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post #16 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-29-2014, 09:31 AM
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Re: Why do you think people were drawn to Jesus?

Well, it's true.

Not sure why that was so funny though I am glad I could make you laugh. Lol

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post #17 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-29-2014, 09:32 AM
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Re: Why do you think people were drawn to Jesus?

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Why? Who knows.

That was an apocalyptic time they were living in so I imagine that Jesus coming along to preach of hope was a big factor in it. The Jews were getting shuffled around to and fro and people always want something good to hear.

I imagine he was very charismatic but w/o having lived in the time, it's hard to say what he was like, etc.

Nonetheless, he started a movement that generated a huge following.

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"And this, too, shall pass away."
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post #18 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-29-2014, 09:37 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Why do you think people were drawn to Jesus?

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Well, it's true.

Not sure why that was so funny though I am glad I could make you laugh. Lol
I have just thought the same thing so many times about the Virgin Mary. Like she was born in Germany, and not Israel!

All the nativity scenes around here (including the one from my childhood, which is labeled Made in West Germany, lol) have her a blue-eyed blonde! Lol!

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #19 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-29-2014, 09:42 AM
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Re: Why do you think people were drawn to Jesus?

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I have to say this though... one my husband does not like....the widow & the 2 mites....anytime he hears this, he gets the idea God expects us to starve and give our last penny, like we should live on the streets like Paupers/ Hare Krishna's hanging at airports or something...... he rarely comes to church with me & when he does, it's like a running Joke that the widow & her penny will be in the sermon...
I have a different take on that. Jesus just got through tearing into the religious leadership for, among other things, taking advantage of widows, to the point of seizing their houses. Widows, and orphans, were the most vulnerable people in society at that time, and Jesus made a point of saying that we needed to look out for them and help them.

He then mentioned the widow and her two last copper coins. Unlike other situations, he didn't praise her faith or anything of the sort, he just made a factual statement that she relatively gave far more than the rich.

To me, he was pointedly commenting and condemning a system where the poorest of the poor were made to feel obligated to give everything they had, while the rich still coasted.

I have a tough time spiritually. I find huge Truth in the words of Jesus, but there's so much I can't bring myself to buy into.

I can't wrap my head around God's requirement (and I'm tempted to put it into quotes) that blood be shed for our sins, when God could have, had He chose to do so, prevented sin from ever entering into the world in the first place.

Free will. Great. Choose poorly and you'll spend all eternity in a redhot cauldron of boiling urine. I can't and won't buy that, and unfortunately Jesus does touch upon eternal punishment, together with the concept that the only way to heaven is through him. Sorry folks in Papua New Guinea who are wholly ignorant of the tribe two valleys over, let alone Jesus.

But in spite of some hard-core reservations there is, like I said, a huge Truth there. Just wish I could figure it all out.

Feels good to vent about it, and please noone take this as an attack on their faith. I feel very strongly about leaving people to their beliefs, and just as strongly about people who attack those beliefs. I'm just talking about things I struggle with, and have for a long time.
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post #20 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-29-2014, 09:47 AM
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Re: Why do you think people were drawn to Jesus?

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And don't forget about Constantine's role in Christianity, cementing it as a major religion for a country.

I like to think that Jesus was a cool cat. I think I would have quite liked him. I do not imagine he was blonde and blue-eyed like those depictions show over and over again. I bet he had lovely caramel skin and was tall (in my mind, anyway).
I think he was a short Jewish guy with black hair and dark brown eyes. I think his skin was possibly olive colored if not caramel. I think his personality was calm, yet strong and not afraid of conflict. I believe he chose his battles wisely and only let things go when he knew his opponent did not get the message. I believe he was not a caretaker, but a man of his own, who lived and let live, only correcting those who would hear his words and warning those who listened, but would not hear. I believe he lived on donations from secret wealthy followers and helped the "poor". I believe these poor were not limited to those without money as many believe. I believe he corrected the ruling religious authorities where they were inconsistent with the intent of the religion and the proud, wealthy authorities could not set aside their pride, prestige and power to follow what they knew in their hearts was true.

Quite an interesting person, was Jesus and, yes, I do believe he was very attractive to many, but not necessarily in appearance. There is a passage somewhere that is consistent with my thoughts on his appearance being average. His beauty was his mind and spirit, his love and forgiveness, his honor and justice, his fresh perspective(which really was not fresh, but a clarification on the original which had been distorted over time).

"I'm significant!! Screamed the dust speck." - Bill Watterson

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post #21 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-29-2014, 09:54 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Why do you think people were drawn to Jesus?

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I have a different take on that. Jesus just got through tearing into the religious leadership for, among other things, taking advantage of widows, to the point of seizing their houses. Widows, and orphans, were the most vulnerable people in society at that time, and Jesus made a point of saying that we needed to look out for them and help them.

He then mentioned the widow and her two last copper coins. Unlike other situations, he didn't praise her faith or anything of the sort, he just made a factual statement that she relatively gave far more than the rich.

To me, he was pointedly commenting and condemning a system where the poorest of the poor were made to feel obligated to give everything they had, while the rich still coasted.
We have the same problem with the rich today.

GTDad, just take what works for you from Jesus and leave the rest. I am inspired by his words, but unimpressed with religion in general. Way too much emphasis on money.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #22 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-29-2014, 10:11 AM
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Re: Why do you think people were drawn to Jesus?

The coin given by the widow wasn't a commentary on how much we should give in the sense of money. It was the meaning behind what she gave.

I don't know if this is what you said GT. I didn't quite understand.

When asked about taxes, Jesus said something like, "who's image is on the coin?" When told Caesar's, which answered a rhetorical question, he commented something like, "Give to Caesar what is his and to God what is God's." Well, what I take out of that is, God isn't so concerned with what we have here on earth, he's more concerned with how we love each other. Someone has to be wealthy and someone poor. There are many in between. That's not what God is about. He's about what we do with our wealth or lack of it. How do we treat each other?

So, when the poor woman gave and the rich gave, the comparison was on the impact on the life of the poor woman, versus the rich. While the rich gave a larger sum of money, it barely made an impact in their life, but the poor woman had to struggle to figure out how she was going to eat and pay for anything she needed, and once she did, she gave all she had. She didn't give that to make herself suffer, but because she understood that there were others who might benefit in her gift, by being shown their God and his ways, through evangelism or the purchase of sacrificial animals and candles, cloths and clothing, etc. She did not have to give any, but chose of her own free will, to help at her own great expense, others.

The message parallels Christ's sacrifice. He did not have to give his life, being beaten severely, spat on, mocked and verbally abused. He did not have to allow them to pound wrought iron spikes through(we think his wrists)hands and feet(maybe heel bones as there is evidence of this). He could have backed off and it all would have been fine and dandy. That's what the Jewish authorities were asking. Just back off and let us be in charge as has been the case for years.

Therefore, it was his choice to continue to push them to a point they had to make a decision. "Do we follow him or do we try to discredit him and get rid of him?" They chose the latter, since their pride and lack of trust that he was telling the truth, which was a great deal different than what they believed. The authorities could have chosen to throw him in prison or place him in exile. They could have asked the Romans to take him to Italy. Many things could have happened.

"I'm significant!! Screamed the dust speck." - Bill Watterson

"And this, too, shall pass away."
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post #23 of 34 (permalink) Old 01-29-2014, 10:30 AM
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Re: Why do you think people were drawn to Jesus?

Understand though, that is where forgiveness comes in the picture. God knows we cannot live up to the very high standards he set, so He gives us forgiveness, if we ask for it. That's the point of it all. He only asks each of us to do our personal best and realise we aren't perfect. Some are closer than others, but with forgiveness, we are all looked at as equal. We live within the means we have physical, emotional and mental capacity to understand. His grace, which is a gift that we cannot pay for, is what brings us to the perfection necessary for entrance into heaven, the ultimate place to live. This reward is not deserved by any human, only through forgiveness are we presented with what we think we deserve.

"I'm significant!! Screamed the dust speck." - Bill Watterson

"And this, too, shall pass away."
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post #24 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-01-2014, 08:12 AM
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Re: Why do you think people were drawn to Jesus?

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Was it his compassion . . . his truthfulness . . . his simplicity?

If you had been living in Israel at that time, what would have drawn you to him?
I don't think a lot of people were drawn to him. The majority might have thought him a novelty and many went to him for healing, but when the chips were down there was hardly anyone in his cheering section.

Even after his resurrection, there were comparatively few disciples when you look at how many lives he touched.

I think He is pretty despised today by a majority, even those that would claim Christianity do not like many of his teachings, or follow them, I am talking about clerical leaders here too.

If I was in Israel at the time He was on earth, I would have liked some of his teachings but would not have bothered to go see him.

I would have thought him a good intentioned weirdo and when He was crucified, I would have been sorry, but I would have thought "it was bound to happen".

After his resurrection and growth of the Christian faith, I would have become very curious and tried to find out more, until I too became a Christian.

I am attracted to Him because He is my God. I believe He is perfect and I love every aspect of Him.

He is the only true alpha in my book.

Thanks for the thread.
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post #25 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-01-2014, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Why do you think people were drawn to Jesus?

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He is the only true alpha in my book.


I am glad you enjoyed the thread, Conan.


One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #26 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-01-2014, 03:44 PM
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Re: Why do you think people were drawn to Jesus?

No idea. My guess is he was saying what people wanted to hear at the time.

Why are people drawn to anybody? Jim Jones comes to mind. To this day I don't understand that one.

Hook me up a new revolution, cause this one is a lie. Sat around laughing and watched the last one die.
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post #27 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-02-2014, 06:41 AM
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Re: Why do you think people were drawn to Jesus?

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I have a different take on that. Jesus just got through tearing into the religious leadership for, among other things, taking advantage of widows, to the point of seizing their houses. Widows, and orphans, were the most vulnerable people in society at that time, and Jesus made a point of saying that we needed to look out for them and help them.

He then mentioned the widow and her two last copper coins. Unlike other situations, he didn't praise her faith or anything of the sort, he just made a factual statement that she relatively gave far more than the rich.

To me, he was pointedly commenting and condemning a system where the poorest of the poor were made to feel obligated to give everything they had, while the rich still coasted.
you are definitely looking at the parable in the right light here, as it was meant ......my husband isn't......he's never cracked a Bible open...of course this is the message ...which also goes along with these scriptures too.....
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2 Corinthians 8: 14:And here is my advice about what is best for you in this matter: Last year you were the first not only to give but also to have the desire to do so. Now finish the work, so that your eager willingness to do it may be matched by your completion of it, according to your means. For if the willingness is there, the gift is acceptable according to what one has, not according to what he does not have. Our desire is not that others might be relieved while you are hard pressed, but that there might be equality. At the present time your plenty will supply what they need, so that in turn their plenty will supply what you need. Then there will be equality,”
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Gtdad said:
I have a tough time spiritually. I find huge Truth in the words of Jesus, but there's so much I can't bring myself to buy into.

I can't wrap my head around God's requirement (and I'm tempted to put it into quotes) that blood be shed for our sins, when God could have, had He chose to do so, prevented sin from ever entering into the world in the first place
.
I don't believe in the Original Sin doctrine either...neither did Pelagius in a raging Church debate against St Augustine.... I'd say Religion was like Politics back then, just cause someone won didn't make them RIGHT... but really..this reduces Jesus to just a MAN.. this is one among other reasons I can't call myself a christian!

You may enjoy this article..to give a little more understanding to some of Church history.....I tend to feel this way .. Why Pelagius was Right

Quote:
Free will. Great. Choose poorly and you'll spend all eternity in a redhot cauldron of boiling urine. I can't and won't buy that, and unfortunately Jesus does touch upon eternal punishment
Enter ...

Calvanists vs the Arminians ....





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together with the concept that the only way to heaven is through him. Sorry folks in Papua New Guinea who are wholly ignorant of the tribe two valleys over, let alone Jesus.
Christians would quote Romans for this...for those who have never heard... they will be judged by their conscience..

But what that really spells out... if true... is ANYONE WHO HAS HEARD will be judged on what was written... but I find this too stringent myself.. what if a man's whole experience was clouded by horrendous believers, maybe a Pastor Father who was a hypocrite, emotionally abused by his hands...or the Priests who molest.. anyone who grows up in a situation like this is going to turn their eyes & hearts as far from religion as one could throw..I do believe a merciful God will take every situation into consideration..

Quote:
Romans 2 .....12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.)
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But in spite of some hard-core reservations there is, like I said, a huge Truth there. Just wish I could figure it all out.
Join the crowd GTdad.. that's why I am DEIST ...

Read my post here (#24) What Church or Faith Are You? .....can you relate...

Quote:
Feels good to vent about it, and please noone take this as an attack on their faith. I feel very strongly about leaving people to their beliefs, and just as strongly about people who attack those beliefs. I'm just talking about things I struggle with, and have for a long time.
You have a good spirit about you..I feel the same... Most of my friends are Christians...they are good people..
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post #28 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-02-2014, 11:21 AM
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Re: Why do you think people were drawn to Jesus?

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No idea. My guess is he was saying what people wanted to hear at the time.
You are right you have no idea.. Jesus would not back down from anyone and some of the Pharisees and the Romans killed Him because they did not like what He said.



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Why are people drawn to anybody? Jim Jones comes to mind. To this day I don't understand that one.
J

im Jones was a child molester and a man with a very sick mind that killed little children.

The below is what Jesus said of children
:

Matthew 18
New Living Translation (NLT)
The Greatest in the Kingdom
18 About that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who is greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven?”

2 Jesus called a little child to him and put the child among them. 3 Then he said, “I tell you the truth, unless you turn from your sins and become like little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven. 4 So anyone who becomes as humble as this little child is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven.
5 “And anyone who welcomes a little child like this on my behalf[a] is welcoming me. 6 But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea.


Comparing Jim Jones to Jesus is ridiculous!
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post #29 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 09:51 AM
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Re: Why do you think people were drawn to Jesus?

I don't think Joe was meaning to be offensive. He was simply stating that people were drawn to both Jesus and Jim Jones.

That is a fact, no matter how you slice it, no matter how different they were, they both do share that similarity. That cannot be argued.

(Now that aside, my personal opinion, Jesus for the win).
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post #30 of 34 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 09:55 AM
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Re: Why do you think people were drawn to Jesus?

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You are right you have no idea.. Jesus would not back down from anyone and some of the Pharisees and the Romans killed Him because they did not like what He said.



J

im Jones was a child molester and a man with a very sick mind that killed little children.

The below is what Jesus said of children
:

Matthew 18
New Living Translation (NLT)
The Greatest in the Kingdom
18 About that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who is greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven?”

2 Jesus called a little child to him and put the child among them. 3 Then he said, “I tell you the truth, unless you turn from your sins and become like little children, you will never get into the Kingdom of Heaven. 4 So anyone who becomes as humble as this little child is the greatest in the Kingdom of Heaven.
5 “And anyone who welcomes a little child like this on my behalf[a] is welcoming me. 6 But if you cause one of these little ones who trusts in me to fall into sin, it would be better for you to have a large millstone tied around your neck and be drowned in the depths of the sea.


Comparing Jim Jones to Jesus is ridiculous!
Didn't mean to hit a nerve guy. The question is why were people drawn to him. Why are people drawn to anybody? BTW Bible quotes do nothing for me. The church left a sour taste in my mouth long ago.

Hook me up a new revolution, cause this one is a lie. Sat around laughing and watched the last one die.

Last edited by joe kidd; 02-06-2014 at 10:00 AM.
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