My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not - Page 14 - Talk About Marriage
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post #196 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-19-2015, 11:25 AM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

What is it about "Christian history" you love? History is just history. There isn't Christian math, or Christian physics. History is simply documented events. The history of Jesus is not clear, it is open to debate. Can I assume, what you like about history, is when it seems to corroborate a belief you have? A Christian may think, if a man named Jesus is proved to exist, then my religion and all of its beliefs must be well-founded? I think the stumbling point for non-believers is that, the ultimate construct of "god" and "religion" is an unproveable notion. There can be fact-based, intelligent debates (well, there CAN be, not saying they all are) about paleontology, geology, engineering (could the Ark actually have been built, e.g.), etc..., but all of those will never get at the issue of, does there exist this unseeable, intangible, nebulous supreme being? In essence, all of the things that would finally prove god fall OUTSIDE of all the things we would use to prove ANY other claim. This is where all discussions seem to just road block, non-believers say, "well, that's convenient, no form of proof works on god," and believers say, "exactly, that's why we believe," or some version of that.

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post #197 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-19-2015, 12:13 PM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

What is it about "Christian history" you love? History is just history.

Well, I think most historians get excited about a particular type of history. My dad loves the civil war, my friend is into WWII. Even scientists will focus on a particular type of science that they especially love. Biology vs. Physics.

I love religion in general. My undergraduate degree is in comparative religious studies. But I was raised Christian, my father is a minister and I knew a lot about Christianity going into my studies. But Christian history is just fascinating. In the beginning, of course, they didn’t have a lot of power in a Roman society. And they were interacting with Greek, Roman, and Hebrew cultures. Something about Christianity at that time excited some people. And that’s fascinating to me. And then, of course, Constantine made the church official and the church became part of the power of the state.

It’s so complex, really. There has always been this interaction between Government and people’s spirituality. They don’t always match. But people in power love religion and they use it to maintain power. Karl Marx said that religion is “the opiate of the masses.” And I agree with that. It can be that. But it can be more than that too. The individual experience someone has of their faith is very different than what governments use to maintain power through religion. I think I love studying that interaction. It fascinates me. Why were particular books chosen for the Bible? Even within those books chosen we have a compassionate Jesus who cared about the poor, and women, and Samaritans – the outcasts of society. So what fell out when Constantine took the church over? What didn’t match with those images of the monarch Jesus? And how did people live that differently? It’s really interesting to me. And I love Mary and all of the Marian imagery in art in the middle ages. I love European art from the middle ages.

Can I assume, what you like about history, is when it seems to corroborate a belief you have? A Christian may think, if a man named Jesus is proved to exist, then my religion and all of its beliefs must be well-founded?

If we could prove that Jesus did not exist would that mean I would have to change religious traditions? I don’t know. Jesus is a construct in a lot of ways anyway. That’s a good question, though. It wouldn’t change my belief in God. But I might have to redefine what that is. I don’t think I can ultimately know who God is anyway. It’s impossible, IMO, to really know who God is. In the Hebrew Bible, YHWH, only means “I am who I am.” What does that mean? Basically that means that God is mystery. I can have a taste of who God is in meditation but I can’t ultimately know who God is.

but all of those will never get at the issue of, does there exist this unseeable, intangible, nebulous supreme being?

I find that fantastic. I think mystery in life is awesome. It allows me to release control. And I’m kind of a control freak so I need that. Not saying anything about you so don’t take that to mean that I am saying anything about your experience. I just see God as being mystery and I need that in my life.

Last edited by Pooh Bear; 02-19-2015 at 12:19 PM.
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post #198 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-19-2015, 01:20 PM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

I really appreciate your taking the time to discuss this; while there are things I can't relate to, inherently, at least this is civil and, I think, respectful.

To another point I raised (maybe it was another thread, I'm not sure), though, as to when reality can really highlight the negative aspects of religion, I present:

After 'much prayer', doctor refuses to see 6-day-old baby because she has two moms

A doctor refused to treat a baby because its moms are gay. While this is just some office visit, one can only assume this doctor's beliefs would hold if it were an urgent issue. Can you imagine? Purporting to stand on religious/moral high ground while you allowed a human being to potentially die or suffer? I can't imagine anything LESS moral.
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post #199 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-19-2015, 01:30 PM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

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I really appreciate your taking the time to discuss this; while there are things I can't relate to, inherently, at least this is civil and, I think, respectful.

To another point I raised (maybe it was another thread, I'm not sure), though, as to when reality can really highlight the negative aspects of religion, I present:

After 'much prayer', doctor refuses to see 6-day-old baby because she has two moms

A doctor refused to treat a baby because its moms are gay. While this is just some office visit, one can only assume this doctor's beliefs would hold if it were an urgent issue. Can you imagine? Purporting to stand on religious/moral high ground while you allowed a human being to potentially die or suffer? I can't imagine anything LESS moral.
Wow. That's heartbreaking. I don't really understand why a doctor would refuse to see anyone unless maybe the person had threatened to kill you or something. I agree with you that that is immoral. Luckily this was just a new baby check up so the baby wasn't in danger of dying. I live in the US and I have a real problem with people bringing their religious beliefs into the secular realm. The government has no right to tell you how to practice your beliefs but neither do you have a right to bring your religious understanding out into the public square. I think that line has been crossed recently at the behest of the supreme court and it concerns me greatly. It's always kind of a back and forth in the US though. Where do you live?
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post #200 of 207 (permalink) Old 01-29-2016, 02:49 PM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

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That is remarkable. The Catholic church usually won't marry couples of different denominations, much less an atheist. My first wife was a Nazarene and that was the only reason I was granted an annulment, even though she cheated on me as well.
Sorry late to the threadhere... just reading from the beginning but this struck me as a misunderstanding. I was married in a Catholic church - my wife had a priest and I had a minister. That was in the 1980's in a conservative Catholic church. It is absolutely acceptable. I think the Priest got a dispensation from a bishop or something - didn't involve me so I didn't worry about it - but it was no problem at all. Except of course the people who attended - the Catholics thought it was a non-catholic wedding because it was so brief and the non-catholics assumed it was Catholic since it was so long. Very amusing
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post #201 of 207 (permalink) Old 01-29-2016, 09:43 PM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

2 Corinthians 6:14 (New International Version) 'Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?'

If you are deliberately disobeying this I don't believe you are a hypocritical Christian. I don't. You are likely not a Christian at all. You are likely a nominal Christian which sadly I believe makes up for the majority of Christianity today. People who observe the form of godliness but do not have a personal love-relationship with Christ. John 14:15 (New International Version) 'If you love me, keep my commandments.'

Why am I posting this? Just a little enlightenment for those saying Christians and non-Christians can purposefully get into marriage relationships. Not if you want to obey God! Of course, if you were already married to a non-Christian when you got married, the bible says you shouldn't divorce them if they want to remain married to you (1 Corinthians 7: 12-13).

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post #202 of 207 (permalink) Old 01-29-2016, 10:29 PM
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2 Corinthians 6:14 (New International Version) 'Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?'

If you are deliberately disobeying this I don't believe you are a hypocritical Christian. I don't. You are likely not a Christian at all. You are likely a nominal Christian which sadly I believe makes up for the majority of Christianity today. People who observe the form of godliness but do not have a personal love-relationship with Christ. John 14:15 (New International Version) 'If you love me, keep my commandments.'

Why am I posting this? Just a little enlightenment for those saying Christians and non-Christians can purposefully get into marriage relationships. Not if you want to obey God! Of course, if you were already married to a non-Christian when you got married, the bible says you shouldn't divorce them if they want to remain married to you (1 Corinthians 7: 12-13).
Believer not Christian. You're rewriting the bible.
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post #203 of 207 (permalink) Old 01-30-2016, 08:23 AM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

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Believer not Christian. You're rewriting the bible.
That is what the bible considers a believer -- a Christian (believer in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour). They are one and the same.
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post #204 of 207 (permalink) Old 01-31-2016, 07:56 AM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

Just want to say; THANK GOD I NEVER GOT RELIGION OR TO SAY BECAME RELIGIOUS. Yes, became a CHRISTIAN. a WORLD OF DIFFERENCE BETWEEN RELIGIOUS AND CHRISTIANITY.
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post #205 of 207 (permalink) Old 01-31-2016, 08:31 PM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

Thank God, Christianity is the TRUE RELIGION!

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post #206 of 207 (permalink) Old 01-31-2016, 08:52 PM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

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Thank God, Christianity is the TRUE RELIGION!
Thank you for illustrating why being religious and being spiritual are not the same thing.
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post #207 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-02-2016, 09:46 PM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

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Thank you for illustrating why being religious and being spiritual are not the same thing.
No problemo.

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