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post #106 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-08-2014, 05:54 AM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

I think the point of this thread though wasn't is modern Christmas evil and do we need to threaten people with Holy smiting for it. The question was if you came to this conclusion and Mrs Cuddlebug wasn't on board, do you have some right to impose the new no holiday policy like some patriarch with no regard for her feelings on the matter.
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post #107 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-08-2014, 06:02 AM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

Also, I've got to ask is part of this sudden revelation about the pagan nature of holidays and how relieved you are not to participate mean no more Christmas presents or cards?

Do you accept these things from others as their custom but don't reciprocate?
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post #108 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-08-2014, 07:36 AM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

I am agnostic, and I celebrate it for the commercial holiday it is. I have my own meaning to Christmas. For me It is a holiday thinking about others, and wanting them to smile as you give them a thoughtful gift. Also, it is the time where I donate time and money to the less fortunate. Winter is a harsh time, and they need the support.

Perhaps you can change the meaning of the holiday.

I am such a tree hugger because it gives me wood!
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post #109 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-08-2014, 07:16 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

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There is a Bible verse when Jesus was alive........way back then about Christmas trees:

“Learn not the way of the nations, nor be dismayed at the signs of the heavens because the nations are dismayed at them, for the customs of the peoples are vanity. A tree from the forest is cut down and worked with an axe by the hands of a craftsman. They decorate it with silver and gold; they fasten it with hammer and nails so that it cannot move. Their idols are like scarecrows in a cucumber field, and they cannot speak; they have to be carried, for they cannot walk. Do not be afraid of them, for they cannot do evil, neither is it in them to do good.”
This is a quote from Jeremiah. So saying that's a "Bible verse" from when Jesus was alive is a bit of a fallacy. Also how could Jeremiah be talking about Christmas trees? That practice, "pagan" or otherwise, was never practiced in ancient Judea - there are no appropriate evergreen trees that grow there for use in that kind of custom. Jeremiah is talking in a large context about the production of idols.

https://www.gci.org/church/holidays/trees

I liken a different verse for my Christmas tree something green and vibrant in a world otherwise cold, and dark, and desolate.

Quote:
There shall come forth a shoot from the stump of Jesse, and a branch from his roots shall bear fruit.
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post #110 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-08-2014, 08:03 PM
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Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

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Hook me up a new revolution, cause this one is a lie. Sat around laughing and watched the last one die.

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post #111 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-08-2014, 08:51 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

Jeremiah was born in about 546 BC. So the book of Jeremiah is part of the Old Testament. It did exist at the time Jesus was alive.

Jeremiah is not condemning Christmas trees. He is condemning idolatry. The trees in Jeremiah 10 are cut down to carve them into worthless idols that will later be decorated with gold and silver. Jeremiah says nothing about Christmas trees. That custom originated in northern Europe, not in ancient Judea.
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post #112 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-09-2014, 01:06 PM
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Jeremiah was born in about 546 BC. So the book of Jeremiah is part of the Old Testament. It did exist at the time Jesus was alive.

Jeremiah is not condemning Christmas trees. He is condemning idolatry. The trees in Jeremiah 10 are cut down to carve them into worthless idols that will later be decorated with gold and silver. Jeremiah says nothing about Christmas trees. That custom originated in northern Europe, not in ancient Judea.
You probably explained that better than I did, lol.
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post #113 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-09-2014, 03:38 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

I wish the OP had come back to let us know how things turned out.

Darling it's better down where it's wetter, take it from me! --- Sebastian
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post #114 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-09-2014, 06:40 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

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Originally Posted by foolscotton3 View Post
This statement seems ignorant...
the flag of Lebanon has an evergreen on it for a reason.
Sigh....

The scripture in Jeremiah is referring to the process for which an idol was made out of wood, illustrating the foolishness of worshipping something made with your own hands out of wood which used to be a tree.

The tradition of the Christmas tree was adopted by Catholic church fathers centuries later. The church fathers were competing with pagan religions that worshipped different deities at different times of year including summer and winter solstice.

There was a practice of going into the woods and decorating trees. The catholic church fathers had developed a practice of absorbing pagan rituals and grafting them, bizarrely, with Christianity to establish a larger power base and bring the pagan worshippers into the church.

Where do Cardinals come from? Did not see them anywhere in the Judeo/Christian bible. The position of cardinal was the result of another grafting of a pagan religion into Catholicism.

It was an interesting study for any interested.

I celebrated traditional American Christmas as a family holiday after finding it's pagan roots. Simply telling my children that it was a family tradition for many and I time to grow close and that every day of the year was good to remember the birth of Jesus the Christ.

I did not try to mix Jesus with Santa Claus but the myth that arose from the actual story is a relatively harmless family tradition. I soon stopped the Santa myth because I wanted my children to know that all their good presents came from a father and mother who loved them. But that is a call that every family has to decide how to navigate.

To me and many other Christians and non, it is simply a fun family tradition. I am full aware of the pagan origins of holidays but I do not worship idols and false gods in the process. There are relatively few who actually know the origins and practice pagan rituals and worship pagan deities.

I have friends that don't celebrate and I don't try to rub it in their face and respect their decisions.

Paul wrote that food that had been sacrificed to idols was fine to purchase cheaply and eat. There was nothing wrong with it but if any brother (Christian) was offended by it, not to feed it to them or even bring it up. There are too many scriptures that Paul wrote but they illustrate what religion, the law and true worship of Jesus looked like.

To the OP of this thread. You would not be disobeying God to stand up to your husband on this respectfully. He is probably doing what he perceives to be best for his family but you are his helpmate and he should always consider your counsel. Do not provide a divided front in the sight of your children.

That would be more harmful than any holiday celebration or not.

But continue to voice your concerns to him in private. Even send him here if you do not feel supported by your church or friends.

I don't advocate beating your husband up on a forum or other venue but having a reasoned conversation can only help.

God bless you and your family.
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post #115 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-09-2014, 07:13 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

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Originally Posted by foolscotton3 View Post
This statement seems ignorant...
the flag of Lebanon has an evergreen on it for a reason.
And what do think this reason is?

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post #116 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-09-2014, 08:40 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

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Originally Posted by foolscotton3 View Post
I dont think the catholic church did much grafting, its likely the roman empire adopted christian language, rather than "vise versa." Rome had a habit of being whatever it needed to be to stay in control, if the populous converted to Christianity, Rome would become the face of christ.
Actually, it did a TON of grafting. Back then, it was hard to control the populace, there was little government, and little oversight, and the church filled the void. But it found that merely preaching the word did little to affect peasants who cared more about getting enough food to eat than whether they were behaving nobly and with grace. So it did what it had to do, to gain a toehold in the land. If a group believed in a certain way of doing things, in the early days the church wasn't strong enough to just shout "Blaspheme!" and draw people into the church. Centuries later, sure. But back in those days, they worked with the people at their level. And if took overlooking a certain this or that going on, well, sometimes it happened.
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post #117 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-09-2014, 08:59 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

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Originally Posted by foolscotton3 View Post
I dont think the catholic church did much grafting, its likely the roman empire adopted christian language, rather than "vise versa." Rome had a habit of being whatever it needed to be to stay in control, if the populous converted to Christianity, Rome would become the face of christ.
LOL!!!

I was paraphrasing historical accounts and documents.

Everything I mentioned is 100% already proved through historical text and document.

Seriously. You should do a study of the history of the church, from the establishment of Christianity with Jesus as the foundation to the early years afterward all the way to the spread of Christianity to Europe through Rome, past the fall of the Roman empire through branching into Catholicism and the first 5 centuries A.D. It is really fascinating. The origin of cardinals continues to crack me up personally.
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post #118 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-09-2014, 09:20 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

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Because the land is known for its evergreens, and the evergreens have always been admired by the culture that surrounds them. Anybody that claims the evergreen wasn't native to old testament the geography, to make a straw-man argument against ecumenical context could be dismissed easily, they have no knowledge of their own claims let alone little knowledge to argue another's as "fallacy."
Let me help you out here. The tree on the Lebanese flag is a Lebanese Cedar tree. Here's a picture of one. They grow up to 130 ft tall with a trunk as large in diameter as 9 ft. They can also grow with many trucks coming out of the root base.



Not one person on this thread said that evergreens did not exist in that part of the world in the time of the Old Testament.

What people did say is that the Christmas tree was not used in Judea in biblical times. The origin of what we now call the Christmas tree is Northern Europe.

Not all evergreens are Christmas trees. A Christmas tree is created by taking an evergreen, one that is conical in shape, and decorating it with lights and ornaments. The Bible says nothing at all about Christmas trees.

Further, look at that tree... it's shaped more like an oak tree than it is a conical tree that would be used for a Christmas tree. They don't make good Christmas trees.


The Lebanon Cedars are mentioned in 46 verses in the Bible... Clearly there is no problem with evergreen trees.


"Open thy doors, O Lebanon, that the fire may devour thy cedars. Howl, fir tree; for the cedar is fallen; because the mighty are spoiled: howl, O ye oaks of Bashan; for the forest of the vintage is come down." (Zechariah 11:1, 2)

"He moves his tail like a cedar; The sinews of his thighs are tightly knit." (Job 40:17)

"The priest shall take cedarwood and hyssop and scarlet stuff, and cast them into the midst of the burning of the heifer" (Numbers 19:6)

"The voice of the Lord breaks the cedars; the Lord breaks in pieces the cedars of Lebanon" (Psalm 29:5)

"The righteous flourish like the palm tree and grow like the cedar in Lebanon" (Psalm 92:12)

"I will put in the wilderness the cedar, the acacia, the myrtle, and the olive" (Isaiah 41: 19)

"Behold, I will liken you to a cedar in Lebanon, with fair branches and forest shade" (Ezekiel 31:3)

"I destroyed the Amorite before them, whose height was like the height of the cedars" (Amos 2:9)

"The trees of the Lord are watered abundantly, the cedars of Lebanon that he planted." (Psalm 104:16 NRSV)

[King Solomon made] cedar as plentiful as the sycamore-fig trees in the foothills. (1 Kings 10:27, NIV, excerpt)


Here's a list of all 46 verses.. it's a bit too long to post here

Last edited by EleGirl; 12-09-2014 at 09:25 PM.
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post #119 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-09-2014, 09:57 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

You sound fun!
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post #120 of 152 (permalink) Old 12-09-2014, 10:19 PM
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Re: Husband says no more Christmas Tree, Santa, Easter, kids upset

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If you feel comfortable deceiving your children, and marginalizing Christ in favor of traditional wives tales that promote merit rather than grace, more power to you... I would imagine anybody that speaks truth to your children about the lies you hold so sacred to the childhood experience would be condemned to death, such is the patterns of scripture, humanity will always condemn anything that stands between them and object of worship, even if that means condemning God himself.
Of course you realize that in this post you are calling several posts here liars?

You are also saying that we would condemn to death someone like you who thinks they are telling the truth.

You are also accusing us of worshiping a tree with trinkets, bunnies, colored eggs, and children's costumes.

Do you even stop to think about the nonsense you are spewing?

You are the one here making false witness about what we have said here. You are twisting our words in a very hateful manner.
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