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post #76 of 79 (permalink) Old 04-26-2016, 11:28 AM
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Re: Former Christian but wife still believes

Originally Posted by Misfits View Post
I'm not looking for a theological debate. I'm interested in hearing thoughts on how to make things work in the marriage and with raising children. I grew up in a religious setting. 10 years ago I met my wife with the premise that I was a christian albeit in need of work, and with aspirations of becoming a better christian. After the birth of our son 7 years ago I started having doubts. I started reading sources, listening to podcasts, and thinking outside the comforts of pro christian views. I've always had some doubts but was nervous of venturing away from pro christian sources to find my answers.

So here I am today. A solid atheist. I've never felt better nor more liberated in my spiritual views - well lack there of. However my wife is very much a christian and wants to increase our christian activities - like go to church more etc.

Here's the rub: our kids. At this point I'm ok with them going to church and believing in things like Noah and the bible. In fact I think it paints a better picture for questions on death - oh grandma is in heaven and we'll see her again someday. I think theres nothing wrong with these views...for now. But i've made it crystal clear to my wife that when the time comes when they are in early teens (or sooner) and they develop deeper cognitive abilities and question things, I'll not hold back my knowledge or what current history, archeology, science etc... has to say about things.

This is very challenging for my wife. Our marriage is rocky as it is. This puts more stress on it. Has anyone out there overcome such a difference in views. I feel like I betrayed her in a sense because when we met and during the first part of marriage I was very much pro christian and wanted to become a "stronger" christian. She married me under those conditions. I can no longer fulfill that. This isn't some mid-life crises either- You could sooner convince me that the Mormon, muslim, hindu religion is real. I'll never again believe in the bible. so it's not a phase. I think she hopes (and prays) that i'll return to faith. That will not happen. Id rather not divorce over this since I'm in this for the kids. But I dont want a hostile environment either.

I was sort of hoping that civilized discussions could ensue and she'd maybe listen to my side. She's never been one to explore the real history or reasons behind her beliefs. She's in the camp that the bible is real because it says so and God made it. The few little talks we have were disastrous resulting in her being offended. I think she's threatened by my views and is perhaps worried that it could impact her fragile faith. Secretly I was hoping to deconvert her to avoid this whole mess but instead it becomes an argument with her getting pissed.
I was brought up Christian, but have learnt a few things since coming to the USA. The style of speech in the USA is very literal. On a UK board, I could write "He is very busy at work at tells me about it all afternoon without break", there is a clear suggestion that the person is not really busy at all. In the USA, I would have to spell it out as "He says he is busy. But, in the afternoon he does not work hard but just talks all the time". People in the USA who really wanted to get my true meaning would insist from the first sentence that he was very busy.

I had someone make an anti-Catholic point quoting Jesus in Matthew saying to call no man your Father. However, that is presumably what Jesus called Joseph. He also said to call no other man teacher, but then referred to men as teachers. Jesus was talking as people spoke and that is not as English-speaking USA people speak.

There is truth in the Bible, just as there is truth when a grandchild speaks at its Grandmum's funeral, but the coroner's report is more likely to be technically correct. More truth is found in the Grandchild. Where I am going, is if someone is very attached to their interpretation of the words, give up with reason.

If they understand the spirit, then accept it and all will be well.

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post #77 of 79 (permalink) Old 06-20-2016, 11:44 AM
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Re: Former Christian but wife still believes

I have read the first three pages of this thread and decided to jump and make a few posts. If they have been discussed I apologize.

OP exactly what is your problem? You are an atheist, fine so what is your problem with commandments 2 though 10? You don't need to believe in a god to know they are true and she does? Then so what? Are you really going to get into a pissing contest about how many angeis can fit on the head of a needle.

As to your kids, again if you believe in 2 though 9 because she is christian and you are X then again the point is the values being taught are valid.

Are you fimilar with secular humanism? Yet another example of reinventing the wheel. Would you rather be married to an atheists who believes adultery is fine and life affirming or a muslin who is both a pacifist who believes in fidelity? It is that simple. Do you find your wife to be preachy, well she finds you that why to.

If you read the bible and substitute "life experience" for god it is the longest written case study of western history. As posts on TAM so is the bible.

The bible will tell you careful what you ask for, you might get it. Will you be happy if your wife says your right, I've wasted my life and I am a fool. Becomes an atheist, walks out the door, joins a commune, and embraces it us all good, do your own thing?

Here is truth for every fault, and there are thousands, of organized religion I can point to a similar fault in atheism and human secularism.

Have you ever really engaged in a dialogue, not conversion? Yes you want your wife to convert so your children will too. Dialogue is an attempt to better understand your faith though the eyes of those who either believe as you do but from a different faith or even those who disagree with your basic values of though shalt not steal.
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post #78 of 79 (permalink) Old 06-20-2016, 11:50 AM
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Location: Tampa area
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Re: Former Christian but wife still believes

(sigh) OP is there something going on in faith community that is causing a rift in your marriage because you are an atheist? Is someone telling her to divorce and remarry within her faith community? If she is listening, she is a fool. If she is doubting your marriage on this point alone, she is a fool.
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post #79 of 79 (permalink) Old 06-21-2016, 01:19 AM
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Re: Former Christian but wife still believes

Originally Posted by JohnA View Post
I have read the first three pages of this thread and decided to jump and make a few posts. If they have been discussed I apologize.
The last time @Misfits logged on here was back in April 2015, so you may be barking up an empty tree.

Originally Posted by JohnA View Post
OP exactly what is your problem? You are an atheist, fine so what is your problem with commandments 2 though 10? You don't need to believe in a god to know they are true and she does? Then so what? Are you really going to get into a pissing contest about how many angeis can fit on the head of a needle.
Maybe @Misfits has no respect for biblical hypocrisy?

The Second Commandment:

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Exodus 20:4

Except for the times when it is okay to make likenesses of things that are in heaven above...

And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, ... Thou shalt make two cherubims of gold ... And the cherubims shall stretch forth their wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces shall look to one another. Exodus 25:1, 18-20

The Third Commandment:

Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. Exodus 20:7

Utter Nonsense! Perhaps @Misfits doesn't believe he ought to be stoned to death by his wife's congregation?

And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying ... he that blasphemeth the name of the LORD, he shall surely be put to death, and all the congregation shall certainly stone him. Leviticus 24:13-16

The Fourth Commandment:

Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Exodus 20:8

Except for the times when the sabbath is considered an iniquity...

Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity. Isaiah 1:13

The Fifth Commandment:

Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. Exodus 20:12

Except for the times when thou hates and disrespects their parents...

And he said unto another, Follow me. But he said, Lord, suffer me first to go and bury my father. Jesus said unto him, Let the dead bury their dead. Luke 9:59-60

If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. Luke 14:26

And when they saw him, they were amazed: and his mother said unto him, Son, why hast thou thus dealt with us? behold, thy father and I have sought thee sorrowing. And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business? Luke 2:48-49

The Sixth Commandment:

Thou shalt not kill. Exodus 20:13

Except for the times when thou shalt kill...

For everything there is a season ... a time to kill. Ecclesiastes 3:1-3

Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live. Exodus 22:18

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. Leviticus 20:13

If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; and they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die. Deuteronomy 21:18-21

Thus saith the Lord God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side ... and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbor. Exodus 32:27

Thus saith the Lord of hosts ... go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare him not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. 1 Samuel 15:2-3

The Seventh Commandment:

Thou shalt not commit adultery. Exodus 20:14

Except for the times when thou shalt commit adultery...

And the Lord said to Hosea, Go, take unto thee a wife of wh0redoms.... Hosea 1:2

Then said the Lord unto me, God yet, love a woman beloved of her friend, yet an adulteress. Hosea 3:1

The Eighth Commandment:

Thou shalt not steal. Exodus 20:15

Except for the times when thou shalt steal...

And the children of Israel did according to the word of Moses; and they borrowed of the Egyptians ... and they spoiled the Egyptians. Exodus 12:35-36

Israel shall go forth, and ... spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robben them, saith the Lord God. Ezekiel 39:9-10

Nineveh is of old like a pool of wate ... Take ye the spoil of silver, take the spoil of gold: for there is none end of the store and glory out of all the pleasant furniture. Nahum 2:9

The just took the spoils of the wicked. Wisdom 10:19

The Ninth Commandment:

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. Exodus 20:16

Except for the times when it is okay to bear false witness against thy neighbours...

And the king of Egypt called for the midwives, and said unto them, Why have ye done this thing, and have saved the men-children alive? And the midwives said unto Pharaoh, Because the Hebrew women are not as the Egyptian women; for they are lively, and are delivered ere the midwives come in unto them. Therefore God dealt well with the midwives. Exodus 1:18-20

And the woman [Rahab] took the two men and hid them and said thus: There came men unto me, but I wist not whence they were; and it came to pass about the time of shutting of the gate, when it was dark that the men went out; whither the men went I wot not; pursue after them quickly, for ye shall overtake them. But she had brought them up to the roof of the house and hid them with the stalks of flax. Joshua 2:4-6
Was not Rahab, the harlot, justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?. James 2:25

Tobias said to him: I pray thee, tell me, of what family, or what tribe art thou? And Raphael the angel answered ... I am Azarias. Tobit 5:16-18

Go ye up unto this feast: I go not up yet unto this feast. ... But when his brethren were gone up, then went he also up unto the feast, not openly, but as it were in secret. John 7:8-10

And there came forth a spirit, and stood before the Lord, and said, I will persuade him ... I will go forth and be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets. And he said, Thou shalt persuade him and prevail also; go forth and do so. 1 Kings 22:21-22

The Tenth Commandment:

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. Exodus 20:17

Aside from the fact that wives are considered to be property, that whole slavery thing being okay as it is written in the bible is rather repugnant...

And the LORD hath blessed my master [Abraham] greatly; and he is become great: and he hath given him flocks, and herds, and silver, and gold, and menservants, and maidservants, and camels, and asses. Genesis 24:35

Abram said unto Sarai, Behold, thy maid is in thine hand; do to her as it pleaseth thee. And when Sarai dealt hardly with her, she fled from her face. ... And he said, Hagar, Sarai's maid, whence camest thou? and whither wilt thou go? And she said, I flee from the face of my mistress Sarai. And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her. hands. Genesis 16:8-9

Then Isaac sowed in that land, and received in the same year an hundredfold: and the LORD blessed him. And the man waxed great, and went forward, and grew until he became very great: For he had possession of flocks, and possession of herds, and great store of servants. Genesis 26:12-14

Now therefore ye are cursed, and there shall none of you be freed from being bondmen, and hewers of wood and drawers of water for the house of my God. ... And Joshua made them that day hewers of wood and drawers of water for the congregation, and for the altar of the LORD, even unto this day. Joshua 9:23-27

And if thy brother, an Hebrew man, or an Hebrew woman be sold unto thee.... Deuteronomy 15:12

If the priest buy any soul with his money.... Leviticus 22:11

And if thy brother that dwelleth by thee be waxen poor, and be sold unto thee.... Leviticus 25:39

And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant.... Exodus 21:7

Thy bond-men and thy bond-maids which thou shalt have, shall be of the heathen that are round about you: of them shall ye buy bond-men and bond-maids. Moreover, of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you, of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which they begat in your land. And they shall be your possession. And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession, they shall be your bond-man forever. Leviticus 25:44-46

If a man smite his servant or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand, he shall be surely punished; notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished, for he is his money. Exodus 21:20-21
And if a man smite the eye of his servant, or the eye of his maid, that it perish; he shall let him go free for his eye's sake. And if he smite out his manservant's tooth, or his maidservant's tooth; he shall let him go free for his tooth's sake. Exodus 21:26-27

And whosoever lieth carnally with a woman, that is a bondmaid, betrothed to an husband, and not at all redeemed, nor freedom given her; she shall be scourged; they shall not be put to death, because she was not free. Leviticus 19:20

When thou comest nigh unto a city to fight against it, then proclaim peace unto it. And it shall be, if it make thee answer of peace, and open unto thee, then it shall be, that all the people that is found therein shall be tributaries unto thee, and they shall serve thee. Deuteronomy 20:10-11
But the women, and the little ones, and the cattle, and all that is in the city, even all the spoil thereof, shalt thou take unto thyself. Deuteronomy 20:14

The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. Luke 12:46-47
But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat? And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink? Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not. Luke 17:7-9

Art thou called being a servant? care not for it: but if thou mayest be made free, use it rather. For he that is called in the Lord, being a servant, is the Lord's freeman: likewise also he that is called, being free, is Christ's servant. 1 Corinthians 7:21-22
Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God. Ephesians 6:5

Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ. Colossians 3:22

Masters, give unto your servants that which is just and equal; knowing that ye also have a Master in heaven. Colossians 4:1

Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their masters worthy of all honor, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed. And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. These things teach and exhort. If any man teach otherwise ... he is proud, knowing nothing.... From such withdraw thyself. 1 Timothy 6:1-5

Servants, obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God. Titus 2:9-10

Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward. 1 Peter 2:18

Charming! (sarc)

Last edited by Personal; 06-21-2016 at 01:28 AM.
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