Religious Beliefs and Divorce - Page 2 - Talk About Marriage
Relationships and Spirituality The place to look for faith based solutions.

User Tag List

 24Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
post #16 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-26-2014, 10:40 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 380
Re: Religious Beliefs and Divorce

Quote:
Originally Posted by over20 View Post
Marriage was created by God in the Garden of Eden before the fall of Man. It is a sacred covenant. Marriage is God's idea. A physical, emotional and spiritual union between a man and a woman. I will add I am a Christian that believes the Word of God is holy, without sin.
More from god's sacred idea of marriage....

" If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives."

LOL

hawkeye is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #17 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-26-2014, 11:03 AM
Member
 
Jellybeans's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 20,606
Re: Religious Beliefs and Divorce

Quote:
Originally Posted by mxpx4182 View Post
How have your religious beliefs effected your opinions on divorce?
Not that I plan on it, but if I ever do remarry, it will not be in the church or get a "blessing." Simply contracts. Romantic, yeah?
Jellybeans is offline  
post #18 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-26-2014, 02:32 PM
Member
 
COGypsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 1,683
Re: Religious Beliefs and Divorce

Quote:
Originally Posted by over20 View Post
the Word of God is holy, without sin.
How can words sin? Wouldn't all words be without sin? They're just bundles of letters. How they may be interpreted puts the "sin" on the reader or the writer, but words.....not sentient enough to sin.
COGypsy is offline  
 
post #19 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-26-2014, 02:35 PM
Member
 
mablenc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Danvers State Insane Asylum
Posts: 9,963
Re: Religious Beliefs and Divorce

I mean no offense to anyone but, it remined me of what my MIL says, "it's one thing to be a Christian, it's another thing to be a doormat."
mablenc is offline  
post #20 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-26-2014, 04:49 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Obamastan
Posts: 5,626
Re: Religious Beliefs and Divorce

Quote:
Originally Posted by over20 View Post
Marriage was created by God in the Garden of Eden before the fall of Man. It is a sacred covenant. Marriage is God's idea. A physical, emotional and spiritual union between a man and a woman. I will add I am a Christian that believes the Word of God is holy, without sin.
I've never read the words marriage, husband, wife, or marry in the Genesis account of Adam and Eve. However, it is completely wrong to state that there was no religious aspect to marriage prior to the 12th century. The Jewish marriage rites of first century Judea were referred to repeatedly by Jesus in his teachings and the Romans had wedding ceremonies that included religion.

What is relatively new about marriage is the involvement of the government.
Machiavelli is offline  
post #21 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-26-2014, 05:33 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Obamastan
Posts: 5,626
Re: Religious Beliefs and Divorce

Quote:
Originally Posted by arbitrator View Post
Sexual Immorality or Infidelity- Matthew 5:32
Abandonment of Spouse or Children- 1 Corinthians 7:15
Physical/Emotional Abuse of Spouse or Child- 1 Corinthians 4:6


I might add that these are the generally accepted reasons for a divorce, at least in the United Methodist Church.
The first two were traditional to Protestants. You might want to double check I COR 4:6.

The English Puritans also considered failure to put out as cause for divorce for both men and women, since they were failing to uphold Paul's marriage directives. People like Sir Thomas More, RCC chancellor for Henry VIII considered the Puritans' interest in marital passion to be hugely wrong, since you really were not supposed to have sexual passion within your marriage; that was supposed to be reserved for one's mistresses.

What almost everyone fails to remember, and some deliberately deny, is that at the time of Christ people were free to practice their traditional marriage customs so long as they did not hold Roman citizenship, which the vast majority of Jews did not hold. The Jews of Judea, as did their Hebrew forebears, practiced polygyny. There was no expectation that a man would limit himself to one woman, whether he was married or not. That really puts a very different spin on things from what the average modern gets when he reads and imagines modern attitudes to marriage among these people.
Machiavelli is offline  
post #22 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-26-2014, 08:31 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 5,022
Re: Religious Beliefs and Divorce

Quote:
Originally Posted by Machiavelli View Post
I've never read the words marriage, husband, wife, or marry in the Genesis account of Adam and Eve. However, it is completely wrong to state that there was no religious aspect to marriage prior to the 12th century. The Jewish marriage rites of first century Judea were referred to repeatedly by Jesus in his teachings and the Romans had wedding ceremonies that included religion.

What is relatively new about marriage is the involvement of the government.
"But for Adam no suitable helper was found. So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep and while he was sleeping he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh. Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. The man said, This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh, she shall be called woman, for she was taken out of man. For this reason a MAN will leave his father and mother and be UNITED to his WIFE and they will become ONE flesh. The man and his wife were both naked and felt no shame."

Genesis 2 :20 b-25.

This is the very first marriage. Marriage is a UNION. I think it also significant that God did not take a bone from the foot of Adam (man ruling over woman) or skull of Adam (woman ruling over man). God took bone from a rib, close to the heart area and mid section of man, representing equality in importance but different in function...the beautiful balance between husbands and wives.

On a different note the Song of Songs is a whole book written about King Solomon and his new bride and the early days of their marriage....very explicit and romantic . Also reinforcing the beautiful bond one man and one woman should have with each other created by our very loving Maker
over20 is offline  
post #23 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-26-2014, 08:35 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 5,022
Re: Religious Beliefs and Divorce

Quote:
Originally Posted by COGypsy View Post
How can words sin? Wouldn't all words be without sin? They're just bundles of letters. How they may be interpreted puts the "sin" on the reader or the writer, but words.....not sentient enough to sin.
I am sorry, I didn't express myself correctly.....I meant that because Holy Scripture is God's Book of Love to us, written by men (that God called), but inspired (God-Breathed) by him it is without error.
over20 is offline  
post #24 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-26-2014, 08:50 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 5,022
Re: Religious Beliefs and Divorce

Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkeye View Post
More from god's sacred idea of marriage....

" If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay her father fifty shekels[a] of silver. He must marry the young woman, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives."

LOL
You are right it does not seem right. It's actually twisted. Our HUMAN mind cannot see the positive in this. The whole book of Deuteronomy, where you got that verse, Deut 22:28:29, is God trying to purge ALL evil from the children of Israel. God order's the man to NOT dishonor the virgin he raped ANY FURTHER by sending her back to her fathers house. God was holding the man ACCOUNTABLE for his actions by NOT allowing divorce from her. God was also protecting the virgin's honor by commanding marriage. No other man would ever have married that woman because she was damaged.

If we look at Deut 24:5, we read how God wants a recently married husband to be exempt from war for one year so he can stay home and be with his wife.

"If a man has recently married, he must not be sent to war or have any other duty laid on him. For one year he is to be free to stay at home and bring happiness to the wife he has married"

God is good!
over20 is offline  
post #25 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-26-2014, 11:57 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 564
Re: Religious Beliefs and Divorce

Quote:
Originally Posted by mablenc View Post
I mean no offense to anyone but, it remined me of what my MIL says, "it's one thing to be a Christian, it's another thing to be a doormat."
wow, I love that!! I am a Christian, but I suppose not overly conservative... whatever that means. My faith does play somewhat of a role in my views on divorce, but it's not the main reason. I guess it's both a faith thing and a moral thing, more that I'm trying to honor my vows of "for better or worse" by trying everything I can before giving up. It was a promise made, one that can be made whether you are religious or an atheist, and I want to try my best to keep that promise.

Adeline is offline  
post #26 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-27-2014, 12:16 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Obamastan
Posts: 5,626
Re: Religious Beliefs and Divorce

Quote:
Originally Posted by over20 View Post
"But for Adam no suitable helper was found. So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep and while he was sleeping he took one of the man's ribs and closed up the place with flesh. Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man. The man said, This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh, she shall be called woman, for she was taken out of man. For this reason a MAN will leave his father and mother and be UNITED to his WIFE and they will become ONE flesh. The man and his wife were both naked and felt no shame."

Genesis 2 :20 b-25.
There is no biblical Hebrew word for "wife." It actually says "his woman." בְּאִשְׁתֹּו

Becoming one flesh is coitus.


Quote:
Originally Posted by over20 View Post
This is the very first marriage. Marriage is a UNION. I think it also significant that God did not take a bone from the foot of Adam (man ruling over woman) or skull of Adam (woman ruling over man). God took bone from a rib, close to the heart area and mid section of man, representing equality in importance but different in function...the beautiful balance between husbands and wives.
You're adding a lot of commentary to the text.

Quote:
Originally Posted by over20 View Post
On a different note the Song of Songs is a whole book written about King Solomon and his new bride and the early days of their marriage....very explicit and romantic . Also reinforcing the beautiful bond one man and one woman should have with each other created by our very loving Maker
Yes, she was one of many. Solomon was a very busy man.
Machiavelli is offline  
post #27 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-27-2014, 12:35 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 5,022
Re: Religious Beliefs and Divorce

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ntnuf View Post
I have a feeling that this guy that rapes her will be taken care of by her family. He will be shamed and treated poorly. He will have married a woman he does not respect. If he beat her or committed adultery, he would be subject to punishment. It's not a win for her or him. I'm not sure I agree or understand God's thoughts there, but why would I understand God?
The rapist is NOT taken care of by the family. On the contrary the rapist has to PAY the father a certain amount of silver for his crime! Highly unusual for the times! The new bride would have a brought a dowry. Deut 22:28-29.

Do you understand though God is establishing a brand NEW moral compass amongst the Israelite's??? It is not ideal or romantic to our human minds.....but to God, He knows what he is doing with His creation.

Thank you for responding....I know it is very confusing....The whole book of Deuteronomy is a rule book God gave to Moses and his new Elders leaving Egypt to the promise Land..God is trying to PURGE evil amongst His people. God is holding the rapist ACCOUNTABLE for his ACTIONS. The rapist has to pay the father of the woman off and has to marry the woman he raped and CANNOT divorce her, meaning you screwed up, pay off the debt and make amends to the woman you hurt for the rest of your life.....

If we read above in Deut 22:25-27..."But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall DIE. Do NOTHING to the girl, she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders his neighbor, for the man found the girl out in the country and though the betrothed girl screamed there was no one to rescue her."

God is very fair and merciful....

Last edited by over20; 01-27-2014 at 12:42 AM.
over20 is offline  
post #28 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-27-2014, 12:53 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Obamastan
Posts: 5,626
Re: Religious Beliefs and Divorce

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ntnuf View Post
I have a feeling that this guy that rapes her will be taken care of by her family. He will be shamed and treated poorly. He will have married a woman he does not respect. If he beat her or committed adultery, he would be subject to punishment. It's not a win for her or him. I'm not sure I agree or understand God's thoughts there, but why would I understand God?
While the translation of וְשָׁכַ֣ב in Deut 22:28 is "rape," it's actually "to lie with" and the passage does not include force וְהֶחֱזִֽיק־ like Deut 22:25 which indicates forcible rape. It's possibly a restatement of the seduction rule from Exodus 22:16, which uses the exact same word וְשָׁכַ֣ב but gives it the straight reading of "to lie with." My guess is the translators got the idea to call this rape from the "lay hold" וּתְפָשָׂ֖הּ but it certainly doesn't match the usual punishment for rape given elsewhere in the same passage. The reading is almost the same as the seduction rule, as well, but it adds "no divorce" and omits the father's option to cancel the wedding and keep the bride price.

Also, a couple of things related to the time and place: in ancient Israel girls and boys were married at or even shortly before puberty. The ancients didn't wait around for nature to take its course and pop out random offspring, so there were not going to be large swarms of pubescent virgins wandering around unchaperoned to be seduced or raped, since they were already betrothed or married.
Machiavelli is offline  
post #29 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-27-2014, 01:01 AM
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Michigan
Posts: 5,022
Re: Religious Beliefs and Divorce

Quote:
Originally Posted by Machiavelli View Post
There is no biblical Hebrew word for "wife." It actually says "his woman." בְּאִשְׁתֹּו

Becoming one flesh is coitus.




You're adding a lot of commentary to the text.



Yes, she was one of many. Solomon was a very busy man.
Are you a pastor?

Are you a Christian...Father/Son/Holy Spirit...the 3 in 1...Christ is your Redeemer?
over20 is offline  
post #30 of 71 (permalink) Old 01-27-2014, 01:04 AM
Moderator
 
Coffee Amore's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: At the local coffee shop
Posts: 3,141
Re: Religious Beliefs and Divorce

Quote:
Originally Posted by over20 View Post

Thank you for responding....I know it is very confusing....The whole book of Deuteronomy is a rule book God gave to Moses and his new Elders leaving Egypt to the promise Land..God is trying to PURGE evil amongst His people. God is holding the rapist ACCOUNTABLE for his ACTIONS. The rapist has to pay the father of the woman off and has to marry the woman he raped and CANNOT divorce her, meaning you screwed up, pay off the debt and make amends to the woman you hurt for the rest of your life.....

If we read above in Deut 22:25-27..."But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall DIE. Do NOTHING to the girl, she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders his neighbor, for the man found the girl out in the country and though the betrothed girl screamed there was no one to rescue her."

God is very fair and merciful....
Being married to your rapist isn't very fair or merciful to the victim of the rape.
Coffee Amore is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Tags
bible, christianity, divorce, religion

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on Talk About Marriage, you must first register. Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

Important! Your username will be visible to the public next to anything you post and could show up in search engines like Google. If you are concerned about anonymity, PLEASE choose a username that will not be recognizable to anyone you know.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in









Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
One Spouse Changes Religious Beliefs Student Relationships and Spirituality 20 09-22-2013 12:42 PM
anyone else stuck to a failed marriage due to religious beliefs? wild_irish_rose Relationships and Spirituality 35 02-28-2012 11:19 AM
Religious Beliefs? Alex_Fider The Social Spot 32 05-05-2011 02:24 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome