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post #31 of 111 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 08:54 AM
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Re: Am I a sinner?

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Originally Posted by Lovable Resin View Post
Thank you all for the replies. I am sorry if my posts came off as being vague which was not my intention at all. I am so sorry about that. This is just so hard for me to process through and if you add to that my inexperience with these things. Forgive me if I upset anyone.

I guess the description of us rubbing against each other is the most accurate and the end result being an orgasm. From her trembling breathing and voices she made I guess she experienced similar feelings as me. I am ashamed to admit that while the feeling was similar I most likely have not ever had an orgasm while being intimate with my husband. At least not that I remember.

All this talk about gays and bi-sexuals and normal behavior is so confusing. I was told that gays go to hell as a child unless they go to therapy to get cured. I am afraid to tell about this to anyone least my husband as he will surely leave me if he thinks I am not normal.
Your husband does eventually have to know, LR. But my first concern is for your safety.

Does your husband have any history of violent behavior? Do you think he may become violent when you tell him?

I just do not want your safety compromised. We would all feel terrible if you got beat up, or kicked out in the cold in the middle of winter.

And your sil is involved here, too. We do not want any of those things to happen to her, either.

I think it would be wise for you to get real life secular counsel before anything is revealed. Professionals, maybe even a social worker at a women's shelter, know more about this than I do.

We can talk very authoritatively here, but not one of us is in your shoes. You need to decide what your safety risk is, and keep it in mind as you prepare to face what has been revealed to you.


One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #32 of 111 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 09:03 AM
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Re: Am I a sinner?

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Originally Posted by Lovable Resin View Post
Thank you all for the replies. I am sorry if my posts came off as being vague which was not my intention at all. I am so sorry about that. This is just so hard for me to process through and if you add to that my inexperience with these things. Forgive me if I upset anyone.

I guess the description of us rubbing against each other is the most accurate and the end result being an orgasm. From her trembling breathing and voices she made I guess she experienced similar feelings as me. I am ashamed to admit that while the feeling was similar I most likely have not ever had an orgasm while being intimate with my husband. At least not that I remember.

All this talk about gays and bi-sexuals and normal behavior is so confusing. I was told that gays go to hell as a child unless they go to therapy to get cured. I am afraid to tell about this to anyone least my husband as he will surely leave me if he thinks I am not normal.
I think the back story, as JellyBeans points out, is going to be helpful to understand better.

I'm not a fundamentalist Christian. I do understand human sexuality though. Homosexuality and bisexuality are NOT sins! Let's clear that up right now! One cannot be "cured" from their sexual orientation anymore than a right handed person can be "cured" to write with their left hand!

If you look at the scale of human sexuality below, most people fall into the 1-5 range. That's MOST people! Which means MOST people do have, under certain circumstances, some sexual attraction to the same sex.


Quote:
The Kinsey scale ranges from 0, for those who would identify themselves as exclusively heterosexual with no experience with or desire for sexual activity with their same sex, to 6, for those who would identify themselves as exclusively homosexual with no experience with or desire for sexual activity with those of the opposite sex, and 1-5 for those who would identify themselves with varying levels of desire for sexual activity with either sex, including "incidental" or "occasional" desire for sexual activity with the same sex.[6]

Rating Description
0 Exclusively heterosexual
1 Predominantly heterosexual, only incidentally homosexual
2 Predominantly heterosexual, but more than incidentally homosexual
3 Equally heterosexual and homosexual
4 Predominantly homosexual, but more than incidentally heterosexual
5 Predominantly homosexual, only incidentally heterosexual

6 Exclusively homosexual
X No socio-sexual contacts or reactions
From what you briefly explained, it sounds as though you have a close personal and emotional connection with your SIL. You two did not plan the sexual encounter, at least not overtly, but the circumstances of being in bed together in the middle of the night led to a lesbian experience.

Unfortunately, you are a married woman and as such, all sexual experiences with person other than your husband would be considered infidelity.

You have some soul searching to do. Because you started of completely ignorant of your sexuality, you're not really sure if predominant heterosexuality is your actual orientation. Considering you've never enjoyed sex with your husband and haven't orgasmed with him, but did so easily with your SIL...that needs some thinking and processing.

Doubly unfortunate, you are surrounded by fundamentalists who will not encourage you to openly and honestly gain an understanding of your sexual orientation. You, my girl, are stuck between a rock and a hard place. You have people like over20 who takes about satan tempting you then you have people like me, who do not believe in a satan and has to hold in a derisive laugh when that name is called upon to explain behavioral things that are uncomfortable.

So, are your strong enough to seek a faith that will allow you to gain an understanding of your sexuality? Are you strong enough to tell your husband you had a sexual encounter with another woman and you had your first partnered orgasm?

Your original question wanted to know if you had sinned. My answer is no, you haven't sinned. The sin was not allowing a child to grow up in an atmosphere in which human sexuality was discussed, explored and understood.
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post #33 of 111 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 09:15 AM
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Re: Am I a sinner?

I forgot to add this.

I agree with JLD. Don't tell your husband, JUST YET. I think you must tell him and you must also not have any more encounters with your SIL.

The reason why I don't think you should tell your husband is because I don't think he will be able to support you gaining a clear acceptance and understanding of your sexuality. I think you need to have that answer yourself before you tell him.

You CAN have a sexual attraction to another person and remain faithful to your husband. You CAN be bisexual yet remain faithful to your husband...but you will need to understand a part of you may yearn for, long for and grow very discontented by cutting off that part of yourself.

Your husband may come to be okay with you having sexual encounters with another woman. Some men are okay with that. This forum is filled with people still hurting from betrayal so you're not likely to hear from anyone who advocates this kind of selective open arrangement. But it can be done.

The point is, you have to discover what it is that you want first! Do you want your marriage in tact? Do you want to explore and experience your sexuality more openly? What do YOU want?
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post #34 of 111 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 09:19 AM
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Re: Am I a sinner?

Thank you so much, AP, for stepping in here.

LR, you can trust AP. She knows a lot about human sexuality. Please reread her last sentence carefully.

You are not going to hell, LR. And we do not want your present life to become one, either. That is why I think a real life, secular source of wise counsel would be helpful to you before you or your sil say anything.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #35 of 111 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 09:46 AM
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Re: Am I a sinner?

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Originally Posted by Anon Pink View Post
I think the back story, as JellyBeans points out, is going to be helpful to understand better.


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Originally Posted by Anon Pink View Post
The reason why I don't think you should tell your husband is because I don't think he will be able to support you gaining a clear acceptance and understanding of your sexuality.

Your husband may come to be okay with you having sexual encounters with another woman. Some men are okay with that. This forum is filled with people still hurting from betrayal so you're not likely to hear from anyone who advocates this kind of selective open arrangement. But it can be done.
And I just want to add that your husband may not be ok with it at all. It could very well be that he does not want to be in a marriage with you. Which you would also have to accept. It could go either way. Just saying.

It would be very helpful to know the backstory.

How did you end up in bed with her? Where were your husbands?

If your husband slept with your brother, how would you feel? I am just trying to put two sides to this. Would you want to know?

It sucks, either way.
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post #36 of 111 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 11:16 AM
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Re: Am I a sinner?

You might want to read the whole thread, JB, just in case you have not. Some of that is covered. Just fyi.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #37 of 111 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 12:43 PM
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Re: Am I a sinner?

I read all of her posts jld. That's why I asked her what I did cause she seems confused about what she did/what actually happened. Thanks.
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post #38 of 111 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 12:46 PM
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Re: Am I a sinner?

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Originally Posted by Anon Pink View Post
I'm not a fundamentalist Christian. I do understand human sexuality though. Homosexuality and bisexuality are NOT sins! Let's clear that up right now! One cannot be "cured" from their sexual orientation anymore than a right handed person can be "cured" to write with their left hand!

Actually, if one is a Bible believing Christian, then yes, those absolutely ARE sins...or rather ACTING on them is a sin. Just as, again, a Bible believing Christian sees premarital sex as a sin, as well as infidelity being a sin.

LR, here's the thing. You asked if you are a sinner. First thing that popped into my head, before even OPENING this thread was "Yes, you are a sinner. We are ALL sinners, even me." Now, I am certain you consider yourself a Christian, so that's why I am wondering WHY you even asked if you were a sinner... having done this with someone other than your husband. I'm sorry, but you knew the answer before you even asked it.

You very well may find a church, as others have suggested, which is more accepting of homosexual or bisexual behavior. If that is what you choose, that's up to you. Before you do decide to switch, though, you need to be clear on what you believe. I'm not talking about what others have TOLD you to believe, I mean searching the Scriptures yourself... see what the Bible says, not taking MY word for it, nor AP's, nor anyone else. Look at it on your own. And, if you choose to follow another path, that is your choice. But, the bottom line here is that YES, what you have done is a sin.

You can use the 2x4 without adding nails to it.
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post #39 of 111 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 12:55 PM
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Re: Am I a sinner?

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I read all of her posts jld. That's why I asked her what I did cause she seems confused about what she did/what actually happened. Thanks.
Okay, sorry about that.

One of the deepest feminine pleasures is when a man stands full, present, and unreactive in the midst of his woman's emotional storms. When he stays present with her, and loves her through the layers of wildness and closure, then she feels his trustability, and she can relax. -- David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man
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post #40 of 111 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 04:08 PM
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Re: Am I a sinner?

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Actually, if one is a Bible believing Christian, then yes, those absolutely ARE sins...or rather ACTING on them is a sin. Just as, again, a Bible believing Christian sees premarital sex as a sin, as well as infidelity being a sin.

LR, here's the thing. You asked if you are a sinner. First thing that popped into my head, before even OPENING this thread was "Yes, you are a sinner. We are ALL sinners, even me." Now, I am certain you consider yourself a Christian, so that's why I am wondering WHY you even asked if you were a sinner... having done this with someone other than your husband. I'm sorry, but you knew the answer before you even asked it.

You very well may find a church, as others have suggested, which is more accepting of homosexual or bisexual behavior. If that is what you choose, that's up to you. Before you do decide to switch, though, you need to be clear on what you believe. I'm not talking about what others have TOLD you to believe, I mean searching the Scriptures yourself... see what the Bible says, not taking MY word for it, nor AP's, nor anyone else. Look at it on your own. And, if you choose to follow another path, that is your choice. But, the bottom line here is that YES, what you have done is a sin.
Let's not devolve this thread. One can be a bible believing fundamentalist Christian AND also conclude that homosexuality is not a sin, nor is having homosexual sex a sin. YOUR church may not ascribe to that but there are churches that do.

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post #41 of 111 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 04:15 PM
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Re: Am I a sinner?

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Let's not devolve this thread. One can be a bible believing fundamentalist Christian AND also conclude that homosexuality is not a sin, nor is having homosexual sex a sin. YOUR church may not ascribe to that but there are churches that do.
If you believe what the Bible says about it, then no, you cannot conclude that it is not a sin. Does that mean that we are to go out and, militantly, say "you're going to hell because of this"? Of course not. But, we all have our own choices to make, regarding each of our sins.

She asked if she is a sinner... if what she has done is a sin. Yes, and yes. Now, she needs to decide how she is going to move forward from it.

You can use the 2x4 without adding nails to it.
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post #42 of 111 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 05:02 PM
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Re: Am I a sinner?

I'm confused. Are some of you saying that this isn't a "sin" because she's potentially bi-sexual? But if she humped the leg of her BIL till they both orgasmed, THEN it would be a sin?

To me, she had "sex" with someone other than her husband. That's all that needs to be considered to answer the original question. The fact that it was homosexual (which some religions take as a sin) or with a relative are merely compounding the original sin.

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post #43 of 111 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 05:26 PM
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Re: Am I a sinner?

I think the lesbian bisexual issues don't matter. She got sexual gratification outside her marriage. That's cheating, no orgasms with her spouse, or the gender of who she cheated with are not excuses.
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post #44 of 111 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 05:40 PM
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Re: Am I a sinner?

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I think the lesbian bisexual issues don't matter. She got sexual gratification outside her marriage. That's cheating, no orgasms with her spouse, or the gender of who she cheated with are not excuses.
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post #45 of 111 (permalink) Old 02-06-2014, 06:07 PM
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Re: Am I a sinner?

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I am married and me and my husband are devoted Christians. That makes this even more difficult for me to comprehend.
Since that is the case, I will answer your post in accordance with the scriptures. Note, I said with reference to the scriptures, not church tradition.

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As it happens, I seem to have done something that I believe might be sinful and I am feeling dreadful about it at the moment. My husband has a sister whom I have known a long time and is very close to us both. ...

I can't really stop thinking about this. What should I do? Do I ask God for help?

When we were sleeping in the cottage I woke up in the night and me and her (the husband's sister) were all tangled up and arms around each other. This is one of those things you just can't explain but she was awake too and was just looking at me. After awhile she started to move herself against me and it bagan to feel nice and I guess we got caught in the moment. We did not kiss or anything like that. I'm not sure exactly how long it lasted but after and during it evoked such feelings in me that should only be happening when intimate with my husband....I guess the description of us rubbing against each other is the most accurate and the end result being an orgasm. From her trembling breathing and voices she made I guess she experienced similar feelings as me. I am ashamed to admit that while the feeling was similar I most likely have not ever had an orgasm while being intimate with my husband. At least not that I remember.

All this talk about gays and bi-sexuals and normal behavior is so confusing. I was told that gays go to hell as a child unless they go to therapy to get cured. I am afraid to tell about this to anyone least my husband as he will surely leave me if he thinks I am not normal.
Okay then.

#1 What you did, or I should say what your SIL did, is not forbidden by the scriptures. In fact, it's not even mentioned in the list of sexual sins in the Bible (Torah-Five Books of Moses - AKA "THE LAW"). However, homosexual sex between men is condemned in the Torah. Yes, the Bible has a double standard.

So the actual act in and of itself is not called out as sin in the Bible's sin list. In the last 150 years or so, people have tried to claim that Romans 1:26 condemns female/female action when it says: "For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature." Since nothing in the Bible anywhere else says two girls is a sin and the context of the passage is a discussion of pagan gods and myths, in which bestiality plays a big part, bestiality is most likely what Paul is referencing. Bestiality, for both man and woman, is in fact a sin according to Leviticus. So, that's the only passage one can point to, even erroneously, as being a denunciation of girl/girl sexual activity. Previously, that same passage was used as a denunciation of anal sex. In context of a discussion of pagan gods and their propensity for bestiality with human females, it fits nicely with the Old Testament list of sexual sins.

The people who wish to use Romans 1:26 as an anti-lesbian sex verse support this modern interpretation with Romans 1:27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error. Now that is clearly male homosexuality, but male homosexuality is already on the sin list in Leviticus. Remember, the Biblical standard for behavior is not the same for men and women.


#2 Biblically, and legally, what you did is not adultery. Exodus defines adultery as a man copulating with another man's wife, and many legal jurisdictions still do. There is no way for your SIL to adulterate your husband's seed and produce bastards, so adultery it is not. No man, no seed, no adultery.

So, there is no sexual sin committed, according to the actual biblical definitions of sexual sin.

Now, as for the rest of it, if you know your husband is going to object to this, don't do it again. There is no need to confess to it and there is no need to worry about it. It happened, you didn't plan it. No sin was committed. You don't even need to bring up the subject again with your SIL.

However, if you're going to keep this up, you need to get your husband's permission, since you as a Christian woman, are under his headship. I Peter 3: 5,6 "For this is how the holy women who hoped in God used to adorn themselves, by submitting to their own husbands, as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord."

Last edited by Machiavelli; 02-06-2014 at 06:12 PM.
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