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post #91 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-06-2014, 07:21 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

Majority of Christians don't know the true origins of these pagan holidays nor do they care to.

Once the truth is known, they get angry and continue to practice them anyway.

I too participated in these pagan holidays as a kid. Didn't make me evil, pagan, etc. so very true. But as an adult, I know what the true origins of them are now and I chose to follow God's word and be separate from it.

Doesn't mean I'm ignoring all my friends and other families that do partake in these holidays. I still see them, and we have great gatherings. It's their houses and their customs and I respect that. But in our house, we follow to be separate and no more pagan holidays and decorating for reasons I never realized until recently. Eye opener for sure.

I'm not judging anyone or looking down on anyone that practices these pagan holidays.

If 95% of those who believe don't know the true origins of these pagan holidays, doesn't make it right. Majority means nothing to God. It's following his word or not. In the end, majority of the planet will not believe or follow God's word when Jesus returns anyway. It will be that bad.

Soddem and Ghemorrah, entire city was sexually sinful and corrupt. Only one family followed God's word....Lot and they were spared while the entire city was destroyed. Actually found the city, it was destroyed by a nearby volcano, with liquid faction and that was proved in the strata layers.

The bible was starting to be written only 30 - 40 years roughly after Jesus was crucified. Not 3+ hundred years. I've research that one as well. If it was written 3+ hundred years later, the desciples would of been long dead and no one would have accurate personal recordings like they did after Jesus was crucified.

I've also dived into why certain books were not in the Bible. Because they were gnostic and false, later proven that was the case. I remember looking into that.

Everyone has to do what they are comfortable with and this is my first year not celebrating pagan witchcraft based holidays. Kind of liberating if you ask me. No more hustle and bustle, running around, gifts, materialism, who has the best decorations, lights and trees, none have anything to do with Jesus.

God tells us not to drink and get drunk. So if 95% of believers drink and get drunk on the holidays, does that then make it right and because its been that way now for centuries? No.

Helping those in need, working at food banks, donating items anonymously, all are good to do.

If Jesus returned today, he would be in the food banks, helping build houses for the poor, he was a carpenter, assisting those on the streets, that's what he would be doing. He would not be decorating Christmas trees, celebrating Halloween, Easter Bunny, dressing as Santa Claus, etc.


There is a Bible verse when Jesus was alive........way back then about Christmas trees:

“Learn not the way of the nations, nor be dismayed at the signs of the heavens because the nations are dismayed at them, for the customs of the peoples are vanity. A tree from the forest is cut down and worked with an axe by the hands of a craftsman. They decorate it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so that it cannot move. Their idols are like scarecrows in a cucumber field, and they cannot speak; they have to be carried, for they cannot walk. Do not be afraid of them, for they cannot do evil, neither is it in them to do good.”


Strength and Honor. What we do in life echo's in eternity.

Last edited by CuddleBug; 12-06-2014 at 07:51 PM.
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post #92 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-06-2014, 07:33 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

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I did the research and I know what is what.
Iíve studied these topics extensively. What you and a few others have posted is mostly nonsense that twists the truth of history and religion. Iím not interested in a long, blow by blow argument on these topics. You have read the disinformation and swallowed it whole. Thatís your business.

The only reason Iím posting on this thread is in the hope that no one takes the disinformation posted here at face value. Now if they want to discuss it I will as long as it can be discussed without hate and gross negativety.

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If hundreds of millions of people jump up and down, off a bridge......you will do the same? Awesome.
Yes, and if millions of people want to believe the disintormatoin posted on hate websites about things like this.. Awesome.

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Christians have been told not to participate in these pagan events by God from the Bible. If Christians actually know this, and still practice it anyway, they aren't following what God has told them.
Do you cut your hair? Do you shave or trim your beard? Do you eat pork or seafood?

To participate in a pagan event, one must believe in the ritual and believe that it has power. 99.9999999999999999999% of the people who do the fun traditions on these holidays donít believe they have any power.

You can do whatever you want. Trying to shame people who are doing what they want it wrong and not your place.

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We have been told to come out and be separate......so if millions ignore this, their choice.
I'm not judging anyone, but God will.
Yes you are judging. Not only that, you know that to a fundamentalist, saying that God will judge is a threat.

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post #93 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-06-2014, 07:42 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

I am not Jewish, I am a gentile.

Cutting ones hair doesn't mean anything. Hair is dead cells anyway. Jesus couldn't care less about your hair style or clothes you wear.

Do you follow God's word, what he tells you not to do or focus on cutting your hair and pagan holidays?

I've chatted with individuals who were in Satanism okay. They know what these holidays are really about. The world has been dumbed down, to the point we have no clue and celebrate them regardless.

If the Bible tells us not to follow the customs of the nations, cut down trees and decorate them, in vain, etc. I know, lets still have Christmas trees. And that was thousands of years ago too.

If God tells us to come out and be separate from the nations, not to participate in these holidays, I know, lets say we still are Christians and do so.

I chose to do the right thing and try to follow God' word. Many make excuses, talk their way out of it and do not.

You cannot serve two masters. Either Jesus or Santa Claus.

I feel like a weight has been lifting off my shoulders and liberated from these pagan, non Christian holidays. Feels really good.

Strength and Honor. What we do in life echo's in eternity.

Last edited by CuddleBug; 12-06-2014 at 07:55 PM.
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post #94 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-06-2014, 08:08 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

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And let's not even get started on how the Bible wasn't even written for 3 centuries and MORE after Jesus died,
The books of the New Testament were written between 44 and 96 AD. The word bible comes from bibliotheca, meaning library. The Bible is a library of books, a collection.

For centuries after the death of Jesus, Christian wrote a hundreds of scriptures. They were copied and passes around to the parishes. Over time a small set of them came to be considered the most inspired. These were collected and put into the Latin Vulgate Bible, which became canon in c. 383 in the Western Church (Catholic). The Eastern Church as a different canon (slightly different set of books). In the Western church discussion about what belonged in the bible went on for a few hundred more years and was settled in

The Coptics have a different canon with slightly different set of books. Then a few hundred years later the Protestants decided to remove some books from the Western canon.

Here is an interesting source that discusses the dates and the content of different canons that exist. There are 4 different traditions with 12 different bible configurations.
Biblical canon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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and the different geographical factions FOUGHT political fights over which pieces would be included in the Bible, and even which parts were TRUE, and even then, it was written by hand, in a language that's been translated 2 times before it came to modern English.
Yes the original text was written by hand. What is interesting is how accurate the copies are. In those days it took a year or more to transcribe all the books of the bible. The men who did it were meticulous.
And yes they were in different ancient languages. Official translations were done by people at the time who know the languages well, so the early translations were excellent. At one time Greek was the language of the learned. When it switched the Church commissioned the translation in Latin. After that the Church would not sanction any further translation for a long time because they were concerned about bad translations.
Most people I know who really study the Bible don’t just read the modern translations. They go back and look at the earlier copies, and study the meaning of the words at the time the book was written. For example in Genesis it the English translations use the word ‘day’ for the time of creation. The original word that was used had two meanings. Its main meaning was ‘period of time’. But when used in colloquial speaking, people would use it loosely to mean a day. So the translation to “day” is probably wrong. I should not be 7 days. It should be 7 periods of time. Modern science agrees with the 7 periods of time, interestingly.

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And let's not even talk about what the King James version did to the Bible for political reasons. I have to laugh when people quote King James Bible as though it's the absolute final word on things. Take me back to the castles 1800 years ago when they were discussing how to put the Bible together, and if they said exactly what King James says, I'll come back and apologize for dismissing it. Until then, I'll believe in the INTENT of God's word. It's served us pretty well.
I agree 100%.

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Last edited by EleGirl; 12-08-2014 at 11:59 AM.
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post #95 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-06-2014, 09:03 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

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The bible was starting to be written only 30 - 40 years roughly after Jesus was crucified. Not 3+ hundred years. I've research that one as well. If it was written 3+ hundred years later, the desciples would of been long dead and no one would have accurate personal recordings like they did after Jesus was crucified.
What Ele said.
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post #96 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-06-2014, 09:21 PM
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Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

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You are making a very common mistake.. thinking that language/words used in the USA are what the rest of the world uses and that they go back to history centries ago.

Hawaii..............Kanakaloka
EleGirl,

There is no Hawaiian version of Santa Claus. It is actually a translation of the American Santa Claus into Hawaiian by the American missionaries.

The Hawaiians celebrated the Makahiki, a time of peace and games celebrating the god of Lono which is signified by the appearance of the constellation Pleiades which just happens to overlap with the Christmas season. There was no Christmas in Hawaii and Santa Claus until it was introduced by the missionaries.

The actual reality is that Christians have used their beliefs and supplanted other celebrations with a new focus of Christianity. The purpose was to transform pagan tradition into acceptable Christian tradition.

The holidays are actually pagan in origin changed by the adoption of Christianity. I find it amusing that Cuddlebug refuses to acknowledge these holidays are celebrated the way they are now because of the Christian rewriting of local traditions to suit their ideals and morals.

My brother in law is a Bishop in the episcopal church and he used to be like the OP and tried to separate and excise Santa Claus from Christmas. Over the years he has come to recognize that the traditions of Santa Claus (etc.) add to and do not diminish a celebration of Christ. For him it is worship that is the key not what previous people thought that it meant. It is about his and our current intent and worship.

I don't want to not live because of my fear of what could happen. - Laird Hamilton

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post #97 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-06-2014, 09:43 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

I am a theologian. Studied the histories and celebrate traditional holidays because they are tradition and fun. Brings communities together and that is fine.

I am not worshipping any gods or other things. I am a devout Christian.

Seriously doubt non Christians are worshipping any god with their Christmas trees.

Traditions are fine and not against scripture. Christians who give thanks and worship other gods are doing wrong.

Christians who have a good time with family and neighbors while eating a little too much and giving gifts are doing no wrong.
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post #98 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-06-2014, 09:51 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

Ahh, but then you don't get to feel self-righteous.
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post #99 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-06-2014, 09:59 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

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Ahh, but then you don't get to feel self-righteous.
That is exactly the problem with zealots! They are too self absorbed.

I don't want to not live because of my fear of what could happen. - Laird Hamilton

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post #100 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-06-2014, 10:09 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

Sometimes I think people really do want to please God but get lost in the details. I think a lot of folks don't have bad intentions when they might be taking something to an extreme.

I am never going to give thanks to or praise and worship to any other than Jesus Christ. In that, I am zealous.

Informing people that their family holiday has pagan origins and trying to pressure them to stop...... don't see how I ought to be zealous about that or even really care.

But people usually don't start out to cause problems. I think they just get a little lost along the way.

Can happen to any of us if we aren't living balanced and healthy.

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post #101 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 02:10 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

I celebrated these pagan witchcraft based holidays my entire life because its always been that way and everyone does it.

Then I learned the true origins of these holidays from a pagan witchcraft point of view. Not people of faith merging them and to have fun.

In the Bible it even says not to decorate the trees, to be part of it, come out and be separate and not participate in the pagan events.

Just as relevant back then, Jesus's time, as it is today.

When Jesus and his disciples were alive, did they partake in pagan festivities? No. Did they do Christmas trees, decorations, Easter Bunny, Halloween, etc. No. They knew what it was all about.

So if Jesus and the first true Christians didn't do these things, why are we Christians doing them 2000 or so years later?

Does that make them extremists and zealots? No.

Like I said earlier, I know what they really mean now and I'm actually making the effort for the first time to follow God's word in the bible. This will be my first year for doing all of this and Mrs.CuddleBug is totally on board.

I am not preaching in peoples faces, going door to door, nothing at all.

All I'm saying is, as professed Christians, we know better, but still do it anyway......and if Jesus came back today, he would say, come out from it, and be separate. But majority of people today would get angry, call him an extremist and zealot and probably kill him again......

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post #102 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 02:17 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

Read all of Paul. Everything he wrote on religion and faith. His teachings on the law are too extensive to into on a blog.

Do you celebrate the feast of booths? If not, why?
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post #103 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 03:13 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

Thx and I will read on it.

Jesus and his disciples were persecuted, Jesus nailed to a cross and they all were eventually killed off afterwards.

They were saying the things I have said here and way more and the majority of the peoples got angry, didn't like it or want to change, and it went against their traditions and how its always been.

No different back then compared to what we have today.

People were doing the same things back then, more so than today. Open orgies, sexy with young boys and girls, gladiators to the death. Today, UFC but not to the death, no more open orgies, sex with young boys and girls you go to jail, etc.

If Jesus tells us certain things are wrong, and we do them anyway, we are in the wrong. Problem is, if we do something long enough and enough peoples do this, it becomes okay. "That goes for anything." Then if you say its wrong, watch how many people get angry and call you names and try to find ways out of it.

When I learned what I learned, I didn't get angry, defensive and make excuses. I was taken a step back because I didn't really know. My choice to try and follow God's word, what Jesus said, and I'm not making excuses for myself.

Jesus said to come out from, not participate in these pagan events and traditions, decorations of tree are in vain, etc. But we know better than Jesus?

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post #104 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 05:12 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

Pagan traditions and celebrations existed at all because humans at that time believed in many different kinds of gods. The seasonal timing of them is natural, because humans' lives were marked by the seasons.

As humans' beliefs changed from many gods to one God, so evolved their traditions and the meanings behind them. I think even the cross had been a symbol of some sort already long before it was about Christ.

Anyway, my point is, the meanings behind those ancient traditions and celebrations has evolved into meanings relating to Christianity. (Halloween aside - that's only about fun costumes and candy, for sure!!). Those newer interpretations are meaningful to Christians now. They are celebrating Christianity in a joyous, spirited way by setting up Christmas lights and singing Jingle Bells. Neither their intentions nor their use of the symbols is pagan or polytheistic, but Christian.

If I believed in Jesus, I'd like to believe in one that said, "Hey, y'all, thanks for all your birthday greetings and wishes! Special shout out to Lincoln Park Zoo in Chicago - you do a great job every year with those giraffe lights! Thank you for thinking of me! I feel so blessed!"
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post #105 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-07-2014, 05:44 PM
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Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

Yeah, I don't think Jesus would be getting all judgey.

Last edited by soccermom2three; 12-08-2014 at 10:28 AM.
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