want to open a new thread based on the main ingredient for LIFE and Marriage.
What do u think of forgivness?
can u forgive, truly forgive? against "your" religion?
conditions? can u forgive in most cases but not if....? or the opposite case, "cant forgive in most cases except......?
however u like to open up and discuss. yet most of all, how has
your belief worked out for u so far? or if not worked out, why?
in essence what have u learned or are still learning about forgiveness.
I try to be the bigger person by being the first to extend the olive branch. But it is very hard, especially during the times when I strongly feel that I am not in the wrong. But I've found that once you take the first step to make peace, the rest of the healing process comes a lot easier.
I can't say if I'd forgive something like cheating. I haven't been tested that severely yet. But I can forgive almost everything else.
I'm struggling with what forgiveness really is. Because I don't think it's not really about the other person it's about something within YOU. And second chances and forgiveness are separate things. I cling to the thought that I can't give forgiveness for something unless you show remorse and ask for it. So in my current situation where my H left us for another woman but won't admit it, I can't forgive him. But I can release myself of the burden and feeling of wanting revenge.
Forgiveness is an action, not an emotion. It is something that you bestow on another. It is something you grant, a promise to which you thereafter hold yourself. God tells us to forgive.
"To forgive is to grant pardon without harboring resentment" (thefreedictionary.com). It implies that we must refrain from imposing punishment on an offender or demanding satisfaction for an offense. God even tells us why: He is the judge, not us. Those are things we decide to do, and then carry out. It's a commitment we make, in front of God, to another person or group of people. God tells us (regarding all of our promises): "...Whatever your lips utter you must be sure to do, because you made your vow freely to the LORD your God with your own mouth..." (Deut 23:23).
Quite often, forgiveness is not easy - and often the hurt feelings don't go away. But as Christians, we have something the rest of humanity does not: outside help. God tells us that He will always help us do the right thing.
Quite often, forgiveness is not easy - and often the hurt feelings don't go away. But as Christians, we have something the rest of humanity does not: outside help. God tells us that He will always help us do the right thing.-------TP
i used to (tempted to still, sometimes)beat meself up over the continual battle with re-occurring anger/hate thoughts as not letting go or truly forgiving after giving IT to God.
But truth is, often it is a longer process than one would like to go
thru. when it does happen to me nowadays i picture myself putting a red-hot poker/brand to the thought and "searing" it
shut or as a surgeon would "caulderize" a wd/incision, etc.
I think ABBA likes that sound as much as i do........."ssssss"!
I find the subject of FORGIVENESS fasinating--and very very needed more in our society of ongoing resentments, tiffs and pettiness.
I am someone who is very very troubled when I have angst against ANYONE in my life. I have ALWAYS tried to make peace with a friend, family member if something came between us, as much as I humanly can on my end, and espeically if I caused it, I am generally quick to make amends. Until I do that, I am disturbed somehow -I feel that is GOD. Once I do that, something is lifted from me- regardless of their reaction. I have never lost a friend due to the way I handle forgiveness. This doesn't always mean I want that person back in my life to the same degree if they are dangerous, or could hurt my family in some way though.
As Unbelievable says, life is too short, resentment & ugly stuff is not something I am willing to stuff & carry around, I need it OUT OF MY SYSTEM so when I see these people, I truly can rejoice, smile and MEAN it. I am not someone who can FAKE how I feel. And I dont like myself if I try. I pride myself on being "genuine" before others -even if they might not like me.
Forgiveness is NOT always easy -in fact anyone who says it is (if the offense hurt deeply) -I question whether they have TRULY forgiven. These things should be a struggle, it takes time to work through, no easy way out of this maze.
Once I was SOOOO torn up over some girl talking bad against my older son I kinda got myself in trouble speaking bad about her -which it got back to her. I went to great lenghts to make this right, asking for forgiveness for MY "words" , even writing to the parents & explained myself, why I spoke in haste. Who does this!@#$%! Even the father of the girl was impressed to how I humbled myself- writing back to me calling me a "example" more people should have. Talk about a strange situation - The things I get myself involved in- because of MY mouth.
I learned from that experience just HOW tramatic it is for a parent when someone hurts your child. What made this situation 10 times worse for me was -she was a well respected christian girl from my church. I never expected this from her & her sweetness towards his FACE is what really steamed me to boiling. He was shy & awkward back then, and him learning of her words hurt him a great deal, very deep. This about KILLED me, I literally spent a couple months grappling with forgiving his girl from my heart. I bought this book - highly recommend --for when you do not deserve the hurt (I felt strongly my son did not deserve this) >>> Amazon.com: Forgive and Forget: Healing the Hurts We Don't Deserve (Plus) (9780061285820): Lewis B. Smedes: Books
That was just a Crazy crazy -even embarrassing situation. Something to laugh about & tell the grandchildren someday. My love for my son & taking on his hurt is what drove my anger towards that girl -but it still was not OK. Funny thing is, he forgave her LONG before I did!
When others HURT Me (verbally) , I am far less offended. I often look to why they might be saying something hurtful -are they having a bad day, speaking out of insecurities, or did I deserve it that time? If I did, I will pause, readjust myself but still stay in the game. I will not pout, clam up, think "how dare them" but maybe do some questioning, further investigation. I like to keep the lines of communication open in all things , even in offense.
I also feel I could forgive an affair -if I understood why it happened and his heart was truly back where it belonged.
I do NOT feel I could forgive someone who "intentionally" carelessly wrecklessly harmed my child to damage his or her life/physical body, or to my husband, even myself. That would be a MONSTER STRUGGLE for me personally. I am intregred by tear jerking movies that portray such HIGH emotion and the struggle to forgive under those circumstances. I dont know that I could. I do FEEL I would have to though to regain Peace in my soul. I hope I never face such a situation as long as I live.
I like this quote >>
"You can't undo anything you've already done, but you can face up to it. You can tell the truth. You can seek forgiveness. And then let God do the rest.”
SA - I think you are confusing the feelings with the action. Forgiveness is an action - it is a statement you make to someone else that commits you to a particular course of action - regardless of how you feel. If we were perfect beings, the action would also be accompanied by the feeling of peace, or happiness, or whatever, that people mistakenly call 'forgiveness'. But we aren't.
The key is that you commit to the idea to NEVER impose punishment, or demand that your desire for restitution be fulfilled - you do not adhere to resentment (which is a feeling!)
It also does not mean that restitution cannot be made - in the case of theft, restitution is the best cure (prison time rarely works and is an illogical solution) for the thief. But forgiveness means that you will never hold it over them that they stole from you. You may not trust them, but you do not make a life pattern of resenting them (for the Christian, this would be a form of idolatry - making what was stolen or damaged of more importance that God).
Over time, you may feel better about the situation, but that is subjective and not an accurate measurement of whether or not you adhered to your promise of forgiveness.
I like this, GP. I often set my standards too high for those around me. I allow myself to be hurt because I expect more courtesy. I expect people to ask forgiveness and to own up to wrongdoing. I'm getting much better at realizing that just because I see the wrong doesn't mean others even realize it. We're all human and we all mess up. Some of us tend to mess up more than others (ME!). We all need forgiveness. Allowing others the benefit of a fresh start goes a long way. I mean, don't we all want a "re-do" on a somewhat regular basis??
Exactly the same thing with me and I feel exactly the same!
SA - I think you are confusing the feelings with the action. Forgiveness is an action - it is a statement you make to someone else that commits you to a particular course of action - regardless of how you feel. If we were perfect beings, the action would also be accompanied by the feeling of peace, or happiness, or whatever, that people mistakenly call 'forgiveness'. But we aren't.
The key is that you commit to the idea to NEVER impose punishment, or demand that your desire for restitution be fulfilled - you do not adhere to resentment (which is a feeling!)
It also does not mean that restitution cannot be made - in the case of theft, restitution is the best cure (prison time rarely works and is an illogical solution) for the thief. But forgiveness means that you will never hold it over them that they stole from you. You may not trust them, but you do not make a life pattern of resenting them (for the Christian, this would be a form of idolatry - making what was stolen or damaged of more importance that God).
Over time, you may feel better about the situation, but that is subjective and not an accurate measurement of whether or not you adhered to your promise of forgiveness.
Speaking for myself here, I would NEVER impose punishment on another, or do anything to bring anyone harm, even someone I disliked tremendously, so that is a non issue. I may smile if hardship falls on them -but it would never come from MY hand. That is how I live. But you see, that is my test, I do NOT want to smile if hardship falls on them, so this is where I need to FEEL, I need to totally & honestly release any angst in my heart.
So for me-- to have the feelings behind the action, or at least the STARTING of some genuine feelings / caring to go to another or to move towards someone after a SINCERE apology was given. Sincerity = some feeling/emotion.
Believe me, I understand it is an "action". I don't feel enough people put action behind their getting right with another. Most just take it to God in prayer & forgo the humbling of themselves-- the dirty work of going to that person, they let Jesus Blood take care of it all. Seen it too many times. I think this is one of the most neglected parts of scripture taught in the church today--About not taking your gift to the alter until you have been "reconciled" with another (for me, that is getting angst out of your heart and/or repaying something you owe).
Then I have been on the receiving end of an Aunt who likes to come to me immediately (or any family member) just so she can " Get RIGHT with her God" , even telling me this while she is asking for forgiveness. I kid you not.
Now , in my book, there was no sense in even coming to me at all -with that kind of attitude. I think we need a little feeling there, some motivation other than "I NEED to do this to get right with God" so I can be "clean" again, I see that behavior as almost self serving in nature, I am reduced to a thing in the way of her "cleanness".
If feelings mean nothing, how in the world can you judge anything coming out of a anyone's mouth? How bland life would be if this is how we operated. Don't we all want a Sincere apology, or be sincere when we ask for another's forgiveness. Are not feelings & our emotions a reflection of the heart?
If someone doesn't like me, I would rather them ACT like it for a time while they are dealing with something -than push that down & act a certain way to my face and be devoid of feelings . Some "inner turmoil" can lead you to good places if allow it to do it's job, but to immediately push that off & not face it --but do a feeling-less apology, naaah, save it till you come to a "clearer" place -so we can genuinely communicate what happened & where to go from there.
I need to FEEL.
This IS why I had issues with that girl (silly since she didn't even do anything to me)- She made promises to my son to teach him guitar, promises for the wind. Thankfully he taught himself, he was determined despite the let down- now he is a worship Leader even. But do NOT act a certain way to someone's face -saying you are a friend when you are not or do not care to be. We were stupid. We were fooled, we trusted the outside appearance of goodness.
Better to take some time, pray, struggle -but come to me at the appropriate time, and genuinely - because you care a little about the person, you want peace between the 2 of you, not just "words" spoken to appease a God somewhere. It has to be more than that.
That is what I expect from myself.
I totally agree with you, just cause you forgive does NOT mean everything needs to go back to the same. There are surely "consequences" to our actions.
I kind of look at this almost they same way I do compliments- did you ever meet someone who is SO complimentory, you just KNOW they LIVE to uplift, but there is no way they feel that way about everyone they compliment, after all everyone would be thier BEST friend, the lovliest couple they ever met. It is watered down somehow.
To get complimented by the soul who doesn't live & breathe it every day, somehow means MORE than the one who does it with everyone he meets. Forgiveness is like that-for me. If it comes too easy, too fast, It may be totally devoid of any real meat behind it. But mere words.
A sincere heart-felt apology is what is important, this is what moves us.
So for me-- to have the feelings behind the action, or at least the STARTING of some genuine feelings / caring to go to another or to move towards someone after a SINCERE apology was given. Sincerity = some feeling/emotion. I get what yer saying as USUALLY true but, NOT always is it so because
there are some pretty "cold/clinical" types out there that can
only cooly convey verbally or in deeds only. i won't mention any persons/names.
Believe me, I understand it is an "action". I don't feel enough people put action behind their getting right with another. Most just take it to God in prayer & forgo the humbling of themselves-- the dirty work of going to that person, they let Jesus Blood take care of it all. Seen it too many times. I think this is one of the most neglected parts of scripture taught in the church today--About not taking your gift to the alter until you have been "reconciled" with another (for me, that is getting angst out of your heart and/or repaying something you owe). If u adhered
to other judeo-christian beliefs as good/well as u do this one SA, i'd repeat what MY Lord said to Joesph of Arimethia "you are not far from the kingdom of heaven.."; for i agree with u that many/most ALL peoples (not just christians) are guilty of
this at one time or another.
Yet u leave out one important pt; It is the Lord (via the H>S>)
that actually pts it out to us in the 1st place (usually) as
most of us sin daily w/out even knowing it (i.e., hurt/harm
others, directly/indirectly) unless HE "tell/show" us so.
Which leads me to yer next 3 paragraphs:
Then I have been on the receiving end of an Aunt who likes to come to me immediately (or any family member) just so she can " Get RIGHT with her God" , even telling me this while she is asking for forgiveness. I kid you not.
Now , in my book, there was no sense in even coming to me at all -with that kind of attitude. I think we need a little feeling there, some motivation other than "I NEED to do this to get right with God" so I can be "clean" again, I see that behavior as almost self serving in nature, I am reduced to a thing in the way of her "cleanness". Sad but,
sometimes true...no doubt. Yet there are other ways of looking at this too. e.g., God brought it to her attn 1st. God is God and must be addressed/appeased 1st in a sense as we usually dont
agree with Him quickly and thusly have to come under conviction for our sin(s) against Him first b4 we can move onto
truthfully "settling/admitting/restituting with you.
Also, i think u need to (if u r capable of it) look at yer own pride
issues when "needing a little feeling" coming from her, a little something (pain, suffering, embarrassment kinda things u mean?) that proves she's legitimately sorry? In this world we live in nowadays, u r lucky/forturnate enuff to get any "sorrys" at all from anyone. Sad but true . Ideally yer right in that
she shouldnt put it that way but....again, hey.
If "We" are to be fully mature christians, we arent a) offended in the 1st place (at least not easily)" where there is
Offense there is pride.." and b)"We" give up our cause/hurt/pain
to El Elyon Himself to deal with "vengeance is mine saith....".
If feelings mean nothing, how in the world can you judge anything coming out of a anyone's mouth? How bland life would be if this is how we operated. Don't we all want a Sincere apology, or be sincere when we ask for another's forgiveness. Are not feelings & our emotions a reflection of the heart? And this ones too easy; feelings are shallow barameters of anything in this world, esp considering how we dont master them well (yet)
at all. People can fake feelings pos & negatively speaking so they dont add up to much at the end of the day. i shant have
to waste time proving/explaining this, i hope (just watch survivor on tv, they'll show ya).
If someone doesn't like me, I would rather them ACT like it for a time while they are dealing with something -than push that down & act a certain way to my face and be devoid of feelings . Some "inner turmoil" can lead you to good places if allow it to do it's job, but to immediately push that off & not face it --but do a feeling-less apology, naaah, save it till you come to a "clearer" place -so we can genuinely communicate what happened & where to go from there. U may be right. i'd say case by case can spell out
some diffs. also what i wrote on just above paragraph can/
could apply here as well.
I need to FEEL. generally speaking we all do! but if u go by the FEEL of yer pants then your body
limits yer reasoning skills & becomes the ruler of yer soul, not the Spirit God gave you to depend on and reign with.
This IS why I had issues with that girl (silly since she didn't even do anything to me)- She made promises to my son to teach him guitar, promises for the wind. Thankfully he taught himself, he was determined despite the let down- now he is a worship Leader even. But do NOT act a certain way to someone's face -saying you are a friend when you are not or do not care to be. We were stupid. We were fooled, we trusted the outside appearance of goodness. dont know the full story. u sound harsh on yer self here but as the saying goes: "if it dont kill u, it only makes u stronger..." no es verdad?
Better to take some time, pray, struggle -but come to me at the appropriate time, and genuinely - because you care a little about the person, you want peace between the 2 of you, not just "words" spoken to appease a God somewhere. It has to be more than that.
That is what I expect from myself.
I totally agree with you, just cause you forgive does NOT mean everything needs to go back to the same. There are surely "consequences" to our actions.
I kind of look at this almost they same way I do compliments- did you ever meet someone who is SO complimentory, you just KNOW they LIVE to uplift, but there is no way they feel that way about everyone they compliment, after all everyone would be thier BEST friend, the lovliest couple they ever met. It is watered down somehow. Again it all depends on yer perspective. Some Christians go around
trying to edify everyone they can cause a) it is written to do so. b) christians are in need of it just as much as goyim cuz
its a neg world out there and some/alot of pos is nec to combat that neg polarity. c) God blessed them with edifying
praise as a "gift" as it were, and so, they share it often & as
in tribute/gratitude to God.
Only time its phoney is when they don't believe it or have ulterior personal gain motives etc. but u u mention "feelings" again so....i'll say this:
u dont always feel like doing the house chores but they
must/should be done & so u do 'em.
so much for "feelings".
Feelings are meant primarily as beacons/alerts, indicators to something changing the status quo, our focus, our physiological makeup, and so on & so forth. They aren't worthless or "nothing" as u wrote above but, they can't be overemphasized as most us get caught up doing from time to time (some more than others methinks) or all too often.
To get complimented by the soul who doesn't live & breathe it every day, somehow means MORE than the one who does it with everyone he meets. Forgiveness is like that-for me. If it comes too easy, too fast, It may be totally devoid of any real meat behind it. But mere words.
A sincere heart-felt apology is what is important, this is what moves us.if u include its REALLY MORE important
for them, the transgressor.
Re: forgiveness-- I did something really bad (cheated) that I feel very guilty & remorseful for every day for over 2 yrs now. I did counselling and was told I have to "forgive" myself and yet haven't and can't imagine I ever will. So how does one deal with that? Advice?
2Likes
forgiveness, how so/what cost? 
Re: forgiveness, how so/what cost? 
. Ideally yer right in that 
if u include its REALLY MORE important
