My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not - Page 9 - Talk About Marriage
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post #121 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-10-2015, 09:40 AM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

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Even the most basic Christian believes that I am going to hell, that I will, and deserve to, suffer in eternal torture and hellfire because I don't believe in their god. That is, in fact, a very basic barrier to our getting along.
That's something you choose to make a barrier but some of us don't judge a person's value solely on their religion or lack of. If someone is pleasant and respectful to me then I'll get along with them just fine. My interpretation of the bible is very symbolic which a lot of Christians would find appauling but a conversation can always end with we can agree to disagree and not become a postured us versus them issue.


I'm as deep as a puddle. Holland.
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post #122 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-10-2015, 09:48 AM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

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That's something you choose to make a barrier but some of us don't judge a person's value solely on their religion or lack of. If someone is pleasant and respectful to me then I'll get along with them just fine. My interpretation of the bible is very symbolic which a lot of Christians would find appauling but a conversation can always end with we can agree to disagree and not become a postured us versus them issue.
Would you consider it reasonable, or unreasonable, for me to see someone's perspective on me of "you're going to hell, non-believer" as a barrier to having any sort of mutual-respect-based relationship? Let's go back to the OP's topic at hand. Could they have any sort of viable marriage if her husband views her as doomed for hell for not agreeing with his beliefs? Realize, that is an absolutely realistic, if not mandated to be realistic based on his beliefs, situation. A religious person who does not believe that is, in essence, abandoning a portion of the doctrine. His religion dictates that he believe that all non-believers are going to hell, that they deserve it.
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post #123 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-10-2015, 10:45 AM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

Changed, believers have tons of relationships with family and friends that they believe will have a different fate. It happens in almost every family I have ever known.

I would like to clarify something for you:

"His religion dictates that he believe that all non-believers are going to hell, that they deserve it."

That should say "His religion dictates that he believe that everyone is going to hell, that they deserve it." For the believer is not superior to the non-believer according to doctrine, the only difference is the acceptance of the reality that everyone is in need of a savior.
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post #124 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-10-2015, 10:52 AM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

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Changed, believers have tons of relationships with family and friends that they believe will have a different fate. It happens in almost every family I have ever known.

I would like to clarify something for you:

"His religion dictates that he believe that all non-believers are going to hell, that they deserve it."

That should say "His religion dictates that he believe that everyone is going to hell, that they deserve it." For the believer is not superior to the non-believer according to doctrine, the only difference is the acceptance of the reality that everyone is in need of a savior.
His religion does not say EVERYONE will go to hell. Maybe by default, original sin and all that, but the whole point is that believing is the "out." Religion kinda starts out as, everyone is on the "outside." You can see it as, it assumes everyone is reading its book in order to decide if they should believe. So, its first perspective is, "you're going to hell," but then it adds, "if you don't believe." So, you can believe, save yourself, and now you're in. So, once you believe you've been "saved," no, you're not going to hell. Only those who maintain their lack of belief are.

I URGE anyone to watch this video, this caller jumps in right from the beginning:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TedHVzZdkSw

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post #125 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-10-2015, 11:02 AM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

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Would you consider it reasonable, or unreasonable, for me to see someone's perspective on me of "you're going to hell, non-believer" as a barrier to having any sort of mutual-respect-based relationship? Let's go back to the OP's topic at hand. Could they have any sort of viable marriage if her husband views her as doomed for hell for not agreeing with his beliefs? Realize, that is an absolutely realistic, if not mandated to be realistic based on his beliefs, situation. A religious person who does not believe that is, in essence, abandoning a portion of the doctrine. His religion dictates that he believe that all non-believers are going to hell, that they deserve it.
It sounds reasonable to me. It's just not a wall I choose to put up. I've got too many family members and friends with varying religious beliefs. So given the topic, I think it's safe to say that for you this scenario would be a showstopper. For me it would not be a showstopper unless it lead to me being treated poorly. My thoughts are that we have the ability to think, read, comprehend, and problem solve so it's our jobs as individuals to figure out what we think and to let others do the same unless they ask for opinions.

I'm as deep as a puddle. Holland.
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post #126 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-10-2015, 11:14 AM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

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If you're a Christian - you can't participate in pornography in anyway. That's based on the scriptures in the Bible. What you, I or anyone else think is fine. But our own personal beliefs and feelings are actually irrelevant. The final authority must be the Bible.

Desires are one thing. Actions are another. There is nothing forcing anyone to watch porn. It's a choice and you must make an effort to follow through on that choice.

You say you know it's not Christian; then you say your behavior
doesn't line up with what's Christian. You're not "that type". That sounds condescending. What is "that type"? Devout Christians who try to obey what their instruction manual tells them to do?

"Behavior and one's spiritual state are not the same thing"
Okay, according to you. The quotes I referenced below from James 2 and Matthew 7 seem to disagree with you.

And as far as the "I'm not religious, I'm spiritual" approach? I used to find that kind of beautiful and transcendent. But then I began to see it as an excuse. So, it's meaningless to me when I hear people use it to explain why they believe in God, but don't think they have to obey the rules (Bible).

I believe my comment did ask you what you believe; germane to the thread topic. And I apologized in advance if I had you confused with anyone else.

Why would you debate your relationship to Christ, or his existence?
1 Peter 3:15 ". . . But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect."

By your posts on this forum, I do have respect and regard for your intelligence, jacquen. And obviously, I utterly disagree with you on this issue.

OP, I apologize if I have threadjacked. But perhaps you can glean something from it. Certainly, how divisive religion can be.

And for perspective; I am someone who would still identify as Christian. But probably hanging on to my faith by a string.

Good Luck to you and your husband.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Job 31:1 I made a covenant with my eyes
not to look lustfully at a young woman.

Exodus 20:14, 17

14 You shall not commit adultery*.

17 . . . . . You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife . . . .

Matthew 5:27-29

27 You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’* 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to stumble, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell.

Matthew 7:16, 17

By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?


1 Cor. 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the Kingdom of God? Be not deceived: Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor the effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind

James 2: 24

24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.
The type to lie and pretend.

I could regale you with stories all day long about the goodness of the living God. About what he's done for me. About how incredible our relationship is, how loving, faithful, and beautiful he is, how even in chastisement, he, like a good Father, loves, guides and forgives. I could even give you scripture to counter your mistaken belief that even believers are expected endless perfection in behavior, for the word says that a righteous man isn't the one who does not fall, but the one who gets back up after a fall , time and again (see David, a "man after God's own heart", who certainly had proclivities a lot more involving than mere pornagraphy). It also says that WHEN a man sins, not if, he has an advocate before the Father in the presence of the Son. I could go on and on. Your attempts to corner me with cherry picked. contexteless scriptures, that I know very well, will not work.

I have no trouble sharing my faith. What I will not, do not do, is argue the existence of God or debate my faith. Sharing and debating aren't the same thing. As scripture states, if they're not interested in hearing, shake the dust off your feet and move on. I'm a lover of the free will of us all. It's not my burden, nor my nature, to sit around trying to convince anybody about the existence of God beyond sharing or discussing my faith.

This thread topic is about mixed faith/non-faith marriages. I have stuck to it's topic. Even in the face of Changing Beliefs burning desire to derail the conversation into yet another endless rabble about atheist vs theist, I have not entered into any kind of debate about the existence of God. Because, actually, one can't debate God. You either experience, or you do not. It would be a fruitless endeavour. And ultimately it's neither my desire nor the topic of this thread.

This is why I rarely come into this section. Seems every topic, regardless of how it starts, devolves into this nonsense. Belief vs Unbelief. I have no interest in it.

Again, if for whatever reason you're interested in discussing my faith, PM me. Up to this point you never have. Now here you are, for only reasons God knows, taking small sections of posts from TAM and attempting to judge my entire walk with the living God. You actually know almost nothing about my life, though oddly enough you're making incredible assumptions, all without once bothering to engage in a conversation. Perhaps I am wrong, but you seem to be here to battle, not actually engage, and perhaps someone else will oblige you.

It won't be me.

Last edited by jaquen; 02-10-2015 at 11:37 AM.
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post #127 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-10-2015, 12:34 PM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

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I have no trouble sharing my faith. What I will not, do not do, is argue the existence of God or debate my faith.
Right, you're fine if people want to hear it and rah-rah with you, you just don't want to tolerate anyone telling you that you're wrong, or it's baseless, or that it's very often used for harm, etc... And what luck, the Bible just happens to validate it by saying, essentially, "if people criticize it, walk away and don't listen."

Religion is the perfect scam.

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We're told that God is loving and kind and just and intrinsically good, but when someone like myself points out the rather obvious and compelling evidence that God is cruel and unjust because he visits suffering on innocent people of a scope and scale that would embarrass the most ambitious psychopath...we're told that God is mysterious, who can understand God's will. Yet this merely human understanding of God's will is precisely what believers use to establish his goodness in the first place. Something good happens to a Christian...and we're told God is good. But when children by the tens of thousands are torn from their parents arms and drowned, we're told that God is mysterious. This is how you play tennis without the net....it is not only tiresome when otherwise intelligent people speak this way, it is morally reprehensible. This kind of faith is...the perfection of narcissism...Given all this god of yours does not accomplish in the lives of others, given the misery that's being imposed on some helpless child at this instant, this kind of faith is obscene. To think in this way is to fail to reason honestly, or to care sufficiently, about the suffering of other human beings. - Sam Harris
This thread is precisely about how or why believers can potentally, and likely, IMHO, not get along. I have a very hard time having a meaningful relationship with people who do not think critically - which is what you HAVE to do to accept some of this stuff - about something that supposedly drives their entire worldview, their behavior.
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post #128 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-10-2015, 12:37 PM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

I take it all back changed....you seem to be the happiest most balanced personality on TAM and you play so well with others! ����
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post #129 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-10-2015, 12:45 PM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

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If you're a Christian - you can't participate in pornography in anyway.
The porn business would be dead if that were true.

As far as love...the only thing you will regret in life is the risks you never took.
-mineforever
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post #130 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-10-2015, 12:49 PM
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The porn business would be dead if that were true.
Surprise! A lot of people claiming Christianity aren't practicing Christians.
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post #131 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-10-2015, 12:50 PM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

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I take it all back changed....you seem to be the happiest most balanced personality on TAM and you play so well with others! ����
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I don't give a rat's ass whether you think I'm happy or balanced; the point is, why don't you actually articulate what exactly is making you draw these conclusions? Right now, all it's coming off as is, "this guy's making some argument against religion, why doesn't he just believe we're all destined for mansions in the sky like everyone else does? He must just be sooo sad and crazy!"
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post #132 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-10-2015, 12:51 PM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

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Surprise! A lot of people claiming Christianity aren't practicing Christians.
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Did you bother looking up "No True Scotsman," or are you just going to keep claiming that every person who invokes a negative aspect of religion "isn't really religious"?
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post #133 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-10-2015, 12:56 PM
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Re: My husband has recently become religious and I'm sooo not

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Right, you're fine if people want to hear it and rah-rah with you, you just don't want to tolerate anyone telling you that you're wrong, or it's baseless, or that it's very often used for harm, etc... And what luck, the Bible just happens to validate it by saying, essentially, "if people criticize it, walk away and don't listen."

Religion is the perfect scam.
How would you know what I tolerate? That's right, you don't. Just assumptions all day and night.

I find it interesting that you're ranting and raving about how eiiiivil Christians are, yet here you are in this thread, treating people like absolute dirt. God doesn't need my defense, and you can attack religion all day and night. Your ugliness toward the people who do believe is another matter entirely. There are perfectly loving, kind atheists; I know some. You, however, don't appear to be one of them. You have a lot in common with the very type of theists you seem to abhor so. Two sides of the same coin.
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post #134 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-10-2015, 12:57 PM
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Did you bother looking up "No True Scotsman," or are you just going to keep claiming that every person who invokes a negative aspect of religion "isn't really religious"?
Ok pal. Are you intimately familiar with me or my God that I worship? I haven't met you and don't claim to know you intimately or your belief system. When I say someone isn't representing my God, I am pretty damn sure I know what I am talking about better than you.

Want me to start pointing you towards reference materials when you don't identify with someone claiming to be associated with you?
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post #135 of 207 (permalink) Old 02-10-2015, 01:01 PM
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I don't give a rat's ass whether you think I'm happy or balanced; the point is, why don't you actually articulate what exactly is making you draw these conclusions? Right now, all it's coming off as is, "this guy's making some argument against religion, why doesn't he just believe we're all destined for mansions in the sky like everyone else does? He must just be sooo sad and crazy!"
I don't have all day to quote your nearly hysterical posts. You come across as unhinged. There are many on this sight that hold opposite beliefs to each other and still respect and appreciate each other.

One of my favorite posters is Married But Happy. We are about as opposite as people can get and like each other anyway.
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