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post #16 of 49 (permalink) Old 01-04-2014, 09:33 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Do you hide?

I carry it around for 20+ years.

But SA's advice, both here and in pm, has been incredibly helpful.

God bless you, SA. You are really trying to help heal the world.


One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #17 of 49 (permalink) Old 01-04-2014, 01:50 PM
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Re: Do you hide?

Do you hide your sins (mistakes, shortcomings)?
Some of them yes. I am not proud of my sins they are negative.


Do you feel like you need to talk about them, in an effort to help other people avoid making the same mistakes?
I do not NEED to talk about them but if it will help others I usually do use them to try and help others



Have people held your sin against you once they found out
Most do not. Those few that did I no longer associate with.
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post #18 of 49 (permalink) Old 01-06-2014, 07:35 PM
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Re: Do you hide?

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Originally Posted by jld View Post
I carry it around for 20+ years.

But SA's advice, both here and in pm, has been incredibly helpful.

God bless you, SA. You are really trying to help heal the world
.
Awe ....the world... what a stretch ! .... a few friendly people on TAM.... my pleasure...

Did you ever see this movie Jld... Seabiscuit ...

About 3 men & a horse... They're all lost in some way...Owner lost a son, Trainer is more comfortable with Horses over people...the Jockey - been banged around , beat up countless times, left by his parents, wounded in spirit & body ....their paths cross. They use their natural skills & talents to overcome their own demons. In the process, they become a legendary racing team. The Horse was against the odds, he slept too much, he had bad knees, the jockey was half blind, his leg shattered.... very inspiring True story... I have the book...

I guess I just always had a for the Underdogs... but don't most of us ??

Kinda like what the horse Trainer said here >>



....
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post #19 of 49 (permalink) Old 01-06-2014, 08:14 PM
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Re: Do you hide?

Ok.. when you get that book... you will read some of this stuff..
A little about SHAME...

1. We all have it..it's universal...the only people who don't experience shame lack the capability for empathy & human connection....

2. We're all afraid to talk about shame...

3. The less we talk about it, the more control it has over our lives.

Shame is the intensely painful feeling or experience of believing that we are flawed & therefore unworthy of love and belonging.

We don't have to experience shame to be paralyzed by it -the fear of being perceived as unworthy is enough to force us to silence our stories.

Shame needs 3 things to grow out of control...secrecy, silence and judgement...When something shaming happens & we keep it locked up, it festers & grows.. We need to share our stories.. BUT ONLY WITH THOSE WHO HAVE EARNED THE RIGHT TO HEAR OUR STORY. ....how very important to not throw our pearls before swine - so to speak... you've heard that expression I am sure.



Then she talks about the importance of "Shame Resilience"..

Some points there >> we come to recognize what triggers our shame, understanding the expectations of perfection is flawed, that being imperfect does not = inadequate.....wisdom to only share with those we trust (who has earned that trust)....and when these people speak of shame, they use the word SHAME....they talk about how they are feeling..and ask for what they need...



Shame is about who we are, and Guilt is about our behaviors.. we feel guilty when we hold up something we've done or failed to do against the kind of person we want to be. It's an uncomfortable feeling. but one that is Necessary...
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post #20 of 49 (permalink) Old 01-06-2014, 08:40 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Do you hide?

That post is so beautiful, SA. It's right up there with the Jesus post you did yesterday. You are really reading the right books!

I was surprised this thread did not get more responses. I cannot be the only person out there dealing with guilt and shame. And honestly, the advice you have given me is so healing. I really cannot thank you enough.

I hope your posts give other people the guidance and comfort they have given me.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #21 of 49 (permalink) Old 01-07-2014, 02:36 AM
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Re: Do you hide?

Good thoughts on shame...as it is generally immobilizing...and when shame has power over us in our lives, it is crushing, and we find alternate plans to escape pain and accept counterfeit scenarios for ourselves because we think we don't deserve better.

First evidence that shame rules your life...is that when you try to live and do something different...you get reminded by something in the past that tries to rob you of the joy of doing something new.
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post #22 of 49 (permalink) Old 01-07-2014, 07:40 AM
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Re: Do you hide?

Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerSelf View Post
Good thoughts on shame...as it is generally immobilizing...and when shame has power over us in our lives, it is crushing, and we find alternate plans to escape pain and accept counterfeit scenarios for ourselves because we think we don't deserve better.

First evidence that shame rules your life...is that when you try to live and do something different...you get reminded by something in the past that tries to rob you of the joy of doing something new.
I can certainly attest to this. It does affect my physical health as well as my mental health. It's all consuming and truly, a death sentence. It's one of the most slow, tortuous deaths imaginable, since we do it to ourselves and it takes a long time to kill yourself with shame and disgrace. Most assuredly, you can die from it.

"I'm significant!! Screamed the dust speck." - Bill Watterson

"And this, too, shall pass away."
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post #23 of 49 (permalink) Old 01-07-2014, 08:07 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Do you hide?

Whew! That was an intense last sentence, 2ntnuf. I hope we are not going to die from it here!

But yes, it does take a long time to get over shame. It takes so much love and positive reinforcement. And time.

I think this site is healing, though. We start to realize that everyone else is carrying guilt and shame, too. We are all imperfect. The trick is for people to be open and honest. That is when we learn from each other.

Thanks for your posts, 2ntnuf and FS.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #24 of 49 (permalink) Old 01-07-2014, 08:11 AM
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Re: Do you hide?

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Originally Posted by FormerSelf View Post
Good thoughts on shame...as it is generally immobilizing...and when shame has power over us in our lives, it is crushing, and we find alternate plans to escape pain and accept counterfeit scenarios for ourselves because we think we don't deserve better.
On this note & taken from a post on my Vulnerability thread... (again all of this taken from The Gifts of Imperfection- Brene Brown's wisdom, she is known as the "Shame Researcher")....

She says ...
Quote:
"After collecting thousands of stories , I'm willing to call this a FACT: A deep sense of love and belonging is an irreducible need of all women, men and children. We are biologically, cognitively, physically, and spiritually wired to love , to be loved, and to belong.

When these needs are not met, we don't function as we were meant to. We break. We fall apart. We NUMB...We ache...We hurt others. We get sick.

There are certainly other causes of illness, numbing and hurt, but the absence of love and belonging will always lead to suffering.
There is a section about NUMBING...she spend several hundred interviews trying to better understand the consequences of NUMBING & how "taking the edge off" behaviors is related to addiction...this is what she learned...

Quote:
1. Most of us engage in behaviors (consciously or not) that help us to numb and take the edge of off vulnerability, pain, and discomfort.

2. Addiction can be described as chronically & compulsively numbing and taking the edge off of feelings..

3. We cannot selectively numb emotions.. When we numb the painful emotions, we also numb the positive emotions.
Another fine point she made was >>

Quote:
"Recognizing and leaning into the discomfort of vulnerability teaches us how to live with JOY, Gratitude, and Grace... I'm also learning that the uncomfortable and scary learning requires both spirit and RESILIENCE.
>> Resilience is that ineffable quality that allows some people to be knocked down by life and come back stronger than ever. Rather than letting failure overcome them and drain their resolve, they find a way to rise from the ashes. Psychologists have identified some of the factors that make someone resilient, among them a positive attitude, optimism, the ability to regulate emotions, and the ability to see failure as a form of helpful feedback. Even after a misfortune, blessed with such an outlook, resilient people are able to change course and soldier on.
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post #25 of 49 (permalink) Old 01-07-2014, 08:26 AM
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Re: Do you hide?

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Originally Posted by jld View Post
Whew! That was an intense last sentence, 2ntnuf. I hope we are not going to die from it here!

But yes, it does take a long time to get over shame. It takes so much love and positive reinforcement. And time.

I think this site is healing, though. We start to realize that everyone else is carrying guilt and shame, too. We are all imperfect. The trick is for people to be open and honest. That is when we learn from each other.

Thanks for your posts, 2ntnuf and FS.
Well, here is what has happened to me since all of this started. Now, mind you, I did have some issues already, but they have been intensified by these feelings.

-Constant high blood pressure
-Aged in face and body-I have much more gray in my beard and the skin of my face and around my eyes has drooped. I look 10 or more years older than I am. No kidding. Most think I am in my 60's.
-I have had, what I believe to be a heart attack. Haven't been able to get a stress test.
-My digestion has changed. I must eat better to feel better. This normally is more frequent in men at least ten years older, but usually fifteen
-I have pain in my pancreas and liver. My doctor checked me recently. I do not drink or do drugs, although, I have been accused of being addicted to meth, it is not true. I never purchased any of it or did anything. Years and years ago, I did it in the form of what was like a dietary aid looking capsule. I was not addicted to it, but did it a few times over about a year or two. I've never knowingly done it since. Anytime I was asked about it, I said, "NO".
-I do not expect to be alive at 60. I am 51.
-my eyesight is poor
-my hearing is going


I do feel like this is a big long, "crying", list, but it is worth mentioning for others to know that it does affect a person negatively. I don't believe I will recover. I think it's just a matter of time. I've never felt the physical and emotional pain that I did at breakup. I wish I could elaborate on what I think is going on, but I'm afraid I would be sued. I have no proof, only reasonable conclusions from what I have read and folks who have been there.


"I'm significant!! Screamed the dust speck." - Bill Watterson

"And this, too, shall pass away."
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post #26 of 49 (permalink) Old 01-07-2014, 08:56 AM
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Re: Do you hide?

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Originally Posted by 2ntnuf View Post
I scatter them around the site because I don't really have a thread about what happened. I'm not really sure what happened. I know parts. I know some things I've been accused of doing and some of them are correct. Some are not. Some, I don't know for sure. I can't remember. I'd have to see proof to fully believe I did them.
What does this mean, you have episodes in your life where you don't have memory?

Quote:
Most people I've encountered have held them against me. Some have not. Those are the people I tend to stick with.
None of us would want to hang with people who act superior and we feel judged , belittled and put down... I can understand constructive criticism when we are hurting ourselves & others though.. but even this has to be done in the right spirit...a spirit of caring for that individual.

But after we've attempted to change our ways, make amends... be that better person... no one would want to hang with someone who is going to throw it back in our faces.. we need to be around "encouragers" who can see the best in us, ..be our friend, stand beside us....

I'll never forget this one man who entered our Church yrs ago, his whole life he was a DRUNK... he was messed up, rough, biker. I think a Bouncer for Rock groups for a time...he had many demons in his past... but something led him there...can't remember the story now...but I just loved this guy...I was very touched with the changes in his life... he was so damn Humble... very friendly... he was so excited about coming out of the darkness... almost in a child-like way....so Thankful... and so open about it.... He reminded me of the "Parable of the Prodigal son" story... . I had many conversations with him... then one day ....he DIED.. suddenly...I missed his presence there ...just one of those that stand out in my memory.



I am sure there was some people who looked at him like -what is he doing here, he is embarrassing...or look where he came from... I didn't do that, I was very touched by how he had changed his life...that man needed encouragers to not judge his past.. but lift him up ....and give hope for making a new life..

Quote:
It has been healing to write them out and help others. But, it would be more healing to have proof in hand, and be able to discuss what I supposedly did. If I did it, I need to make amends and correct my behavior, so it doesn't happen again.
If you have no memory, let's say from Drinking (just as an example, I don't know your story).....who are the people accusing you - do you trust THEM/ their character to be honest... or do you feel they have ulterior motives, something to gain from making it sound worse than it was??
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post #27 of 49 (permalink) Old 01-07-2014, 09:18 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Do you hide?

2ntnuf, do you drink or smoke? If you can quit, that can slow down the aging process. Or at least the look of it.

And, please don't just disregard this, consider looking into a low-fat vegan diet. It works almost immediately for lowering blood pressure, healing heart disease, healing type 2 diabetes, and many others. I think it is one of life's truths. I cannot express enough gratitude for it.

Oh, 2ntnuf. It sounds like you have really had a hard time. Please listen to SA's wise advice. Her questions can really provoke thinking and healing in your heart. And I really hope for healing for you.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #28 of 49 (permalink) Old 01-07-2014, 09:30 AM
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Re: Do you hide?

Quote:
2ntnuf said:
-Constant high blood pressure
-Aged in face and body-I have much more gray in my beard and the skin of my face and around my eyes has drooped. I look 10 or more years older than I am. No kidding. Most think I am in my 60's.
-I have had, what I believe to be a heart attack. Haven't been able to get a stress test.
-My digestion has changed. I must eat better to feel better. This normally is more frequent in men at least ten years older, but usually fifteen
-I have pain in my pancreas and liver. My doctor checked me recently. I do not drink or do drugs, although, I have been accused of being addicted to meth, it is not true. I never purchased any of it or did anything. Years and years ago, I did it in the form of what was like a dietary aid looking capsule. I was not addicted to it, but did it a few times over about a year or two. I've never knowingly done it since. Anytime I was asked about it, I said, "NO".
-I do not expect to be alive at 60. I am 51.
-my eyesight is poor
-my hearing is going
Everything you have listed here are serious health concerns........
How can these HURT anyone else? I can not relate or understand how someone is holding things against you... over health issues...what you say about trying some capsule form of meth a few times over a year - many yrs ago... is this the time frame you have the lapse of memory - where accusations have been made or is this BEFORE you even met this person who -you worry may attempt to "sue you"... a lot going on there.
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post #29 of 49 (permalink) Old 01-07-2014, 11:44 AM
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Re: Do you hide?

Nothing yet? I'll check back later. It's quite a huge amount of information to digest. I'll delete once there is a response or a request by, jld. No problem.



Quote:
what you say about trying some capsule form of meth a few times over a year - many yrs ago... is this the time frame you have the lapse of memory - where accusations have been made or is this BEFORE you even met this person who -you worry may attempt to "sue you"... a lot going on there.
No, that was more than twenty years before I met x2. It was a non-issue when I met x2.

"I'm significant!! Screamed the dust speck." - Bill Watterson

"And this, too, shall pass away."

Last edited by 2ntnuf; 01-07-2014 at 12:23 PM.
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post #30 of 49 (permalink) Old 01-07-2014, 12:26 PM
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Re: Do you hide?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jld View Post
2ntnuf, do you drink or smoke? If you can quit, that can slow down the aging process. Or at least the look of it.

And, please don't just disregard this, consider looking into a low-fat vegan diet. It works almost immediately for lowering blood pressure, healing heart disease, healing type 2 diabetes, and many others. I think it is one of life's truths. I cannot express enough gratitude for it.

Oh, 2ntnuf. It sounds like you have really had a hard time. Please listen to SA's wise advice. Her questions can really provoke thinking and healing in your heart. And I really hope for healing for you.
I agree with you. I do not drink. I do smoke. It's a terrible addiction and I need to quit.

This aging I've mentioned is what has happened in the last........a little less than three years. It came upon me suddenly, after all of the crap I went through.

"I'm significant!! Screamed the dust speck." - Bill Watterson

"And this, too, shall pass away."
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