about pot smokers. I've had so many bad experiences with pot smokers and the effects of over usage that I am completely uncomfortable with it, to where I can't really even be around it even though I support decriminalization of it.
I don't know in what universe you could be considered an alcoholic, with drinking one or two times a month, with 3 or 4 drinks. So assuming you're telling the truth, I'd say your wife has the issues. Perhaps she has had issues with other people's alcohol abuse in the past. If so, maybe the two of you can arrive at a mutually acceptable understanding.
Alcohol hasn't affected any other aspect of my life that I can identify. I have never been in legal trouble, never missed work, never made a scene, etc. I have have achieved all of my educational and professional goals. For me, it's an afterthought but for her it's a big deal.
I think she focuses on the fact that I "can't" have just 1 when I drink. "Can't" and "Don't want to" are related terms when talking about addictions but in a sense, she's got a point. If i'm completely honest, If I were in a situation where I knew I didn't have time for a few drinks, I would probably just opt for water. In other words, just 1 is kind of a waste (of money). I wouldn't define this as a lack of self control so much as a decision.
That sounds so much worse when written out than I expected...
My goal is to be a great husband, great father, etc. but it's hard for me to tell in this situation what the right thing to do is. On one hand, what possible good can alcohol bring that I would want to insist on having it in my life? On the other hand why do I have to squash out things in life that I enjoy?
It sounds to me like you are really just a normal drinker. But again, I cannot say.
I wonder if your wife would attend some OPEN speaker meetings? Oh wow! That would be an eye opener! The format of most speaker meetings is that a speaker shares for about 45 minutes his/her Experience, strength and hope (what it was like, what happened and what it is like now). At the very least, it is a bit entertaining and you will both meet some of the happiest people you have ever met in your life (er... if you are at meetings in a healthy group - some groups are not overwhelmingly joyous, while others are filled with people working the steps in the BB with a sponsor and those groups are amazing)
I suggest you stay away from NA. There is no reason to be there since her issue is not with narcotics. AA groups usually have more people using lady appropriate language and a light, welcoming environment.
I think that you need to take up with your wife *why* it bothers her.
all the extra thinking and input on this isn't going to help until you know what she's thinking or seeing that makes her react the way she does. I'm going to bet that she knows why she has that reaction.
It's not really a matter of breaking down your 12 pack a month maybe. Even so much as whether you'll have only one or opt not to, that's really personal preference.
I think this comes down to you and your wife working out something that make you both comfortable and coming to an understanding between the two of you, not debating over if you are an alcoholic or not.
It's a no win situation. If you fight for your right to drink, then you are an alcoholic. If you just give in, then you are allowing your wife to control you. That is the situation I am in. My wife thought I drank too much which at some degree I agree with. I would have a couple rum and cokes most nights after work to relax. After an evening where I went a little overboard and saw that she was genuinely concerned, I dropped the hard alcohol and have limited my drinking to a glass of wine with dinner.
She still wants me to cut that out and stop entirely but why should I? I enjoy it and don't get intoxicated. It has been over three weeks since I stopped the hard stuff and I feel great. It is a matter of control and I don't appreciate it and neither should you.
I think my wife has a FB addiction and when I voice my concern about that, I'm a controlling a$$hole. How is it different?
It's a no win situation. If you fight for your right to drink, then you are an alcoholic. If you just give in, then you are allowing your wife to control you. That is the situation I am in. My wife thought I drank too much which at some degree I agree with. I would have a couple rum and cokes most nights after work to relax. After an evening where I went a little overboard and saw that she was genuinely concerned, I dropped the hard alcohol and have limited my drinking to a glass of wine with dinner.
She still wants me to cut that out and stop entirely but why should I? I enjoy it and don't get intoxicated. It has been over three weeks since I stopped the hard stuff and I feel great. It is a matter of control and I don't appreciate it and neither should you.
I think my wife has a FB addiction and when I voice my concern about that, I'm a controlling a$$hole. How is it different?
I am not sure if I am doing this right... I tried to include quote in my reply, so hopefully this is coming off right!
If you 'fight for your right to drink, you are an alcoholic'... Well... Coming from an alcoholic, I can only say that MY experience was that I did fight for my right to drink, long before there were obvious signs and long before I knew I had a problem. Other PEOPLE had an issue with it but I was not doing anything that caused harm to anyone in my life... YET!! Any NORMAL drinker would typically say, "Well, if it bothers you than I won't drink" ON THE OTHER HAND, having a drink or two is NO BIG DEAL and why should you be told you cannot drink? If drinking or not drinking becomes a 'control issue' than it might be a DEVELOPING problem. One can be a 'potential alcoholic' and choose to do something about it before it becomes a life problem. But why would anyone choose to do something BEFORE it becomes a problem?? Right? You cannot concede to yourself there is a problem if the signs are not yet evident to yourself!!
My husband went to alanon when I began going to AA, and I had actually began to take the steps. His alanon sponsor said to him several times, "Peter, if you are NOT an alcoholic yourself, then why DO you drink if your wife is in recovery?" My husband replied, I don't drink the way she drinks and I have no problem with alcohol." His sponsor would say, "If you have issue enough with alcohol, that you are irritable when you want one and have to leave the house just to go have one then maybe you have a problem with it too. If alcohol is not important to you, why not just NOT drink?"
I NEVER asked my husband to stop drinking BTW. He continued to drink for the first 2 years of my AA recovery. Something miraculous happened. Something clicked in my husband.
He used to 'plan his drinking'. He would work it out so he could be with his friend on a Saturday night and have a fire. He looked forward to it all week long. His 'reason' for going over there was to 'sit around the fire'. But, when he began to look at his drinking seriously and he got honest to a degree he never had been. His REAL reason for going to sit around the fire was to 'have a couple of drinks'... And it occurred to him, if I am planning my drinking, I might have a problem.
Never had I said he had to stop. Never had I suggested he is alcoholic. He has ALWAYS gone to speaker meetings with me (which is a great way to identify with alcoholics... we are of varying degrees). I never asked him to come to them either, he just did in the beginning to be supportive and he heard things that kept bringing him back. I picked up my 2 year chip in August, 2011. The next evening, while sitting on my porch having a cigarette before a CLOSED meeting (which means he cannot come since it is only for alcoholics) He looked at me and with tears in his eyes (HOPE) he said, "You are a peaceful person today. You have changed. You are never angry, irritable, overwhelmed... You are different and I WANT WHAT YOU HAVE." My response was, "You know where to get it." So, he asked if he could come with me to the meeting and I said, "It is closed." He said, "I know." and he came with me and admitted he is an alcoholic. He is 7 months sober today.
Here is the thing... If alcohol is IMPORTANT to you, you MIGHT be developing a problem, even if it is not yet apparent in your life. BUT, ONLY YOU can decide that.
A spouse cannot EVER make you decide you are alcoholic, because the alcoholic will NEVER fully concede to his/her innermost self that they are alcoholic until there are signs of trouble.
You are experiencing a sign. FAMILY DISCORD because you drink daily. If the original poster has been 100% honest in his assessment of his drinking and posted truthfully - the amount and rarity of the drinking, it is likely not a problem with him. It sounds like the wife is having a problem. But I am going on faith that there has been 100% disclosure in the post.
BUT, I do read CLASSIC warning signs in the post I am responding to currently. A 'couple of rum and cokes' every evening after work. Now, no more 'hard stuff' but still drinking every evening after work.
DING, DING, DING... A freight train MIGHT be heading your way. If alcohol consumption is daily, you may be feeding your beast. If your answer to shutting your wife up is to 'change brand'... you may want to consider attending a few meetings. See what you think.
ONLY YOU can ever determine weather or not you are alcoholic. It is a sly beast because when there is yet time, alcoholics will never see the signs because the beast is sneaky and alcoholics, by EVERY form of SELF-DECEPTION will consider themselves exceptions... Therefore, not alcoholic.
You can go online and read from the Big Book of AA, "The Doctors Opinion" and also, "More about Alcoholism." If you are intrigued, You might want to read, "There is a solution".... And I suggest, once again going to a few OPEN speaker meetings. Call your local 800 number for AA and they can send you book of meetings or go online to AA and find local meetings. You CAN'T attend Closed meetings unless you are there as an alcoholic. So, you look for these symbols when you seek out a meeting - O (open) S (speaker) M (mens) D (discussion). You can go to any one of these as long as there is an O meaning everyone is welcome. Stay away from BB (Big Book) or S (step) meetings unless you decide you have a problem and you want the solution!! Speaker meetings will help you a lot because if you go several of them (8 or 10) you MIGHT hear something that makes you pause... You can bring your wife too as she might hear enough to say, "I NEED TO GET OFF HIS BACK!!"
Hey Laureen,
The part that really grabs me about what you said is your description of your husbands planning of his outings and drinks. If I'm totally honest, I do the same thing. I will look forward to an event (brother's birthday margaritas for example) because of the anticipation of the drinks and company. I like to think that it doesn't revolve around the drinks for me but truth be told, I would be fairly disappointed to have to abstain in a setting like that where others are enjoying.
I did leave out the fact that my wife thinks her father drinks too much too. I obviously don't have much of a past with her father but I have absolutely never seen him abuse alcohol. When at a party, he may have 4 beers over the course of the evening and my wife cries on our way home. The story that I got was that over a decade ago, her parents went through a rough patch in their marriage (unrelated to alcohol) but in the heat of the fights he sometimes would go have drinks after work and come home late smelling like alcohol. He was never violent, never a yeller, just sort of depressed that his marriage felt hopeless. I am not trying to defend the guy but perhaps my wife's perception of things is a bit skewed when she had her angry mother always putting him down. They are still "together" in the sense that they are married and living together but are more like roommates now.
Anyway, back to the point. I didn't really want to mention her past because I didn't want to point at her as the one with issues right off the bat. I wanted to take an honest-to-god look at myself (with the help of you guys) and figure out why i'm hanging onto this when it would solve everything if I just let it go...
I would rather come to peace with it myself than have a knock down drag out with the wife and give it up out of anger. I don't want to harbor resentment over it but it's tough for me when I feel like my rights are being encroached.
I appreciate all the food for thought. I have an "appointment" to sit down with my wife tonight and talk this through.
If you 'fight for your right to drink, you are an alcoholic'... Well...
What bothers me about this statement is that the logic in your mind (I assume) can only be applied to alcohol.
If I fight for my right to be sexual with my wife, am I a sex addict?
If I fight for my right to have a FB account, am I a FB addict?
etc......
I understand the compulsion for those exposed to alcoholism to see it anytime someone shows any type of discernable pattern or defends their consumption in any way but for alot of people this scrutiny is unfair.
My wifes family are heavy drinkers and get drunk at every social event (really drunk) so I don't drink socially when we are out. I have water.
I have gone from a couple of rum and cokes to A glass of wine with dinner and only at home. Under what definition is alcohol a problem?
So fine, I quite the glass of wine simply because my wife asks me to. Where does it stop? If she wants me to quite sex, do I do that? How about the FB? How about anything my wife arbitrarily decides she would no longer like me to do? Is that healthy?
Hey Laureen,
The part that really grabs me about what you said is your description of your husbands planning of his outings and drinks. If I'm totally honest, I do the same thing. I will look forward to an event (brother's birthday margaritas for example) because of the anticipation of the drinks and company. I like to think that it doesn't revolve around the drinks for me but truth be told, I would be fairly disappointed to have to abstain in a setting like that where others are enjoying.
I did leave out the fact that my wife thinks her father drinks too much too. I obviously don't have much of a past with her father but I have absolutely never seen him abuse alcohol. When at a party, he may have 4 beers over the course of the evening and my wife cries on our way home. The story that I got was that over a decade ago, her parents went through a rough patch in their marriage (unrelated to alcohol) but in the heat of the fights he sometimes would go have drinks after work and come home late smelling like alcohol. He was never violent, never a yeller, just sort of depressed that his marriage felt hopeless. I am not trying to defend the guy but perhaps my wife's perception of things is a bit skewed when she had her angry mother always putting him down. They are still "together" in the sense that they are married and living together but are more like roommates now.
Anyway, back to the point. I didn't really want to mention her past because I didn't want to point at her as the one with issues right off the bat. I wanted to take an honest-to-god look at myself (with the help of you guys) and figure out why i'm hanging onto this when it would solve everything if I just let it go...
I would rather come to peace with it myself than have a knock down drag out with the wife and give it up out of anger. I don't want to harbor resentment over it but it's tough for me when I feel like my rights are being encroached.
I appreciate all the food for thought. I have an "appointment" to sit down with my wife tonight and talk this through.
Sounds to me like you are being more honest with yourself... Good for you. Remember that not every drinker is alcoholic but since you are being honest enough to get a bit deeper and say that the real reason you enjoy gatherings is to have those drinks.... ???? You really might want to look at this - with the help of a healthy group of AA folk. Your wife may well need the help of alanon.
As far as her dad? Well... if they had marital problems and he went out drinking after a debacle, then he may have been creating the debacle so that he had an excuse to drink!! "If you did not make it hard to be home, I would not drink!!! It is YOUR FAULT!!!" That is what the restless, irritable and discontent can do... AAs learn on our journey that most problems, most chaos - if not caused directly by our drinking, was caused directly because we are restless, irritable and discontent. We alkies are (this is an analogy from the BB of AA) ..... Like a tornado that rips a path of destruction through others lives... When the tornado stops, we emerge from the cellar and look around and say "Look, the wind stopped blowing." We don't even see the debris left behind, so it never gets picked up... Resentments build and build... We create chaos and leave behind wreckage. It is NOT the alcohol that does it. It is the way we perceive the world and the people in it. It is the way we 'manipulate everyone around us to suit us'. "If you only listened to me, if you only did it MY way, we would not have this disagreement. So, I am going out for a drink! There, That will show you!"
Later, it is "If you would get off my back, I would come home after work. If you did what I would tell you, I would not yell at you! If you washed the clothes or loaded the dishwasher or had sex more frequently, or spent less on groceries, or got your hair done, or did not do your hair that way, or lost weight, or did not hang our with your friends, or told your mother to piss-off, I would not drink!!" "If you would teach those kids to respect me, I would have a good relationship with them! It is YOUR fault they don't want to be around me! You must TELL them not to trust me! I am leaving!" Of course, all of these things, the kids hear and form their own opinions and thoughts. We create our troubles and everyone else is to blame.
Even when an alcoholic is not drinking for years, the behavior continues. Maybe not every day and not as severe but indeed, the one who is actually alcoholic (thinking about or not thinking about drinking) behaves like this, once in a while, at the very least. Then one day, they are on a plane or out to dinner - they make the 'choice' to have ONE drink and they may only have ONE but that ONE does something so very special. The coil in the gut releases. There is the feeling of calm and warm and peace... BINGO!! That person may still not have another for years or they might have several and stop. And some, (ME - after 3 years - continue drinking..... I was sober for 3 years without doing the spiritual work and one day, out of the blue, I drank one drink and within a week, I got drunk and stayed that way for 4 years. I destroyed everything and everyone in my life. THEN I KNEW!!!) It is not HOW MUCH, HOW OFTEN, HOW LONG. It is what it does for you... are you treating the way you think and feel, each time you do drink.
From what you tell me about her parents?? The marriage has suffered for a reason. I suspect it was this when her dad drank while she grew up.... RecoverED alcoholics have the absolute best marriages. (the ones that survive) Mine is a great example. I knew my husband was alcoholic long before I drank and I drank in order to tolerate him... Really, I drank to perpetuate a delusion. I could pretend that the problems did not exist... Little did I know that I was alcoholic in the mind and drinking unleashed the beast that was quietly growling in wait. I stopped drinking for 3 years to take the heat off and I thought things were good. I did not think about drinking. We got along fairly decently but I thought it was because HE had stopped (which he did. I had only stopped for HIM back then). My beast waited patiently in the parking lot, doing push-ups, getting stronger while it waited for me to open the door... It was strong when I did... When I came into AA, I stopped blaming him (though I hated him to my very core) I worked on me and I am different today. I accept personal responsibility. He came in on his own and he is changing. I don't love him today but we are in a good marriage, that is getting better. Sounds like your in-laws were/are probably dealing with alcoholism. Some of us end up under bridges carrying paper bags. Some of us preform brain surgery and fly planes and live in fabulous homes in affluent neighborhoods and have 4 - 80,000.00 cars and take vacations. Some of us are 12 years old and some of us are 92. Some of us are soccer moms and many of us APPEAR happy. But ALL of have skewed views and warped thinking. Some of us APPEAR to have it all and that is really because we are empty inside, whistling in the dark to convince ourselves it is ok. We show the world that our outsides are good so we feel better inside.
Normal drinkers can take it or leave it and do not suffer from restless, irritable and discontent.
When you make your appointment with your wife, I suggest she be encouraged (you cannot tell her she MUST) to go to alanon and that you will support her in that by going to AA. Make a commitment to each go to several meetings and spend time with others in your respective fellowships. Have coffee with them. Get phone numbers and call people. Get to know them outside of meetings and something neat will happen.. If it is where you belong, very soon you will feel like you are home!
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