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post #31 of 79 (permalink) Old 04-08-2015, 07:35 PM
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Re: Former Christian but wife still believes

"If there was a god, he could produce much better evidencd and communicate to us in a far more efficient and clear means than the bible".

He is sovereign he communicates to his creation in a way he pleases .

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post #32 of 79 (permalink) Old 04-08-2015, 07:53 PM
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Re: Former Christian but wife still believes

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Look aspy- I'm not sure what the advantage to me or anyone would be to pretend that I was a Christian so I could marry a Christian? I know it takes faith to believe this stuff. It has to because without faith, you can't get around the issues of the bible and religion in general. To me none of it makes sense. You won't change my mind on that - I've had about 25 years in the faith so I'm well aware of your points. I've heard it all before by many different sources.

And if you think it takes faith to be an atheist then you're ignorant of what atheism is. I simply don't believe any of the religious sources. I'm not making a claim of knowledge that God doesn't exist. I'm simply not buying into any of the bible Or apologetic arguments for it - at least none of the ones I've heard. If there was a god, he could produce much better evidencd and communicate to us in a far more efficient and clear means than the bible. Heck I think anyone could come up with a better system to get the message out - even without Devine powers. Think of it this way - you likely have an atheistic view on Hinduism, Greek gods, etc... You simply don't believe them or their sources and don't acknowledge that those gods are real. Well that's me about all religions and gods. Not that I looked into them all - I think it'd be a waste of time but I can paint them all with the same broad brush of disbelieve. I can't say they are all wrong with 100% certainty. I just highly doubt them.

Well look there - theological debate. Not surprising.

So nobody here in my situation then Huh?
No, it does take FAITH to be an atheist = especially if your not quite sure if God exists or not - lets see:

If you don't believe God exists - you have FAITH that somehow, against all odds ( I mean huge) that life would just magically appear from NOTHING. Take whatever Theory you like (non of them ever proven by the way) and its all the same - Atheist has FAITH that we are just here by LUCK.

Say you do believe a God created us - you have FAITH that this GOD - that created a UNIVERSE LARGER THAN YOU CAN FATHOM - cannot have willed the Bible to be written by man in such a way that HE is considered the author. Because I tell you - the only way you can make that claim is if you KNOW - and I can promise you - UNLESS YOU ARE A GOD - you DO NOT KNOW.
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post #33 of 79 (permalink) Old 04-08-2015, 08:06 PM
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Re: Former Christian but wife still believes

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"If there was a god, he could produce much better evidencd and communicate to us in a far more efficient and clear means than the bible".

He is sovereign he communicates to his creation in a way he pleases .
A convenient excuse for all kinds of nonsensical and illogical behaviors. A God probably wouldn't be so inconsistent and irrational - else he'd be human and a human construction.

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post #34 of 79 (permalink) Old 04-08-2015, 09:30 PM
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Re: Former Christian but wife still believes

how is God inconsistent ?
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post #35 of 79 (permalink) Old 04-09-2015, 01:42 PM
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Re: Former Christian but wife still believes

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how is God inconsistent ?
HE keeps making things new, and pretends to forget stuff from the past.
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post #36 of 79 (permalink) Old 04-10-2015, 07:41 AM
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Re: Former Christian but wife still believes

I think all the discussion about if him stepping away from Christianity is wrong needs to stop. He purposefully asked those who viewed his thread to not make a judgement on his path but to give him advice as to how to make his marriage work with differing views as well as to raise his children.

Discussing Jesus dying on the cross, whether atheism is better or not, or talking about the personality of God is not what this thread is for.

We should seek to uplift the OP in his post and to help him with his problem, regardless of our religious orientation, instead of trying to make the point that my viewpoint is most correct and brow-beating him and other posters into agreeing with us.
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post #37 of 79 (permalink) Old 04-10-2015, 09:00 AM
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Re: Former Christian but wife still believes

The problem in this thread is that he is only responding to the religious debate. I made a point about how the way he worded what he would say to his kids was a problem, nothing to say about faith or religion, and it went un-noticed.

The OP's situation can work just fine, if he isn't condescending and antagonistic about it. However, from all appearances here, he is, so no, it wont work.
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post #38 of 79 (permalink) Old 04-10-2015, 10:12 AM
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Former Christian but wife still believes

OP, there are some passionate folks on here that feel the need to defend their beliefs as if the absence of your belief is an outright attack. You and I both know the power of religious conviction and faith. I believe that you are correct in assuming that this divide in your beliefs with your wife is a serious problem that could be a deal breaker. Only you and your wife can determine that. I think you need to sit down with her and have a discussion about whether she can accept your lack of belief in Christianity. You also would need to accept her beliefs without judgement. It sounds like you think less of her for not discrediting her belief system. If you BOTH can accept that it is ok for two people to have a solid marriage without agreement on this issue then you might be able each instill in your children different viewpoints so that they can make their own decisions. However, if her belief is that you are coming between your children and their salvation, you have a major problem.

I grew up in a strict Christian household. Somewhere along the way I questioned things and came to the conclusion that I don't believe any of it. Going into my marriage I still had mixed feelings and I had not made that conclusion yet. My wife believes in Christianity, but does not practice it. Therefore, she believes we're both going to hell. It doesn't seem to trouble her all that much. We don't really talk about it either. One time it came up and she mentioned that if I no longer believed it would be a problem for her. However, I'm not evangelizing my non-belief and trying to convert her. Why would we proclaim a non-conviction? I am not passionate about my belief that there is no God. I just admit it to myself and move on. You are creating tension by trying to get her on board. Can you accept her beliefs as something that brings her life meaning and stability? You're asking her to do that with acceptance of your non-belief.
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post #39 of 79 (permalink) Old 04-10-2015, 02:07 PM
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Re: Former Christian but wife still believes

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If you don't believe God exists - you have FAITH that somehow, against all odds ( I mean huge) that life would just magically appear from NOTHING.
So if you bielive in GOD then you think GOD appeared from nothing!
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post #40 of 79 (permalink) Old 04-10-2015, 02:25 PM
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Re: Former Christian but wife still believes

There's a forum for debating the merits of other people's faiths. This isn't it. It's over in the politics/religion section.

This forum is for people to get relationship advice from a spiritual point of view.


Darling it's better down where it's wetter, take it from me! --- Sebastian
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post #41 of 79 (permalink) Old 04-11-2015, 01:55 PM
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Re: Former Christian but wife still believes

Misfits,

I'm sorry this thread degraded into one that's arguing FOR and AGAINST Christianity, as that is not what this thread is about. As I understand it, what you want to know is if there is any hope of the two of you staying together and, at the same time, you staying true to yourself and your actual beliefs.

Here's my thought, and I offer these as someone who considers herself a Christian, meaning a believer in Jesus Christ and what He taught. Okay, first, I don't see sufficient grounds for your wife to divorce you solely based on this issue (You may have other issues that I'm not aware of, but we're not addressing those here). Even though YOU don't ascribe to it, your wife does, and in the Bible in I Corinthians 7, the apostle Paul describes married life between a believer and non-believer. In verse 12 of that chapter he gets specific, and I'll paraphrase here, but essentially he says that if a Christian is married to a non-believer, and the non-believer is willing to stay married, then the believer must not divorce because the household can be blessed by the believer and the way they ACT. In verse 15 he says if they non-believer wants to go--wants to divorce--that it's okay to let them go and live a life of peace. So from just a moral point of view on this one topic, there is not a moral basis for divorce.

To you, I would say that most Christians are not trained in thinking, in logic, or in truly facing and defending their beliefs. Being very general, many "believe because that's what they've been told or taught" and have never really faced their beliefs head on and thought it through. So for many Christians this is scary because "What if.....?" Now, not all are this way so don't get me wrong! I think, just in general, people are afraid to look at their core beliefs and think "What if what I've been believing all along is wrong?" because it might require them to change who they are at their core. Right? That is scary!

Sooo...I would suggest, when talking to your wife, that a) you encourage her to learn a thing called apologetics--which is a fancy term for "defending the faith." There are books about it and everything, and she would basically be learning how to defend what she believes and why. I think this would give her a little more courage in talking to you, and I believe it would lead to some excellent discussions between the two of you as long as they didn't degrade into ad hominem attacks, etc.

b) I'd suggest that with the kids, maybe rather than facing it like "Dad is attacking what Mom believes...Mom is attacking what Dad believes" that the two of you JOIN FORCES to teach the child how to think and make decisions using logic and reason. For example, rather than making a dynamic of "Dad vs. Mom" have the dynamic be: "As a team we want to teach you logic so you can learn the ability to think!" and then both with your wife and with the children demonstrate them how to respectfully disagree. So what I'm saying is teach your children formal logic.

See, if the children are taught HOW TO THINK and are taught how to not be afraid to challenge "what they're told" to find out why do we do that and why do we believe that...they will have a valuable tool! And your wife can be a living model in her own home of defending Christianity...and you can be a living model of your own beliefs.

Make sense? Oh and btw, I do hear and recognize that you think you'll never believe again, but I do pray that maybe one day, God will send someone with strong apologetic skills to defend the ration and logic of the Christian worldview into your life.

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Last edited by Affaircare; 04-11-2015 at 02:06 PM.
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post #42 of 79 (permalink) Old 04-11-2015, 02:34 PM
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Re: Former Christian but wife still believes

I really like AffairCare's post.

My thoughts on this are it's really up to your wife. Changing of faith can be a gamechanger, depending on the Other Spouses view points. I don't actually think you betrayed her, but I do think she could feel that way, and it wouldn't be unreasonable.

She's going to have to decide what she wants to do. That sucks for both of you. Sorry.
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post #43 of 79 (permalink) Old 04-14-2015, 11:27 AM Thread Starter
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Re: Former Christian but wife still believes

Thanks for all the replies. We had a talk about this issue And are leaving it at we will not talk religion. It's kind of sad but way better than arguing. I'm fairly new to atheism but it's become a fascination for me. I would love for her to think about what she believes. I've tried a few times to start discussions but she gets highly offended. So I'm now respecting her and staying away from discussing it. This sucks because it's my new topic of books, podcast, etc and it's hard to not talk about something you are passionate about with your spouse. But I am and i will. I hope she joins me in the "dark" side (reality) someday but I'll avoid brining it up. Some of you had great input and thanks for that. We'll be fine. Christian/religious conversation has Ben absent from our conversations for a very long time - even when I still believed. Thanks for all the input.
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post #44 of 79 (permalink) Old 04-14-2015, 04:50 PM
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Re: Former Christian but wife still believes

Not, if you respect and love your wife it is not hard at all. It is easy to talk about a million other things in your life. Well, unless you are trying to make her believe what you believe. If so, which is kind of the tone of your post, I'd be highly offended as well.

Why did I say tone? You KNOW she is religious and hurt at your switch. The fact you think it is okay, since you are new to atheism, to discuss something that fundamentally discounts her belief sounds somewhat arrogant to me.

Yes, I am speaking from similar experience. I do not miss nor feel like I lost something by not discussing one little thing with my wife.
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post #45 of 79 (permalink) Old 04-16-2015, 04:47 AM
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Re: Former Christian but wife still believes

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You are correct. I should not have wrote it that way. When I think of Africa, I think of drought and starvation - I see flies everywhere - and I am sure the entire country is not like that - it is just what I have seen on TV. That was my point by the way. Maybe I should have referred to the death camps that Hitler set up instead.
Africa is not a country, sigh! Maybe it's time to pick up another book apart from the bible and read it. Your comments are irresponsible and hurtful.
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