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post #136 of 220 (permalink) Old 01-06-2014, 09:46 PM
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Re: What do you feel about homosexuality in a religious view?

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Abiogensis followed by evolution.

You mean to tell me that you understand Abiogenesis? Is this another THEORY or is this accepted throughout the scientific community as fact??

If you can disprove evolution, please do so and collect your Nobel Prize. You'd be one of the most famous people of all time. Good luck!


Evolution is a Theory that has NEVER - EVER been proven. It is spearheaded by Athiests by definition who get PAID to research and / or Teach it.

How many years have they been trying to prove it?? Hell, even a child given that information could determine that Evolotion is the biggest lie of all time!


Yes, yes, the tired old "just look at the trees" defense. Here's the thing, YOU HAVE NO PROOF. I could literally say Elvis created it all and have exactly the same amount of PROOF as you do.

Elvis Who??


God physically revealed himself before, why can't he do so to us now? If he wants us to know and love him, he should do a better job of showing up every now and then.

Again, you’re questioning the creator of the universe?? You are upset with him?? I can relate – but, it is futile.
Physically show me god? Meh, not really. Maybe just some evidence besides "just look at stuff around you" and appeals to the bible.
First you must accept that God exists and that he loves you. Then, you can see evidence of him. If you have been blinded to Him, then you cannot see His work by definition.

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post #137 of 220 (permalink) Old 01-06-2014, 10:16 PM
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Re: What do you feel about homosexuality in a religious view?

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Perhaps Elvis is God this is why it is important to separate whether God exists from who God is.

And I am I unaware of any proof for a biogenesis. Statement of faith?
I figured I should have more thoroughly explained that. Evolution - fact, with tons of evidence. Abiogensis - not fact, as far as I know, frankly I don't know were the science is on this so I guess my official stance would be "i don't know".
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post #138 of 220 (permalink) Old 01-06-2014, 10:24 PM
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Re: What do you feel about homosexuality in a religious view?

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You mean to tell me that you understand Abiogenesis? Is this another THEORY or is this accepted throughout the scientific community as fact??
Answered above. There are hypotheses, but no definitive answer as far as I know. Of course, the difference here between me and you is that I'm willing to admit I don't know, whereas you insert a god and claim knowledge.

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Evolution is a Theory that has NEVER - EVER been proven. It is spearheaded by Athiests by definition who get PAID to research and / or Teach it.

How many years have they been trying to prove it?? Hell, even a child given that information could determine that Evolotion is the biggest lie of all time!
You're so far removed from mainstream science here that I don't even know where to begin. If you're one of those people who thinks everything is a big conspiracy then there's no point in even discussing this.

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Elvis Who??
The Almighty Creator of the Universe. Prove me wrong.

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Again, you’re questioning the creator of the universe?? You are upset with him?? I can relate – but, it is futile.
I'm not upset with him at all. I don't believe he exists. I'm as mad at him as I am at Zeus or Thor.

But seriously, why doesn't he just reveal himself to us? Show up in the sky, make it clear he's god, and that way we at least all know. He's revealed himself to people before, right? Does he not want me to love and serve him and accept him into my heart?

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First you must accept that God exists and that he loves you. Then, you can see evidence of him. If you have been blinded to Him, then you cannot see His work by definition.
I was a Christian for 25 years. What was I doing wrong that whole time? When I first started doubting I spent many nights pleading with him to change my heart. Pleading. I wanted nothing more than to be able to believe. I got silence. What did I do wrong?
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post #139 of 220 (permalink) Old 01-07-2014, 11:36 AM
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Re: What do you feel about homosexuality in a religious view?

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I was a Christian for 25 years. What was I doing wrong that whole time? When I first started doubting I spent many nights pleading with him to change my heart. Pleading. I wanted nothing more than to be able to believe. I got silence. What did I do wrong?
I faced crises of faith, with many similar questions to what you asked. I found a deeper understanding of my faith, admittedly with some aspects that the mainstream church would regard as heresy. Who cares. Gotta be true to oneself.

I am not dissing the mainstream church here. I am a regular church goer, but not afraid to think critically. "When I was a child I thought as a child.."

You did nothing wrong in your crisis of faith, and once you got into the meat of our discussions I found your opinions reasoned and and the discussion interesting. Fwiw.

I am in an engineering related field. I was talking to a close friend who is medical. I mentioned your comment about the one throat to them. They just laughed and came out with a long description of how it all works, and how amazing it is. It is easy to take the amazing complexity of the human body for granted when we live with it every day.
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post #140 of 220 (permalink) Old 01-07-2014, 11:43 AM
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Re: What do you feel about homosexuality in a religious view?

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I faced crises of faith, with many similar questions to what you asked. I found a deeper understanding of my faith, admittedly with some aspects that the mainstream church would regard as heresy. Who cares. Gotta be true to oneself.

I am not dissing the mainstream church here. I am a regular church goer, but not afraid to think critically. "When I was a child I thought as a child.."

You did nothing wrong in your crisis of faith, and once you got into the meat of our discussions I found your opinions reasoned and and the discussion interesting. Fwiw.

I am in an engineering related field. I was talking to a close friend who is medical. I mentioned your comment about the one throat to them. They just laughed and came out with a long description of how it all works, and how amazing it is. It is easy to take the amazing complexity of the human body for granted when we live with it every day.
I enjoyed it all as well. Sorry if I came off like an *******.

I still think sharing a tube for breathing and eating is a terrible design.
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post #141 of 220 (permalink) Old 01-07-2014, 08:31 PM
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Re: What do you feel about homosexuality in a religious view?

Orihinally posted by hawkey
But seriously, why doesn't he just reveal himself to us? Show up in the sky, make it clear he's god, and that way we at least all know. He's revealed himself to people before, right? Does he not want me to love and serve him and accept him into my heart?

If you asked Jesus into your heart earler in life - then he will never leave - even if you deny him.


I was a Christian for 25 years. What was I doing wrong that whole time? When I first started doubting I spent many nights pleading with him to change my heart. Pleading. I wanted nothing more than to be able to believe. I got silence. What did I do wrong?[/QUOTE]


There is nothing wrong with what you are going through. I think everyone eventually has this crisis of faith (as Waza said) sooner or later. Heck, I read that Mother Theresa had crisis of faith for much of her life – but, she would not stop her mission – she would just push through it.

Here is an excerpt of what she was told by a man named Neuner - he gave her three pieces of counsel – first, there was no human cure for what she had (no feeling of Gods presence), so she shouldn’t feel personally guilty about it; second, feeling Jesus is not the only evidence of His presence, and the fact that she longed for God is a “sure sign” of His “hidden presence” in her life; and last, the feeling of absence was part of the “spiritual side” of her work for Jesus.

Mother Teresa responded to Neuner in 1961: “I can’t express in words – the gratitude I owe you for your kindness to me – for the first time in ….years – I have come to love the darkness – for I believe now that it is part of a very, very small part of Jesus’ darkness & pain on earth.”

She later wrote to Neuner, “I accept not in my feelings – but with my will, the Will of God – I accept his will,” according to TIME.

I am similar to WAZA with regards to Church. For me, I tried for years to find the perfect Church / denomination and have discovered that this does not exist. There was always something that bothered me – very long list that I won’t go into. Probably went a year one time where we never set foot in a Church because of this. But, I discovered that I missed hearing the Gospel preached, missed the fellowship, and missed the worship. I tried to just study the Bible on my own, but it just was not the same. So, we started visiting many Churches until we found the one where we felt most comfortable – for me, the Pastor had to be a great communicator – really good at explaining the Gospel, I wanted good music that was not boring, and a good Children’s programs. We did find a good Church – but, I will say, I do not agree with some of what the pastor teaches – I will take what he says in – but, if I don’t agree then so be it – I will lean my own interpretations in the end. I have come to except, Churches are comprised of leadership personnel that sin and struggle, just like me and that the other members are sinners and struggle just like me – as long as I know this, then who am I to judge these people?


PS: About the double throat design, I just don't see your point here - since we have one mouth that is dual or even triple purpose and connects to the "one tube" - unless you have a double throat (which to me would have serious design complications as well) you can't have the two tubes. To me, simple dual purpose single tube is the answer. Going to have to go with WAZA on this one.

Last edited by Aspydad; 01-07-2014 at 08:37 PM.
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post #142 of 220 (permalink) Old 01-07-2014, 09:19 PM
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Re: What do you feel about homosexuality in a religious view?

Two throats would mean relocating so things don't go through the neck, smaller tubes, collapsible tubes, or bigger neck, which might then be less flexible. It might complicate redundancy between mouth and nostrils when breathing.

Some of these variations are clearly possible....consider the dolphin. Therefore an evolutionist might ponder why land mammals are configured differently from water mammals. Does it imply that natural selection determined the single throat as the superior design?
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post #143 of 220 (permalink) Old 01-08-2014, 09:17 AM
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Re: What do you feel about homosexuality in a religious view?

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Two throats would mean relocating so things don't go through the neck, smaller tubes, collapsible tubes, or bigger neck, which might then be less flexible. It might complicate redundancy between mouth and nostrils when breathing.

Some of these variations are clearly possible....consider the dolphin. Therefore an evolutionist might ponder why land mammals are configured differently from water mammals. Does it imply that natural selection determined the single throat as the superior design?
Design requirements for mammals that go under water differ from that of land mammals. The breathing tube must be closed while underwater while at the same time the mammal must be able to use its mouth to feed underwater. Actually I don't think the designer had a choice here for the underwater mammals. Intersting that these water mammals create sound through their blow holes and can communicate. I give the designer an A+ on this design feature.
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post #144 of 220 (permalink) Old 01-08-2014, 09:52 AM
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Re: What do you feel about homosexuality in a religious view?

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If you asked Jesus into your heart earler in life - then he will never leave - even if you deny him.
Once saved, always saved. Suwheeeeeet. I'm in either way.

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PS: About the double throat design, I just don't see your point here - since we have one mouth that is dual or even triple purpose and connects to the "one tube" - unless you have a double throat (which to me would have serious design complications as well) you can't have the two tubes. To me, simple dual purpose single tube is the answer. Going to have to go with WAZA on this one.
While I would rather not turn this into a discussion about throats, you guys love the design because you have to. It HAS to be the best design, because it's what god came up with. You don't really have wiggle room. You can't admit that some other design that didn't involve us eating and breathing through the same tube would probably be better. I don't see how a perfect god couldn't come up with a solution to this. Like he made it and was thought "hmm, that's kind of a crappy deal but it's just the best I can think of."
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post #145 of 220 (permalink) Old 01-08-2014, 10:06 AM
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Re: What do you feel about homosexuality in a religious view?

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PS: About the double throat design, I just don't see your point here - since we have one mouth that is dual or even triple purpose and connects to the "one tube" - unless you have a double throat (which to me would have serious design complications as well) you can't have the two tubes. To me, simple dual purpose single tube is the answer. Going to have to go with WAZA on this one.
Dual purpose tube is what allows people to choke to death while eating.

What I want to know is what was the purpose of the appendix?!

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post #146 of 220 (permalink) Old 01-08-2014, 11:03 AM
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Re: What do you feel about homosexuality in a religious view?

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Once saved, always saved. Suwheeeeeet. I'm in either way.

Yes. However, that does not mean your life on earth will be what God wanted or that you will be given your reward in Heaven. I am not sure what the reward is - but, given the fact that we will be in Heaven forever, I am one who would like to shoot for the reward - but that’s just me. I mean we are only here maybe 70-80-90-100 years on earth if we are blessed - just a very minute period of time when compared to eternity.

While I would rather not turn this into a discussion about throats, you guys love the design because you have to. It HAS to be the best design, because it's what god came up with. You don't really have wiggle room. You can't admit that some other design that didn't involve us eating and breathing through the same tube would probably be better. I don't see how a perfect god couldn't come up with a solution to this. Like he made it and was thought "hmm, that's kind of a crappy deal but it's just the best I can think of."
So does it really matter about the optimal design anyway? If this is the design that the creator wanted, who are we to judge? We can have an opinion, but that opinion really doesn’t matter now does it? Unless you think you are a God of course, then in your own mind maybe it matters. You know what that's called? Yes, that's called PRIDE.
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post #147 of 220 (permalink) Old 01-08-2014, 11:05 AM
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Re: What do you feel about homosexuality in a religious view?

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Dual purpose tube is what allows people to choke to death while eating.

That's not a design flaw, that's called User Error.

What I want to know is what was the purpose of the appendix?!
Not a Doctor so I have no idea.
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post #148 of 220 (permalink) Old 01-08-2014, 11:10 AM
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Re: What do you feel about homosexuality in a religious view?

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Not a Doctor so I have no idea.
It has exactly zero purpose. None that they've ever found, and no impact if it is removed. But it can kill you if it bursts.
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post #149 of 220 (permalink) Old 01-08-2014, 11:24 AM
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Re: What do you feel about homosexuality in a religious view?

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So does it really matter about the optimal design anyway? If this is the design that the creator wanted, who are we to judge? We can have an opinion, but that opinion really doesn’t matter now does it? Unless you think you are a God of course, then in your own mind maybe it matters. You know what that's called? Yes, that's called PRIDE.
It matters because of all the christians who talk about how their god so perfectly and intricately designed every thing, right down to the atoms. The throat just happens to be one easy area to point to and say "yeah, this could be a whole helluva lot better." The appendix is another issue. There are many other ones.

Like I said earlier, you guys are stuck in a position where you HAVE to justify and rationalize it. You can't admit that anything is a crappy design. It HAS to be perfect. You're forced to abandon your thinking in order to make it all fit.
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post #150 of 220 (permalink) Old 01-08-2014, 12:40 PM
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Re: What do you feel about homosexuality in a religious view?

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It matters because of all the christians who talk about how their god so perfectly and intricately designed every thing, right down to the atoms. The throat just happens to be one easy area to point to and say "yeah, this could be a whole helluva lot better." The appendix is another issue. There are many other ones.

Like I said earlier, you guys are stuck in a position where you HAVE to justify and rationalize it. You can't admit that anything is a crappy design. It HAS to be perfect. You're forced to abandon your thinking in order to make it all fit.
No.

I am in a position where I design things and I know that any design is a trade off. You change something in the design, it introduces improvements and weaknesses.

I also know that when designers get together they might disagree on the tradeoffs.

Obvious example, which is better designed, a Porsche or a Toyota? Depends what your design goals were.

So who as the better breathing apparatus, a human or a fish? Depends what your design goals were.

Anyway, done to death I think. If you believe it's so bad, you have that right.
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