Relationships and AddictionWhether it's drugs, alcohol, gambling, sex, pornography, or anything else, addictions can be detrimental to the health of a relationship.
Ugh, reading some of these online gaming threads almost makes me sick. It's one of the main reasons why I joined this 'marriage' forum. It must just be a 'women's' forum though judging from the responses and excuses i'm seeing.
I came here because yes my marriage is on the ropes at the moment and I think it has everything to do with gaming, online gaming to be precise. I was looking for advice on the effects of gaming and marriages on other people's relationships and all i've found and not just on this site is how selfish most women are.
I am the father of 3 healthy kids that don't have to worry about where their next meal is coming from, or not being able to play outside in the winter because we can't afford coates, and they never go to bed hungry. You can have all the lights on in my house year round, talk on the phone long distance all day long and never worry about these things being turned off because I can't pay the bills. I am the only one that works and I enjoy my job. I'm such a casual drinker, that even saying I drink is questionable. I've never put my hand on my wife in anger, harmed my kids in any physical way, I don't go out partying and I haven't given her any reason to question my faithfullness.
My wife works at home, and by that I mean she cooks, cleans and takes care of the kids. I am not belittling that at all, I know how hard it is watching over young children(mine are ages 4,3,2) and how stressful they can be at times. My apologies for the long summary, but that is my situation.
Now on to online gaming. I game quite a bit, it kills time, is cheap, easy and fun. I don't mind doing things with my wife or the family, all I ask is for a heads up. Suprises in general aren't a thing I like in general, and dislike even more as a gamer. What you women, who refuse to even try something by just looking at, need to realize about online gaming is that it's not something with a pause button, your playing with another Real person or people that have their own real life issues/time constraints going on and don't have time to adjust to everyone elses distractions. Especially if they're in groups or raids(bigger groups w/even more people that requires everyone to pay more attention).
So after work, I'll play with the kids for a bit, grab a drink and sit down to play. I'll play till dinner, then after dinner until it's time for me to bathe the kids and then i'll play until it's time to go to sleep. That's on the weekday and not taking into account other stuff that I may have to do(take oldest to swim class, take sons to get a haircut...etc) and play even more on the weekends. You women 'expect' men to read into your minds...please...it's not happening, if you want to do something then say something and more than just 'You don't spend enough time with me and the kids!' What is that supposed to mean, if your expecting us to guess and magically get it right, then wake up from your dream/movie world that doesn't exist. You want to go out this weekend, no problem, you want to take the kids out to the park sometime this week then ok...just give us a heads up. You want to drop last minute stuff on me, dinner w/friends that night, in-laws visiting tomorrow, fine, then expect us to have a little attitude. As a gamer that's one of the most frustrating things for me, hell even if I wasn't a gamer.
Communication, communication...you hear it so much from women that you would think it's in the bible. Well communicate dammit, when we evolve as a species that can understand others without talking then let me know. Until then, we have no clue and would really appreciate it if you would say something. Ok, you don't want us to play the game so much...np, what are we doing in the none gaming time. Would you be happy if i was sitting on the couch watching the 'games' until you want to do something or talk? I suppose some people just aren't meant to be married, since having fun alone has somehow become a big no no.
Other than just knocking your husband's game, have you even bothered to try it? I mean you want us to stop doing something that is relaxing and fun for us, just because of what you see as childish and a waste of time. I don't know about you but riding a bike is fun, playing basketball is fun, reading fiction is fun...and what do you get to show for those things? Not a damn thing, just like playing a game, but you don't look at those activities as nonconstructive wastes of time do you?
You want your relationship to work, then talk about what it is you want and I don't mean just the broadstroke comments like 'more time with me and the kids' to something we can put a check in the box in, like 'no gaming until the kids are asleep' 'no gaming every other weekend'. Something that we can mentally see and be able to do something about, just remember the indepedent thing works both ways, know you can't 'make' a man do anything he doesn't want to do, but if he wants to keep his family, he will make adjustments, it will also help that you note those adjustments that he does make which can push him to change even more. That is better advice over, 'If he's not giving you what you need, leave now and never turn back' without the husband knowing specifically what the hell you need in the first place.
Me personally, I am a stable person and if you want to leave then cya later, i'll still take care of my responsibility as a father, but i'll be damned if the change you want is me sitting around waiting on you telling me what I should be doing. I already work one job and I refuse to do the same when Im at home. Relationships take work for them to work, but when it becomes an every day thing, it's time for both parties to look on. And right now Im looking at the possibility of being a permanent bachelor, because if this one doesn't work out, i'll never get married again. I just may be one of those people that aren't meant to be with anyone.
Take it from a man speaking his mind and not trying to appease the pissed off women that should be mad at themselves for having an 'addicted gamer'.
P.S. If im told in advance about a gathering, get together or trip to the in-laws, I always go. I never have put gaming ahead of my kids school or daycare events and if my wife ever wanted to do something im there. Im stern with my kids and I don't consider myself their friends, yet they are never in trouble unless they don't do what they're told. I don't like kids to be honest, except my own of course and can't wait until they are older. A kids imagination keeps them from becoming bored, so the whole your kids need you more in their life is lost on me...a son of a single parent mother who had to make toymen out of paper because we were so broke. I want my kids to be strong willed, emotionally/physically strong and dependant on themselves, they learn more from just my actions than by me talking to them. Just by me being here is more than what many other people do or did not have growing up.
Whatever you choose when going over the pros/cons, staying or leaving him; make sure a video game isn't the highest thing on the list.
Sometimes though a resto shaman is just looking for a good tank. She meets a warrior and it's cool between them. Then the warrior specs fury and is all LOL DPS!!1!!!1! This is cool for a bit because she doesn't mind him having fun, but she's specced resto and now its much harder keeping the damn warrior up than it was before. Kinda annoying in fact.
Then she mets a prot pally and this guy just rocks, so easy to heal. They work so well together. The warrior still comes along as DPS, but one day the pally is like "I'm sick of sharing plate drops with the warrior, can't we just get a rogue or a mage or something?"
It's tense for a bit.... then...
/You have been removed from the group
__________________
I do a lot of commenting here and love helping, but much of my best work and most coherent overview of how married men can have the best sex and relationship with their wife is done on my blog at http://www.marriedmansexlife.com/
Heh...i'll bite. Since that probably made no sense to anyone but gamers, is the point your trying to make is that the acceptance and relationships in online gaming are temporary, and that the ones outside of the game are tangible and lifelong. Then point made and I agree, but not once in my post did I say Im some important avatar leader in a virtual world.
My whole post summarized is only this, if you don't like something about what your partner is doing, tell us why and give just a detail of what it is you would rather have us do, since most of the people playing these games are truly having fun and see nothing wrong with how much time they spend online. Not everyone is the great social czar that needs to be out and about to have a healthy lifestyle. And again, 'more time with me and the kids' isn't good enough, you need to be specific or expect little to no change.
Online gaming is very addictive.My ex husband and I played right after dinner until late at night that is part of the reason we split.You don't think you are addicted try staying off the computer for 2 day's.You say you do things as a family but you also said you don't like surprises and like a head up that is because it takes away from your gaming.
People who game and say they are not addicted are in denial.I uninstalled my game from the computer and cancelled my subscription and there have been many times I have to fight myself not to get it back.I started playing because that is what my husband did and I felt if I did'nt involve myself then we would never have time together.It is pretty strange now though we have both split we are in different relationships and neither one of us plays if only we could have done that when we were together.
Denial? Standing my ground is a bit more accurate.
"part of the reason we split"
Definitely not the only reason, since saying i'm leaving someone over playing a video game is like saying i'm leaving someone who wears that tacky shirt I hate looking at. Never asking that person to change or not wear it so often.
I truly don't like suprises, and your right, part of it does have to do with gaming, which i mentioned in my original thread. Real people, no pause buttons and the attention you have to keep. If I say wait 10 minutes, you act like i've just chosen the game over you when all we're saying is just wait a bit and you'll have our full undivided attention. What's 10-15 minutes when you dont see us at work for 8-10 hours?
To make it even better, if I was 'out' playing a basketball game with friends and you were there, would you stop me right in the middle of the game to say, "hey, what do you think about my nails...come look at your son sleeping over here, he's so cute" No, you wouldn't...would you?
My whole post summarized is only this, if you don't like something about what your partner is doing, tell us why and give just a detail of what it is you would rather have us do, since most of the people playing these games are truly having fun and see nothing wrong with how much time they spend online. Not everyone is the great social czar that needs to be out and about to have a healthy lifestyle. And again, 'more time with me and the kids' isn't good enough, you need to be specific or expect little to no change.
That's all fine if you're dealing with a male friend that you have having problems with. Trouble is she's a female that you're having a sexual relationship with, and she will have quite different expectations of interacting with you than a male friend would.
On some level, the gaming is killing her sexual attraction to you. Whether that's simply because when you play you're emotionally absent, you aren't showing leadership, you're physically weakening, she's solo with three toddlers 24/7 or whatever, its clear that something isn't working here. (I don't know exactly what it is based on the info you have given me, but I'm 100% sure on this point)
Once your woman loses attraction for you, her mind just goes into overdrive finding stuff to bust your balls on. She won't even know why the heck she does it, most of it won't even be rational, just emotional whining and nagging. She'll know you are planing to play and she'll spur of the moment decide to do something needing you just to force an argument. So everything in your marriage turns into one long **** test, and it seems you are failing the test.
Quite possibly you are failing on the point of her wanting you to provide a leadership role, where she follows your direction. This is somewhat politically incorrect I know, but a majority of women really do like their husbands to take the lead. So when you say "stop nagging, just tell me what it is you want me to do then" you are actually making things much worse, because you are making it clear that you won't lead.
Women who want to be led by their husbands almost NEVER tell them that. If they have to tell you to lead, it means they are leading not you, which is the opposite of what they emotionally want. And yes you are meant to "just know" that it is what she wants.
__________________
I do a lot of commenting here and love helping, but much of my best work and most coherent overview of how married men can have the best sex and relationship with their wife is done on my blog at http://www.marriedmansexlife.com/
Then that test is over and I have already failed. Why...why do women make things so hard? It's like they are a puzzle and we'll never be able to put all the pieces together.
That was actually sound advice Atholk. I never initiate the events/outtings, only react or follow along with what she plans. That has given me something to think about other than just the 'stop playing or im leaving' ultimatum which burns me to the core with anger and the old, well **** it attitude.
Step away from the computer for a week. Play with the kids (That's likely really turning her attraction off if you don't play with the kids enough), flirt shamelessly with her. (But don't angle it to try and get sex. See my signature line for the basic principle!) Take her out to dinner. Or even just decide what's for dinner and cook it.
Anyway... got to go now. About to head out w my wife
__________________
I do a lot of commenting here and love helping, but much of my best work and most coherent overview of how married men can have the best sex and relationship with their wife is done on my blog at http://www.marriedmansexlife.com/
I do play WoW at the moment, but it was City of Heroes and Everquest 2 before this. I just enjoy online gaming. I think I came to a realization earlier today about my relationship. Other than the kids, we have nothing in common. Im an African American and she is Japanese. We both come from completely different backgrounds, family/friend wise and the only thing that brought us together was just that, I never had a woman genuinely care for me so much and wasn't after me just for looks, what I had and the kind of car I drove...and I suppose she had never had a man that treated her with deep respect, attention, love and affection.
Well the plastic wrap around what we had has well worn off, and when it actually crossed my mind to put the game down until at least the kids are asleep, it just dawned on me that if I wasn't playing the game....what the hell would I be doing during all this new free time?
Other than the kids and loving each other, I don't think we have anything else in common. Is that enough? Since i've been playing the game since day 1, being fed up with just the game can't be the only reason in my opinion she's tossing the big D word out there, I need to come up with something we both can do to fill the void or I think I will come to resent her everytime I see a computer. Since the last thing I want is to come home and wait on her to say when or how I can enjoy myself. Actually that will never happen, i'll sign the divorce papers gladly before the day I come home to misery.
I think tomorrow I'll go see a counselor, since I know I can come off as harsh and uncaring if I just blurt out what's building up inside at the moment.
And that Detox place is just a bunch of people that let a game go way too far into their personal, professional and social lives. I don't see how that is a place to go seek the oh so unreachable 'gaming cure' that I wasn't looking for.
"On some level, the gaming is killing her sexual attraction to you. Whether that's simply because when you play you're emotionally absent, you aren't showing leadership, you're physically weakening, she's solo with three toddlers 24/7 or whatever, its clear that something isn't working here. (I don't know exactly what it is based on the info you have given me, but I'm 100% sure on this point)"
Wow- I completely agree with that statement- my ex was a "gamer" and it was a huge turnoff- he'd sit there for hours with that stupid headset and giggling... it just made me want to throw up and run out the door- and I did. You have a family- why does your wife have to spell it out for you? I only had a puppy with my ex-h so I would just do my own thing while he played his games during his waking hours unless I told him otherwise- which I wasn't his mother- I didn't want to have to monitor his game time. He would stop playing if I asked him to do something, but I didn't like telling him how to spend his free time- so I became very independent and then finally got the guts up to leave.
You need to make the effort to spend time with the family- give your wife a break from the kids- I know you said you help and that's great, but there's things you could do to relax that involve your wife- and if you do some of those things without her having to ask you then she's going to be a happier person with your marriage and family- maybe not complain as much... why does she need to tell you specific things like- you can only play after the kids are sleeping- take some initiative and if you see something that can improve the marriage- DO IT!
I think having a 2, 3 and 4 year old is basically the source of most of her stress. Spending time with them all day drives most people stir crazy. You playing before the kids came along may not have been a problem. A mild annoyance perhaps, but not a deal breaker. The trouble is that it sounds like you are trying to live the same way now that the kids have come along. She's run out of energy with the home situation and needs you to either change and help out more, or find someone who can.
If you are heading towards divorce with your wife clearly stating that gaming is the issue, then I think you do have a gaming problem. Claiming you don't have a problem because your job is unaffected is missing the point, you're have your entire non-work life falling apart because of it. So it meets the criteria of it being a problem, when it's a problem.
Most people have that trouble of filling a vacuum when giving up an addiction. That's one of the symptoms of it actually being an addiction. Extreme example... I'm sure you would think a heroin addict suggesting that giving up heroin would be a bad idea because he wouldn't know what to do with his day without the heroin would be silly.
Here's the basic choice that I can see ahead of you...
Option One - Just keep on doing whatever you are currently doing, and it sounds like you are seriously risking divorce, three child support payments and alimony as well. I'm not sure how much you make, but frankly after the **** hits the fan and everyone gets a piece of your income, you may not be able to even afford $15 a month to log onto Warcraft. You'll struggle with dating anyone of value because all of the pretty girls will vanish on you once they find out about the alimony and child support sphioning happening to your paycheck.
Option Two - take a break from gaming for a while. Cataclysm isn't out for at least another 3-4 months, and in terms of character gearing, new expansions just make the older gear unimportant pretty quickly. So really you aren't risking over much with your characters. During this time give you body time to adjust to the lack of having the neurochemicals that gaming produces swimming in your brain. There really is a detox happening. Purposely spend time with your wife and kids. Make things happen at home for them. Lead.
If Option Two still turns out to still be heading to divorce, well you can just log back onto the account and rent an apartment.
I know I'm making sense to you here. If the choice is at all hard to make.... it's because you are addicted.
I absolutely dare you to show your wife this thread.
__________________
I do a lot of commenting here and love helping, but much of my best work and most coherent overview of how married men can have the best sex and relationship with their wife is done on my blog at http://www.marriedmansexlife.com/
I've tried to do things a bit differently since Monday, we're still not talking normally but things are moving forward at least. I've taken my kids out bowling on Monday evening, cooked dinner Tuesday night, had a good vent session today with a professional counselor and honestly...I don't know why I was so strung up over this in the first place.
My whole situation...listen up gamers...could have easily been avoided if I just would have took the time to help out with the kids, do some things with the family, and try to include my wife in things we both can enjoy. During this little 3 day phase of mine, I have not stopped gaming at all. I've just tried to balance what I enjoy, with what I enjoy with my family...putting them first pretty much before myself.
By doing these other things, you come to realize that hey, this isn't boring or bad at all, and the itch to login as soon as I get home has faded. Now...if you are like how I thought I would be...angry, pissed off and resentful of not being able to play whenever you get the urge, then either your not really putting forth an effort or it is time to move on.
My counselor gave me a book that seems pretty good, The 7 Habits of Highly Effective Families by Stephen R. Covey and the Prep workbook for a 1 day workshop on 'Fighting for Your Marriage'.
And to Atholk, i'm actually a touch irritated that you were right...although the divorce, child support and other garnishes doesn't weigh as heavily with me, the main thing that I realized was that I actually want this marriage to work, and if I can do that without sacrificing what it is I enjoy...then it's worth giving it a shot. But I honestly came here with all intentions on standing up for all those who have or had play games, since most of these women seemed like they couldn't grasp or understand why they're enjoyable without even giving one a shot.
I think your Option One is more of a so what for most gamers, it almost seems like freedom in a way? You women hold all the 'I could take...' cards over our heads expecting that threats will force us to change when all it does is builds the kind of resentment that people kill over. In my opinion, no matter how bad it gets, it can always be worse(which is why I don't understand suicides). Thank goodness she didn't mention that to me, I would have went and got the divorce papers myself.
Option 2 looks great, although I haven't stopped gaming. I just don't do it until the kids are asleep now. And as I mentioned before, making a conscious effort to spend time with the family seems to be paying off, I can actually see from her body language that she recognizes I'm trying to change.
And to Blundee, did you ever put on that stupid headset? Did you even try the game? You probably didn't, judging without experience is ignorant. Next time you see a comedy or someone tells a joke, try not to laugh and see how odd that feels... So somehow he's a turnoff because of a normal reaction to something funny that he heard through those stupid headsets? Meh, other than your lack of effort on your part for even trying to see what he got out of it, you did have some sound advicewhich echo'd Atholk, initiative/lead.
And to Atholk, i'm actually a touch irritated that you were right...although the divorce, child support and other garnishes doesn't weigh as heavily with me, the main thing that I realized was that I actually want this marriage to work, and if I can do that without sacrificing what it is I enjoy...then it's worth giving it a shot. But I honestly came here with all intentions on standing up for all those who have or had play games, since most of these women seemed like they couldn't grasp or understand why they're enjoyable without even giving one a shot.
Well I'm not here to win friends
I'm right because I have fought my own battles with gaming addiction, so I know. I did 100+ days played (as in 2400+ hours)on my mage in the first year of Warcraft coming out. High end raid guild and server first boss kills etc. Awesome good fun. The real "oh ****" point came when my wife had a bad mammogram. I still miss some of my online friends from that time - sometimes it's not even the game, it's the emotional attachments to other actual people that are the issue.
But like I say... Quitting World of Warcraft is easy, I've done it 6 times.
Personally - and your mileage may very well vary on this point - I just find I can't really control it. I can't log on for "just an hour". It starts that way, but it always grows and grows. So for me, I have to stop completely. I tend to be fairly focused, so it's really just better for everyone that I'm focuses about family stuff rather than a game.
Glad to hear you're making progress.
__________________
I do a lot of commenting here and love helping, but much of my best work and most coherent overview of how married men can have the best sex and relationship with their wife is done on my blog at http://www.marriedmansexlife.com/
Blundee? Ok... I'm sorry I came across so rude- little cranky the other day I guess And no I never tried on the stupid headset, I think it was a lot of things- my ex played it from the moment he got home from work till he went to sleep and then before he went to work... it became annoying and eventually it became just a huge turnoff for me- i just couldn't watch him play the game, but there were other issues- drinking, lying, porn and the games so I didn't leave him because he played video games, but they didn't help. That's just where I cam coming from- sorry- didn't mean to be judgemental towards you.
I think it's a great idea to make changes without her having to ask you to- that way you aren't resenting her for telling you what to do and she's going to start noticing how you are around more with the family. So I'm glad you are trying to make things work
Online Gaming Addiction? Get Outta Here!
