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post #91 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-06-2015, 03:49 PM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

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Originally Posted by jaquen View Post
Human beings have never lacked for finding justifications to do the most abhorrent things to one another. Plenty of people have said, and done, horrifying things in the name of their perception of God. And plenty of non-believers have too, for reasons that have nothing to do with religion or spirituality.

You seem focused on this one bee in the bonnet. I see many. Such is life.
I think it would be a curious exercise...and I'm not sure exactly how you could go about gathering the data...to determine just with what - at the heart of it - people have tried to justify "bad behavior." The thing about non-believers, though, is that their non-belief can't really justify anything. Specifically, "atheism" doesnt have any commands. There isn't an edict of atheism that says, "so go break the laws, kill people, etc..., because there is no god." It just says, "I don't believe in a god." What you do from there becomes personal accountability. It means you CAN'T pawn off your values, actions, or morals on anything else but yourself. That's in contrast to a religious person who could say, "look, I'd like to support gay marriage but, hey, the Bible says its wrong and they're going to hell....sorry." That's the distinction of religion: it's spouted as if it's RIGHT and expected to be taken as so, without question, and you can't deny that there is a taboo on calling that out. I can't think of anything else that someone could use to justify evil that is so protected and would be supported by so many.

If one man kills a gay man and says simply, "because I hate those ****," that's not really justification, that's simply the reason, it's personal accountability. If he said, "my dog told me to," that's an attempt at justification, but it'd be dismissed and he'd be wrapped in a white coat and sent away. If he said, "God told me to," that's an attempt at justification, too, and to the point, is a realm many people consider unimpeachable, if not still inadequate. However, realize MANY people agree with that (see my previous link about the preacher who believes the Bible mandates such). Think of the law recently (AZ?) that wants to allow people to discriminate if it is based on your religious beliefs. I feel I should emphasize: There are people that want to be able to MISTREAT certain people, based on whatever, orientation, race, gender - which isn't allowed for any other reason in our legal system - and specifically present their religion as the justification.

OK, to the topic specifically, I encourage OP and others to watch these videos. If you don't think that this conflict is very real, and MATERIAL to this relationship, think again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1DH3XOK4EI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0AeTV4a_wI

For a freethinker, critical thinker, who has intently come to the state of non-belief in a god, religion, etc..., to embark on a serious, long-term relationship with someone who is embracing (and suddenly so, no less) religion and the beliefs implied therein, is a serious, serious conflict, and should be specifically addressed.

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post #92 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-06-2015, 05:48 PM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

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Au contraire. Hear about this guy who punched a teenager in the chest and "crumpled him....just crumpled him" for "not taking the Lord seriously"?

Pastor: I punched a kid ‘as hard as I could’ for ‘not taking the Lord serious’

Or how about the pastor who said we could have an "AIDS-free Christmas" if we just listened to the Bible: "Because if you executed the homos like God recommends, you wouldn’t have all this AIDS running rampant.”

Arizona pastor predicts ‘AIDS-free Christmas’ if all gays are killed, as God commands

Or this guy who is simply 100% sure that people that don't believe what he does are simply doomed to hell (ya know, torture, fire, eternal damnation - gee thanks!)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAen2NPDr8A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TedHVzZdkSw

Religion is used as justification for some of the most horrific notions floating around the world today. These are just the tip of the iceberg. I'm prosyletizing? Yeah, for REASON, and LOGIC, if you want to call it that. Atheists don't preach "fire and brimstone," we teach real life, here and now, people, each other, and an utter lack of either supernatural directives, punishments or rewards.
Many aethists don't preach anything. They just live their lives and don't worry about whether some believes in God or not unless it interferes with their lives. You are being judgemental. And taking extreme cases of religious absurdity. Are there religious idiots? Of course. Doesn't mean that everybody is.
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post #93 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-06-2015, 05:51 PM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

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Originally Posted by changedbeliefs View Post
I think it would be a curious exercise...and I'm not sure exactly how you could go about gathering the data...to determine just with what - at the heart of it - people have tried to justify "bad behavior." The thing about non-believers, though, is that their non-belief can't really justify anything. Specifically, "atheism" doesnt have any commands. There isn't an edict of atheism that says, "so go break the laws, kill people, etc..., because there is no god." It just says, "I don't believe in a god." What you do from there becomes personal accountability. It means you CAN'T pawn off your values, actions, or morals on anything else but yourself. That's in contrast to a religious person who could say, "look, I'd like to support gay marriage but, hey, the Bible says its wrong and they're going to hell....sorry." That's the distinction of religion: it's spouted as if it's RIGHT and expected to be taken as so, without question, and you can't deny that there is a taboo on calling that out. I can't think of anything else that someone could use to justify evil that is so protected and would be supported by so many.

If one man kills a gay man and says simply, "because I hate those ****," that's not really justification, that's simply the reason, it's personal accountability. If he said, "my dog told me to," that's an attempt at justification, but it'd be dismissed and he'd be wrapped in a white coat and sent away. If he said, "God told me to," that's an attempt at justification, too, and to the point, is a realm many people consider unimpeachable, if not still inadequate. However, realize MANY people agree with that (see my previous link about the preacher who believes the Bible mandates such). Think of the law recently (AZ?) that wants to allow people to discriminate if it is based on your religious beliefs. I feel I should emphasize: There are people that want to be able to MISTREAT certain people, based on whatever, orientation, race, gender - which isn't allowed for any other reason in our legal system - and specifically present their religion as the justification.

OK, to the topic specifically, I encourage OP and others to watch these videos. If you don't think that this conflict is very real, and MATERIAL to this relationship, think again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1DH3XOK4EI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0AeTV4a_wI

For a freethinker, critical thinker, who has intently come to the state of non-belief in a god, religion, etc..., to embark on a serious, long-term relationship with someone who is embracing (and suddenly so, no less) religion and the beliefs implied therein, is a serious, serious conflict, and should be specifically addressed.
Right. Religion has been used for centuries to justify all sorts of bad behavior. Yet, in China you can get thrown in to jail for being religious. Atheists have their own justifications. That's a human trait.
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post #94 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-06-2015, 08:03 PM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

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Originally Posted by changedbeliefs View Post
I think it would be a curious exercise...and I'm not sure exactly how you could go about gathering the data...to determine just with what - at the heart of it - people have tried to justify "bad behavior." The thing about non-believers, though, is that their non-belief can't really justify anything. Specifically, "atheism" doesnt have any commands. There isn't an edict of atheism that says, "so go break the laws, kill people, etc..., because there is no god." It just says, "I don't believe in a god." What you do from there becomes personal accountability. It means you CAN'T pawn off your values, actions, or morals on anything else but yourself. That's in contrast to a religious person who could say, "look, I'd like to support gay marriage but, hey, the Bible says its wrong and they're going to hell....sorry." That's the distinction of religion: it's spouted as if it's RIGHT and expected to be taken as so, without question, and you can't deny that there is a taboo on calling that out. I can't think of anything else that someone could use to justify evil that is so protected and would be supported by so many.

If one man kills a gay man and says simply, "because I hate those ****," that's not really justification, that's simply the reason, it's personal accountability. If he said, "my dog told me to," that's an attempt at justification, but it'd be dismissed and he'd be wrapped in a white coat and sent away. If he said, "God told me to," that's an attempt at justification, too, and to the point, is a realm many people consider unimpeachable, if not still inadequate. However, realize MANY people agree with that (see my previous link about the preacher who believes the Bible mandates such). Think of the law recently (AZ?) that wants to allow people to discriminate if it is based on your religious beliefs. I feel I should emphasize: There are people that want to be able to MISTREAT certain people, based on whatever, orientation, race, gender - which isn't allowed for any other reason in our legal system - and specifically present their religion as the justification.

OK, to the topic specifically, I encourage OP and others to watch these videos. If you don't think that this conflict is very real, and MATERIAL to this relationship, think again:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1DH3XOK4EI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0AeTV4a_wI

For a freethinker, critical thinker, who has intently come to the state of non-belief in a god, religion, etc..., to embark on a serious, long-term relationship with someone who is embracing (and suddenly so, no less) religion and the beliefs implied therein, is a serious, serious conflict, and should be specifically addressed.
OK.
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post #95 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-07-2015, 05:40 AM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

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Many aethists don't preach anything. They just live their lives and don't worry about whether someone believes in God or not unless it interferes with their lives.
I think, in most cases, with one very important exception I'll get to in a minute, that would describe me. I'm no longer interested in debating this subject with religious people, unless they are using a religious justification to advocate for public policies which I think are unfair, harmful, and against my values (and which could not be justified without religious reasons). Then I'll speak up and defend my secular morality, coming from the Enlightenment tradition of empathy, human rights, yada yada, and let the chips fall where they may. Unless someone wants to put someone else in an orange jumpsuit and cut their head off for disagreeing, religious folks and atheists can debate these kinds of subjects in the public sphere, accept if they lose the political battle (and by the way, the secularists are pretty steadily winning in the Western world at least), and then come back for the next round. I have learned to live with religious people in society even if their influence sometimes results in policies I disagree with.

The exception I make is for my spouse and life partner. Someone might be religious out of a simple sense of cultural tradition (ie: they don't take their religion particularly seriously and their opinions on any practical matter differ in no important way from mine), but I would still find that kind of passive intellectual conformity very alien and unattractive in a partner. If you don't really believe, then have the courage to say so and live so. If my spouse actually took religion seriously, that would be even worse. Even if their beliefs don't "interfere" with my life in any way (they never talk about it, they don't drag me to church, etc) I would consider them to be bizarrely and inexplicably in thrall to weak-minded, delusional nonsense that I have absolutely no time for, and how can I respect that?

tldr; I can live with religion in society. I can't live with it in my spouse.

(I think this applies to a few other "spiritual/new agey" things as well. The wife of a friend of mine has gotten into "energy healing" in a really big way, ie: writing a book about it, changing her career to practice it and train others, can't help herself from offering you some energy healing if you mention any health ailment or bad habit at a party, etc. I politely asked her about the book because I hadn't heard she was writing one, and she said "yes, my husband never mentions this to his friends because he's embarrassed by it" (as I know he is, because we've talked about it during the alarming initial conversion phase). Now, that to me sounds like trouble.)

Last edited by MarriedManInHis40s; 02-07-2015 at 06:04 AM.
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post #96 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-07-2015, 07:31 AM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

It's YOU with problem lady - NOT him!
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post #97 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-07-2015, 03:22 PM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

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What is your commitment level? If you don't have a high commitment standard, be truthful and let him know this may be a deal breaker for you as well as anything else that comes up that "you" aren't sure you can live with.
Commitment level?

You sound like he's blowing off their date night to take up karaoke on the weekends.

This isn't just something "that comes up"

IF her husband has just suddenly changed his entire worldview to one which she cannot share and in fact actively is against then this has nothing to do with her "commitment level".

This affects EVERYTHING important in a relationship.
Children, social life, sex life, mutual respect,...everything.

It's a major deal and not very promising for their marriage.

*Yes I know this is an academic discussion due to zombie thread.

As far as love...the only thing you will regret in life is the risks you never took.
-mineforever
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post #98 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-07-2015, 03:25 PM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

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It's YOU with problem lady - NOT him!
Why is it her problem that he has just completely changed the parameters of their relationship and his own worldview/character?

Why is it her problem that he has just become a different man than the one she agreed to marry?

She didn't change anything, he did.

Why is she at fault?

As far as love...the only thing you will regret in life is the risks you never took.
-mineforever

Last edited by tacoma; 02-07-2015 at 03:31 PM.
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post #99 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-07-2015, 03:41 PM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

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Commitment level?

You sound like he's blowing off their date night to take up karaoke on the weekends.

This isn't just something "that comes up"

IF her husband has just suddenly changed his entire worldview to one which she cannot share and in fact actively is against then this has nothing to do with her "commitment level".

This affects EVERYTHING important in a relationship.
Children, social life, sex life, mutual respect,...everything.

It's a major deal and not very promising for their marriage.

*Yes I know this is an academic discussion due to zombie thread.
Years ago my paternal grandparents, aunt and cousins all became "born again" Christians. Jesus said this and Jesus said that. Praise this, praise that. The music I listened to was going to send me to hell. You could not have a normal conversation with them. They were unbearable to be around.

I can only imagine how worse it would be if this happened within a marriage. I don't think I could live with someone that is a fanatic.
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post #100 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-09-2015, 08:54 AM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

Ewww....Please do your husband a favor and divorce him. Apparently your marriage was built on nothing short of lies and deceit anyways. How anyone can divorce their spouse because they found the light and now believe in something instead of nothing; that life has no purpose other than to behave like absolute savages and the animals around us is deplorable. What's even more disgusting is your disdain for him and others like him that think differently and beyond most "normal" people's sense of compassion. That said, I'm not surprised I've seen the attitude and behaviors of your kind towards those who believe in a something.

Yes, do him a favor and divorce him.

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post #101 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-09-2015, 09:57 AM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

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What's even more disgusting is your disdain for him and others like him that think differently
Your disdain for others is very Christian, on the other hand - totally different - I can totally see how your imaginary friend is helping you be a better person.
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post #102 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-09-2015, 10:00 AM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

I have a family member whose wife "Found Jesus". His life has been unbearable. A religious person puts a great deal of importance in their faith so daily decisions, comments etc tend to become faith based. We couldn't watch the news without some comment from her connecting even the stock market with God. Anyway, hubby and I talked about it later and he said very plainly that if I cheated on him he would try to understand why and forgive. If I broke the law he would try to understand and help me. If I become an drug addict etc he would forgive and help me. But, if I ever became devote in any faith , he would pack his bags and leave instantly. That is just to give you a taste of how bad the weekend with my relative was. Its ok for one spouse to be faithful and the other not, but if the one that changed the game plan begins to also change their daily life it will become a problem. Talk to him about your definition of respecting each others believes. What actions or comments constitutes disrespect.
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post #103 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-09-2015, 10:12 AM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

This topic came up on Gray's Anatomy last week. Christian April is pregnant and they've found a significant issue with the baby in utero that will likely lead to the baby's death during birth or shortly thereafter.

Her husband is an atheist, is terribly sad about this news, and he wants to talk with April about what is happening to their baby and what they will do. April doesn't want to talk about it and heads to church to pray instead, leaving her husband suffering on his own and feeling shut out because his wife would rather talk to her god about it instead of with him.

I'm sure they'll resolve it all somehow because it's tv, but in real life, this kind of situation would likely tear a couple apart in the end.
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post #104 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-09-2015, 10:51 AM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

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Ewww....Please do your husband a favor and divorce him. Apparently your marriage was built on nothing short of lies and deceit anyways. How anyone can divorce their spouse because they found the light and now believe in something instead of nothing; that life has no purpose other than to behave like absolute savages and the animals around us is deplorable. What's even more disgusting is your disdain for him and others like him that think differently and beyond most "normal" people's sense of compassion. That said, I'm not surprised I've seen the attitude and behaviors of your kind towards those who believe in a something.

Yes, do him a favor and divorce him.
What you "believe" in ought to be true, don't you think? And there is NO evidence that it is. But if that's the only thing keeping YOU from behaving like a "savage," then:

Quote:
Detective Martin Hart: I mean, can you imagine if people didn't believe, what things they'd get up to?

Detective Rustin Cohle: Exact same thing they do now. Just out in the open.

Detective Martin Hart: Bull****. It'd be a ****ing freak show of murder and debauchery and you know it.

Detective Rustin Cohle: If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother that person is a piece of ****; and I'd like to get as many of them out in the open as possible.

Last edited by changedbeliefs; 02-09-2015 at 10:55 AM.
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post #105 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-09-2015, 11:01 AM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

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Many aethists don't preach anything. They just live their lives and don't worry about whether some believes in God or not unless it interferes with their lives. You are being judgemental. And taking extreme cases of religious absurdity. Are there religious idiots? Of course. Doesn't mean that everybody is.
Please point out exactly where I'm being "judgmental" of anyone? And I'm not pointing out extreme cases of religious absurdity, I am calling out logical extensions (or actualy instances) of the horrific consequences of the full application of religion. Said in other words, just because someone doesn't act on every tenet of their religion, doesn't mean that their religion is not awful. There are likely billions of Muslims that do not, and would not, fly a plane into a building, but don't kid yourself that many of those DO believe in the tenets that direct it, and condone the actions of those that did. The problem is not, "do people really do this," the problem is, "is there a belief system that presents these problems"? Although the answer is a still-problematic, but somewhat mild "yes, some, but not all" to the first, the answer to the second is an "abso-fricking-lutely."
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