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post #136 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-11-2014, 09:43 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

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Hmmm, sounds like a great subject to study!

I already chose my subject. I did my Master's research on concepts of female sanctity in the Early Insular Irish Church and how that was tied into pre-Christian Irish society and inlets for female religious and social power and how it was portrayed in the lives in female saints like Ita and Bridget.

I recently applied to a Doctorate program to continue it.

But honestly, trying to separate Westernized Christianity as a social construct from the culture that created is a moot endeavor in large part. Our faith defined our culture and our culture shaped our faith. And the self-actualization of Western Christianity is more than just word-for-word what's in the Bible as our interpretation and understanding and translation of those words is shaped by our culture.

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post #137 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-11-2014, 09:44 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

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I do wonder if Santa is more often a thing in countries that are primarily Protestant versus Catholic or Orthodox where Epiphany is a still a thing.

Because I know that in Latin American and Spanish-culture areas there the culture celebrates the Magi AKA The Three Wisemen as whom brings presents and gifts (similarly of course to how they brought them to Jesus.)

And of course, the interesting thing there, as Tunera notes about Santa is the traditional belief that the Three Wisemen represented a very diverse group as they are traditionally represented as three different cultures/races.
In the countries other than the USA where I have lived (central America, East Africa, Middle East and Italy) the epiphany was celebrated. No one had Christmas trees. And Santa was not around.

However, Italians do have Babbo Natale, (father Christmas) who is St. Nicolas. But they don't have the same associations about the character as Americans do.
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post #138 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-11-2014, 09:57 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

Too late!!! We are all going to hecckkkkk!!!!
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post #139 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-11-2014, 10:00 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

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I already chose my subject.
I was talking about ME. For FUN.
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post #140 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-11-2014, 10:05 PM
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post #141 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-11-2014, 11:54 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

I was raised Roman Catholic. My dad was in seminary for a couple years. He was pretty good about keeping us on the straight and narrow as far as the church was concerned, following some of the rules that were determined to be no longer valid(?). ETA: Which means he was a little stricter than most parents due to the old rules. end ETA. Anyway, we did put up a tree and had a manger under it. We also had a train under it and a small village. We had a Santa figurine that was placed on a short wall for decoration. We put ugly red plastic, lighted wreaths in the living room windows. We did not kneel and pray or worship at the tree or the figurine or the wreaths. They were decorations only and we were told that specifically. It was explained to us at a young age. Decorations did not make any of us fall away from the church.

While I understand the concern, I tend to think it's a bit of paranoia and a sort of mindset that doesn't allow for the intelligence of children and adults. What I don't like about it is the commercialization. Yeah, I think there needs to be advertising. Folks need jobs and this isn't such a horrible thing. I just think there is so much pressure on parents, weaker and poorer folks set about robbing and stealing to meet the expectations placed on them by society and commercials. Those are what bother me because people actually get hurt and that's absolutely not the message of Christmas. Sad that the real message can't be delivered to all without offending.

"I'm significant!! Screamed the dust speck." - Bill Watterson

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post #142 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-12-2014, 05:00 AM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

Yes, this is my issue too, commercialism around Christmas, weddings and motherhood in particular.

I was literally told by my mother that I was must have two mental conditions since I was not "nesting" while pregnant.

I was "nesting." It just wasn't this full blown nursery like she would have done. All that stuff isn't necessary, so I just have my own philosophy, not mental illness, but good grief our society make a case that if you don't have xyz you won't survive childcare. Sorry, but my child and I will survive just fine being changed on a big cushy towel/blanket. I never had a "changing station" but instead had a thick blanket I covered with a towel and put it where I needed it, ( bed, counter or floor). Never had a crib, but a compact co-sleeper that was between my H and I in the bed $30. Right now he has a VERY nice aerobed, queen size for his bed. He loves it. I just push a pillow undr the bed sheet to keep him from rolling off. Has never has a toddler bed. We use what we have the way it used to be done. It bothers me when I see wives pushing their husbands to fully outfit a nursery, when the bulk of that stuff is totally unnecessary. So, same thing with weddings and Christmas in my opinion. And don't even get me started on the housing and auto industry.

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post #143 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-12-2014, 07:40 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

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Originally Posted by foolscotton3 View Post
But did you pray to the dead to intercede for your salvation and venerate a man as the image of god on earth?

Did the 10 commandments of your chatecism match those of the bible. Does the 10 commandments of the Roman Catholic catechism even mention the making idols, or was that omitted to make room for their sacred icons?

I was raised in the cult as well.
I hear this all the time. Do you know that if you've officially left the church you can no longer go to heaven? Do you know why? Because you were taught the way to salvation and rejected it. I don't pray to any statues. Those saints are alive in Christ, not dead. We could argue all day, but I don't think it is worth it. You have a right to your beliefs and I to mine. Neither of us can really be certain of anything, until we die. We have faith and thereby grace. Works come from the desire to follow the faith and through the gifts of the Holy Spirit. God Bless and Merry Christmas.

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post #144 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-13-2014, 11:57 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

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I was talking about ME. For FUN.
Go for it girl!

I do agree it would be an interesting look, because this conversation probably would have an entirely different feel within a vastly different cultural context.
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post #145 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-14-2014, 12:02 AM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

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Isaiah 64:6 taught me that religion, is like offering to God, the menstral garment you used to cleanse your sin, as a sacrifice
There's no translation of Isaiah 64:6 I can find that in anyway refers to "menstral" so the random inclusion of that word and the non-neccessity versus the actual term - filthy or unclean seems at face value like backhanded sexism.

Was it to remind the women posting here in this thread about how unclean and unworthy they are? Why the focus on genitals in general in your post?

If all religion was taught by the devil, then why did God himself lay down expectations for the Hebrews that were so "religion" IE - law focused? Why create an entire culture that is the very essence of "earning your part in your own salvation" literally, through expectation of physical burnt-offering sacrifice and the killing of people found living outside the law. Was that just to pull a "Ha-Ha" later after Christ was born?

Were the Hebrews following a religion created by the Devil when they followed the literal word of God as given from the Holy of Holies to Moses and Aaron?

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post #146 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-14-2014, 09:25 AM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

This reminds me why I stopped going to church.

Because I cannot rectify my faith in a loving God with all of this heavy anti-female symbolism and interpretation.

Also, I've never heard the interpretation that the law was supposed to be a curse.

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The laws weren't given to man so that he could obtain salvation, the law was given to man so that he would be under a curse. Without the law, we have nothing to be saved from, we would all be holy, its because of the law we are all Fkd, and need Christ.
God had no need to tell men the law so they could all be holy. Telling us about which things are sins didn't change the curse of original sin. So didn't we all arguably need saving whether or not God told us murder was wrong?
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post #147 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-14-2014, 03:32 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

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Also, I've never heard the interpretation that the law was supposed to be a curse.
foolscotton3 seems to have his own personal interpretation of things.
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post #148 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-14-2014, 05:16 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset


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post #149 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-14-2014, 05:56 PM
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Re: Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

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If you feel comfortable deceiving your children, and marginalizing Christ in favor of traditional wives tales that promote merit rather than grace, more power to you... I would imagine anybody that speaks truth to your children about the lies you hold so sacred to the childhood experience would be condemned to death, such is the patterns of scripture, humanity will always condemn anything that stands between them and object of worship, even if that means condemning God himself.
My children are not baptised...before you scream blasphemy at me I happen to be spiritually pagan. My morals and values are set in one sentence:

Do as ye please but harm none, all you do comes back to you three fold.

My values hail from my Irish ancestral roots. Druidry and Celtic Shamanism.

A very inward, naturally connected set of doctrines and dogma that accepts all values and works from within. I also associate with Unitarian Universalism (got married in a UU hall and was a purely Druidic ceremony).

Wasn't it God that said I am known by many names, I have many faces?

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post #150 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-14-2014, 07:16 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

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Let No One Disqualify You - Colossians 2
16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. 17 These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ. 18 Let no one disqualify you, insisting on asceticism and worship of angels, going on in detail about visions,[d] puffed up without reason by his sensuous mind, 19 and not holding fast to the Head, from whom the whole body, nourished and knit together through its joints and ligaments, grows with a growth that is from God.

20 If with Christ you died to the elemental spirits of the world, why, as if you were still alive in the world, do you submit to regulations— 21 “Do not handle, Do not taste, Do not touch” 22 (referring to things that all perish as they are used)—according to human precepts and teachings? 23 These have indeed an appearance of wisdom in promoting self-made religion and asceticism and severity to the body, but they are of no value in stopping the indulgence of the flesh.
To me, the above rules out legalism about such matters.

That said, in our family Easter is about the Resurrection, not the Bunny. Christmas is Jesus' Birthday. Santa Claus comes from Saint Nicholas. The fellas dressed in red suits remind us of the kindness and generosity of Saint Nicholas. We got a nice children's book from a Christian bookstore which included the following account of Saint Nicholas:

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One story tells of a poor man with three daughters. In those days a young woman's father had to offer prospective husbands something of value—a dowry. The larger the dowry, the better the chance that a young woman would find a good husband. Without a dowry, a woman was unlikely to marry. This poor man's daughters, without dowries, were therefore destined to be sold into slavery. Mysteriously, on three different occasions, a bag of gold appeared in their home-providing the needed dowries. The bags of gold, tossed through an open window, are said to have landed in stockings or shoes left before the fire to dry. This led to the custom of children hanging stockings or putting out shoes, eagerly awaiting gifts from Saint Nicholas. Sometimes the story is told with gold balls instead of bags of gold. That is why three gold balls, sometimes represented as oranges, are one of the symbols for St. Nicholas. And so St. Nicholas is a gift-giver. St. Nicholas Center ::: Who is St. Nicholas?
My 19yod was dating a young man whose family does not do Christmas, Easter, etc. The women don't talk in church AT ALL, they don't even pray, and they wear head coverings.

To me that was all very scary and I'm very glad that she broke up with him recently. She told me she feels God's LOVE much more since they broke up. She said their views were much more about judgment.

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