Relationships and AddictionWhether it's drugs, alcohol, gambling, sex, pornography, or anything else, addictions can be detrimental to the health of a relationship.
I'm just curious, if you watched a mainstream movie that was nc17 and had nudity and sex in it, would she consider that cheating? Posted via Mobile Device
It always floors me, the number of women who have such attitudes toward porn. I always wonder if they wear a sheet with a hole in it to bed when they want to get pregnant, and are completely chaste the rest of the time.
I really hope this guy comes back. I understand that we all have differing ideas about what's acceptable in a marriage and what's not, but this truly seems unjust to me.
I really hope this guy comes back. I understand that we all have differing ideas about what's acceptable in a marriage and what's not, but this truly seems unjust to me.
Thanks for replying, everyone. Some responses in return.
Speed - actually my original post was completely truthful, and is a full account of all the details that I think are relevant. My situation may seem a little "out there," perhaps, but it's the situation I'm in. I don't have much incentive to make up a story here.
ocotillo - No, wasn't purposefully saving them. Nor was I taking the steps you might imagine a "sneaky guy" would take to delete traces of my porn viewing. Not too "smart" I guess? This may sound crazy at some level, but there is an element of relief in being caught. I see now how hurtful and damaging my behavior was, and boy I sure would hate to be still doing it. Too bad it had to cause my wife such anguish, just for me to get that clarity.
Maricha75 - your words could be construed as critical, but they are nonetheless dead on. It is absolutely accurate that the real hurt, the real sense of betrayal, flows from the fact that I was hiding what I was doing. I think that's where the equivalence with "cheating" came from, in her mind. I too think that equating what I did with real cheating is to minimize the latter, as lamaga said. But her sense of betrayal is real. Your post helped me get some clarity on this. It is a little off-base for me to argue that "what I did wasn't really all that bad," when for my wife, the real issue is that I hid something I knew she would not like. The fact that the behavior has something to do with sex certainly sharpens the sting, but the central issue is the concealment. That's an important notion to ponder and act on. In marriage, trust is, if not everything, then at least extremely important.
It always floors me, the number of women who have such attitudes toward porn. I always wonder if they wear a sheet with a hole in it to bed when they want to get pregnant, and are completely chaste the rest of the time.
DG,
This is a fascinating read. First of all - props to you for being completely transparent in your post. I do think you have to ask yourself one very serious question: Do you really want to save your marriage?
Not asking that to be a smart aleck. Asking it because the thing that has best worked for you up until now, is about to absolutely blow up your marriage. And that 'thing' is appeasement. Your W has a reservoir of hostility - fairly obvious what the source is and that is sad.
But you have enabled a pattern that is not very good in the long haul and that is the loss of proportionality.
One quick example from 20 plus years ago. W and I were not married - she got pregnant by accident - it was equally our fault. The withdrawal method is not exactly the most reliable means of birth control. She was very anxious, embarrassed, etc. about the pregnancy as she comes from a large, devout catholic family. Shortly after I moved in I realized that her reactions in conflict were out of whack with what is reasonable. This peaked when she exploded over me handing her a few tissues instead of one.
I told her we were done. She was being emotionally abusive, it was rapidly escalating and I deserved better. I was calm and about to pack. She freaked, apologized for being a total bltch and begged forgiveness.
Back to you: Every time you apologize or ask forgiveness or radiate shame around her you AMPLIFY her belief that what you did was off the charts awful. It makes her MORE angry.
Stop apologizing. Stop asking forgiveness. Be polite and brief in your interactions. IF she brings this up or alludes to it in any way simply respond like this: We both brought baggage to the marriage. I have accommodated yours without reservation for 12 years. I understand you - accept you and love you. You on the other hand are never more than one step from throwing me in the "bucket of the enemy" which is men/maleness. It is not acceptable and after 12 years of being a good guy I deserve better.
And then no matter what she says - shut up. Do not respond. Let her talk and say what she wants. As long as she stays within the bounds of rational and respectful. If she doesn't - hold your hand up and tell her - we can continue when you can treat me with respect. And then go on about your life until she decides whether 12 years of good is outweighed by this event.
The more you appease her - the more she will think that even YOU believe this is a terminal offence...
Quote:
Originally Posted by devoted_guy
This focused topic area seems to be the one where porn and marriage is discussed, and although my behavior is far from an "addiction," here goes. . . .
We've been married 12 very happy years, and have three beautiful children together. All is well in our marriage and our lives. I am (I believe) a devoted family man and a loyal and loving husband. Never had an affair, never wanted to, never would dream of it. She too is infinitely loyal and devoted to our family, and gives of herself in an extremely unselfish way. We share in all the work of running a household and raising our children. We also share no small amount of joy, both as a couple and as a family of five. I feel compelled to add (just for background) that religion plays no role whatever in our lives (if we differ there, please don't judge; I promise not to judge you in return.)
I am ashamed of it, but I admit to having viewed free porn on-line occasionally (perhaps once a week during some periods; not at all for long stretches). Doing so has never made me feel good about myself; quite the opposite in fact. For me it is not a craving, or even particularly enjoyable. I did it in an idle, mindless way. Makes it all the more puzzling that I did it at all!
Anyway, it finally happened - my wife discovered some images on the computer. She angrily confronted me, and I did not deny it or try to minimize it. All this happened about a week ago, and since then I feel as though I have been desperately fighting to preserve some - any - vestiges of my married life and family life. I have been as contrite as a person can possibly be. I apologized profusely, agreeing that it is disgusting and shameful behavior, not to mention hurtful to her. I swore to never ever do it ever again. That is a promise that will never be broken, ever.
We have spoken many times about this over the last several days. Mostly it's her levelling accusations at me: this is the same as cheating; how can I ever believe a word you say; how could you hurt me like this; my self-respect can't stay intact if I remain married to you; you are no better than the "average guy" but I didn't think I married an average guy; you've made your choice and you don't seem to want me; this is always the way it starts - then there's affairs and divorce (here she lists others - friends and also public figures - who in her mind serve as examples of the "inevitable" downward spiral from porn viewing to infidelity to divorce). For my part, I bear these words as best I can, I must admit usually in tears, as they hurt a great, great deal. We have always imagined our marriage as an especially strong one, our family unit as unshakably whole. Never before in our marriage has the prospect of divorce been raised as a real possibility, even in anger. But, on this occasion, I am sorry to say that she has indicated that she does not want to remain married to me. Cuts deeper than any knife.
Through these conversations, I repeatedly acknowledge her anger and hurt, and I say (and believe) that she has a right to feel the way she does. I also apologize (again and again), and promise to never do it again. These utterances she dismisses as the words of a person who simply cannot be trusted.
If you've read this far, perhaps you will indulge a little more background here. My wife is a wonderful woman, I love her like life itself, I am completely devoted to her, and I tell her these things all the time (she now says that I have wiped away any such thing that I've ever said to her). She is extremely generous with her time and herself, and her first priority is always me and our family. She can be very understanding and charitable too. But. . . there is one "demon" that took me a long time to understand, and which may help explain her powerful reaction. I will not call her a "man hater" - that's too strong a term - but she does have a strong aversion to much of what might be considered "characteristically male" behavior - bravado, borish behavior particularly toward women, emotional cluelessness, intimidation, etc. I hasten to add that she has these attitudes for very good and understandable reasons (which I won't go into here, but which have nothing to do with me). The way these attitudes play out between us is that any hurt or upset on her part, even if fairly modest in scale, gets transformed into generous helpings of hostility aimed at me. That might be a bit of an understatement. It has been hard on me, from time to time; I consider authentic hostility to be something of a "love spoiler." But I know where it comes from, and I accept and appreciate her for all the many wonderful things she is.
Anyway, it seems that, in her mind, I have offended in the absolute worst way possible, in that most "characteristically male" of ways - by viewing porn. By doing so I have transformed myself from the man that she loves (or loved), the man she "thought was different," into just another clumsy, rude jerk who is ruled by his penis. (She has basically said this.)
I tried to explain that, in the male brain, which is very different in this respect than the female brain, female body parts are just things that we have an urge to look at. It isn't rational thinking; it is just a base urge. I also tried to explain that me looking at porn has zero emotional content: it is nothing but that base urge. For example, I would never in a million years want to see or touch one of the girls in the images, in real life. I quickly add, when explaining these things, that this is not to minimize or dismiss her hurt, which is real, and which I caused with my thoughtlessness. That it hurts her the way it does is reason enough, obviously, for me to swear to never go near another porn image again (and stick to that promise).
There is no "last straw" aspect to my story; no dark broader context that bears on her reaction to my transgression. We were very happy, blissfully so I would say, with no unresolved points of friction. Sexually, we have (had now) a great relationship. In terms of frequency (up until "the discovery" anyway), maybe 3, sometimes even 4 or 5 times a week. How many married couples of 12 years do that, and with 3 young children? And, this is the honest truth (but now she doesn't believe me): to me, she is the most beautiful woman in the entire world. No one even comes close. When we make love, all I think about is her. I don't play any "highlight reel" in my head, or imagine being with someone else. All my "highlight reels" star her and only her.
Friends, I screwed up, big time. I admit that. My error was hugely stupid, thoughtless, foolish. I have asked and asked for forgiveness, but it doesn't appear that I am going to get it. I am terribly scared. I love her so very much. I want my children to grow up in a "whole" family. I have even suggested to her that maybe we could just be housemates; I would be a good and considerate one, and I would respect her privacy (and I would remain a faithful husband, though an "unconventional" one I guess). All this only seems to make things worse. I would surely appreciate frank (but hopefully gentle) thoughts or words of advice. Thank you for reading.
I really hope this guy comes back. I understand that we all have differing ideas about what's acceptable in a marriage and what's not, but this truly seems unjust to me.
Vagina Politics at it's best.
She will just keep going on and on.
No need for him to be " deeply ashamed " or anything like that. If she feel that porn is offensive to her,then ok,apologize and move on.
i am sure that there has been times she did stuff that was offensive to him........
Many years ago my wife tried something like that on me,she didn't get too far though.
He had better start " snooping around."
Check her mobile phone records etc.
Responding to "It could be that "guy thing" (ftr, I don't buy into that because not all men view it, not all men enjoy it)"
In my opinion, it is only natural to want to look at these things. It is the way we men are wired. If a man doesn't look, there can only be a few reasons:
1) He was raised thinking it is dirty and is afraid he'll get caught
2) He is lying
3) He is gay
Responding to "It could be that "guy thing" (ftr, I don't buy into that because not all men view it, not all men enjoy it)"
In my opinion, it is only natural to want to look at these things. It is the way we men are wired. If a man doesn't look, there can only be a few reasons:
1) He was raised thinking it is dirty and is afraid he'll get caught
2) He is lying
3) He is gay
1. He viewed it when he was younger, before we ever met, and was disgusted by it... it was something his dad had readily available and his mom was fine with it being viewed. She just didn't care for it, herself.
2. He's not lying. He doesn't view it, period. Verified.
3. So...you believe my husband is gay? While I know that has happened in marriages, I can certainly attest to the fact that my husband is most definitely attracted to me, his wife. He has never given any indication that he does NOT find other women attractive. His former EA partner is an indication of that.
There ARE NORMAL (as in not seeing things as dirty from a religious viewpoint) straight men out there who do not care for porn. It's just a fact. They may not run in your circle, but they do exist. Some of them have even posted on TAM. What I wonder is why people think a normal straight man can't make the choice that he doesn't like it.
But, as you said above:
Quote:
In my opinion
which meant that the only thing that matters is that my husband and I know the truth about all three points you suggest: he's not gay, he isn't lying, and he wasn't raised thinking it was dirty, nor is/was there an issue with being caught. He just chooses not to view it. And I am glad we agree on it.
nothing wrong with abit of porn, i must say a few years ago i was abit closed minded about it, but i got into glamour modelling and now have alot of porn star friends so i see both sides of it, from the people and how nice they are to the filming and then how it all comes together. porn is just abit of fun and im sure she would rather have you wanking over a porn film instead of sleeping with other women
some couples find that watching them together improves your sex life and then she has nothin to be worried about because shes there watching it with you
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Re: wife discovered porn, now wants me out 
