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post #16 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-08-2015, 08:09 AM
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Re: Christian contemplating divorce

The purpose of the law is to show us how unworthy we are and in need of salvation. For everything there is a season and a time for every purpose under heaven. The same God that gave life to all creatures also gave animals the ability to hide, escape, fight, and kill.
You were not created in the image of God to be abused, belittled, or imprisoned.
My mom (a devout Christian) was physically and psychologically abused by my dad for many years. I'm sure she engaged in the same self-debate you are having. While she was with my dad, she was a half person, maybe a quarter person. She couldn't be all that God expected and planned for her. She eventually left my dad and ultimately married a decent Christian man. Together, they run a business, a church, and a non-profit ministry for the poor. She is now a whole person and a far more effective servant for God. I can't imagine that a loving God would prefer his child be abused. Maybe because she left him, my dad started getting his head screwed on straight and now he, too, is a far better person and he is married to a stronger woman whom he treats with respect.
When the books of the Bible were written, women were basically property, themselves, and had no property rights. If a man divorced his wife back then, she was condemned to be a beggar or a prostitute. The same Bible that says it's a sin to commit adultery also says a deceased man's brother is supposed to have sex with his brother's widow. Again, any historical writing (even the Bible) has to be viewed in the context of the times it was written. Property was handed down through male heirs, so having a son was vital for a widow's survival.
I've got a couple daughters whom I love. I know God loves them even more. I couldn't bear the thought of my children living in an abusive relationship and I'm only a miserable, sinful, mortal. I really can't imagine that a God who knitted you in the womb in his own image, who knows exactly how many hairs are on your head, who actually feels everything in your heart, would be pleased to watch you merely exist in an abusive relationship. I think He would be especially displeased if He thought you were trapped only because you believed it was His will. If He didn't pick this guy for you, why would you blame Him for your continued unhappiness?

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post #17 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-08-2015, 10:16 AM
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Re: Christian contemplating divorce

By the time Jesus spoke about marriage, the divorce rate was far worse then that of today. Men in particular would marry and divorce 5 or six times. The women would just leave then men, and until the man gave her a written divorce she was not allowed to remarry, lest she faced death or banishment for adultery.
-Josephus

In Hebrews Paul talks of a wife, so miserable, that she waits for her elder husband to die, so that she can be released from her depravity. Now Paul is talking about Israel and the depravity of sin, but the metaphor does draw parallel to marriage, because God created marriage as a metaphor for His relationship to mankind.

Hon, you are enslaved, God calls us to freedom, He hates divorce, He delights in obedience, but that doesn't mean that you are called to fall on your sword for an unrighteous man.

God hates oppression, strife, and a trite spirit. God hates abuse. What is marriage, if you stand better alone, what is marriage if your spouse is not there to build you up, what is marriage if your spouse is what beats you down.

God calls us to be free.

Don't resent your faith because you feel enslaved by its convictions.

Thank God for your freedom to turn your back on evil.
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post #18 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-09-2015, 04:13 PM
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Re: Christian contemplating divorce

Frostingswirls,

If you feel that you cannot divorce because of your religious beliefs, there is something that you can do. You can live separately.

There is what is called a "legal separation" in most states. This was created for circumstances exactly like this. It gives you the protections of a divorce without it being an actual divorce.

Perhaps you should see a lawyer and investigate this path.
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post #19 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-09-2015, 04:51 PM
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Re: Christian contemplating divorce

Frostingswirl

That God hates divorce is not the same thing as God forbidding divorce

The Bible says that God has experienced divorce; in fact God was the initiator of the Divorce:
God Speaking: "I divorced faithless Israel because of her adultery" Jer 3:8
God hates the pain, but the piece of paper stamped by a judge is not the “divorce”. The divorce happened when the covenant was broken and trampled without regard nor remorse.

Read the Old Testament passage where the phrase "God hates divorce" comes from: Malachi 2 It is the covenant breaking that God hates

Click here for the Greek word used in the New Testament passages speaking of divorce “put away” Notice the definition includes: neglect, disregard, abandon, to leave one by not taking him as a companion.

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post #20 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-09-2015, 05:16 PM
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Re: Christian contemplating divorce

Because Joseph was a righteous man he chose to put away Mary quietly.

Here the word describes a man divorcing his espoused bride as a righteous man.

He could have chosen to banish her publicly, probably even having her beaten, but he choose the righteous way out.
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post #21 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-09-2015, 06:47 PM
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Re: Christian contemplating divorce

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Originally Posted by gouge_away View Post
Because Joseph was a righteous man he chose to put away Mary quietly.

Here the word describes a man divorcing his espoused bride as a righteous man.

He could have chosen to banish her publicly, probably even having her beaten, but he choose the righteous way out.
I agree with everything you've said in this thread, except the part about Joseph. He wasn't divorcing her from a state of being fully married. They were only betrothed. The Bible says if you find some 'unclean-ness' in her, you could put them away. When she was found to be preggo, and Joseph knew he wasn't the father it was his right to break the engagement/betrothel. He would have been in full compliance of the old Testament law.

In Frostyswirls case, Biblically speaking she could separate herself from him and remain single or be reconciled….remarriage is not allowed. Sometimes it's not easy being a follower of the Way.

Unfortunately this is also a good example to explain to your kids and the youngsters in your church community of the importance of choosing wisely your spouse.
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post #22 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-09-2015, 08:03 PM
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Re: Christian contemplating divorce

Their marriage wasn't consummated, you are correct.

Their is a good chance (should she legally separate) he would eventually file a response to divorce her.
Then she is free.
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post #23 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-09-2015, 08:39 PM
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Re: Christian contemplating divorce

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Their marriage wasn't consummated, you are correct.

Their is a good chance (should she legally separate) he would eventually file a response to divorce her.
Then she is free.
She would, indeed, be free from him, but not free to remarry.

Despite being legally divorced, in God's eyes she would still be married…..as expressed in the phrases…..'what God has put together let no man put asunder', and 'til death do you part'.
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post #24 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-11-2015, 01:02 AM
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Re: Christian contemplating divorce

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Originally Posted by OnTheFly View Post
She would, indeed, be free from him, but not free to remarry.

Despite being legally divorced, in God's eyes she would still be married…..as expressed in the phrases…..'what God has put together let no man put asunder', and 'til death do you part'.
Honest question. How do we know that God put together the marriage in the first place? Moreover if we assume that he did, why not assume that a divorce, particularly in these circumstances, is not also of the same origin?
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post #25 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-11-2015, 01:19 AM
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Re: Christian contemplating divorce

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Honest question. How do we know that God put together the marriage in the first place? Moreover if we assume that he did, why not assume that a divorce, particularly in these circumstances, is not also of the same origin?
Marriage is from God, divorce is not from God.

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post #26 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-11-2015, 02:28 AM
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Re: Christian contemplating divorce

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Originally Posted by gouge_away View Post
Marriage is from God, divorce is not from God.
Apparently not always:
Quote:
God Speaking: "I divorced faithless Israel because of her adultery" Jer 3:8
But more to the point the OP's husband admitted he was never attracted to her which I'd say means he never entered into the marriage convenient honestly himself. He deceived her.

Was God a partner in his deception and are False marriages from God also? Of course not, but then all these references to the text that counsel her to spend the rest of her life a spinster, probably with a troop of 64 cats, do not seem to apply. The State would not go for an annulment, but I know there are churches that would accept this admission as grounds for a spiritual annulment. Catholics for example.

I know everyone means well, but giving that sort of life long advice to someone without direct and independent knowledge of the people involved, like a local pastor or IC might, seems like a an overreach.
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post #27 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-14-2015, 12:49 PM
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Re: Christian contemplating divorce

Frostingswirls,

Jesus' concerns in Matt 5:31-32 is the dishonorable act of "righteous men of the law" creating frivolous reasons to divorce their spouse, yet still act as if they themselves are righteous.

The original law was abused by men in an era where women in an ancient near-eastern honor/shame culture bore the brunt of community shame when discarded by her husband and had no recourse to rebuild their lives when they had been scapegoated undeservedly. A certificate of divorce was meant to be for righteous reasons (such as adultery), but the men were creating loopholes (because they operated within the law and not by spiritual love) to get out of marriage for their own selfish reasons and the shame was still being dumped upon the hapless women who lived within an era of honor/shame community standards that made her an adulteress if she tried to remarry.

Jesus, in this passage is shaming men who turned away their wives into community dishonor...when they were innocent...and were more than likely being victimized because their husbands were looking for a way out in order to "legally" remarry someone else.

People still get divorced for frivolous reasons, but emotional abuse is not frivolous. Yes, God hates divorce and I believe would want for us to dig deep and seek reconciliation and honor our vows, but what do you do when your spouse is not honoring his/her vows? Love? Honor? Cherish? Seems to me that you have been misled and that your husband isn't walking with the Lord and is only using Scripture for control.

Refuse to be scapegoated or guilted. This is abuse, and you don't have to take it anymore.
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post #28 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-15-2015, 06:24 AM
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Re: Christian contemplating divorce

You fix this by no longer tolerating his abuse, my Christian Sister. One way or another, by taking it to the church, boundaries, separation or divorce, or all of those, his abuse MUST be addressed. Part of being his helpmate is choosing not to enable his evil behavior. I walked this road. I have many resources in my signature line that will help you learn to no longer tolerate it and to make a stand against evil behaviors he is choosing toward you.

The day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to Blossom. - Anais Nin
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post #29 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-15-2015, 08:00 AM
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Re: Christian contemplating divorce

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Originally Posted by ScrambledEggs View Post
Honest question. How do we know that God put together the marriage in the first place? Moreover if we assume that he did, why not assume that a divorce, particularly in these circumstances, is not also of the same origin?
God pretty clearly told us what his idea of a decent husband (and wife) were. If someone maintains communication with God, studies, and speaks to Him frequently even before looking for a guy or gal, they aren't likely to end up with someone He wouldn't approve of. Instead of looking for a cute partner, a rich partner, a funny partner, or exciting partner, if we set out asking Him to send us the partner that He wants, our outcomes would be very different.

I'll readily admit I have messed up more than once in the mate-selection department and on each occasion, I had to ignore His written guidance before I made a mistake. I don't believe you're going to find God's perfect mate for you in a bar. You won't be shacking up with them before marriage. You won't be dealing with their drug or alcohol addictions. You won't be exchanging nude selfies with them. They won't be encouraging you to commit adultery. They won't be in constant strife with their parents or their employer. They won't be miserable being alone.
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post #30 of 37 (permalink) Old 05-15-2015, 09:05 AM
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Re: Christian contemplating divorce

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God pretty clearly told us what his idea of a decent husband (and wife) were. If someone maintains communication with God, studies, and speaks to Him frequently even before looking for a guy or gal, they aren't likely to end up with someone He wouldn't approve of. Instead of looking for a cute partner, a rich partner, a funny partner, or exciting partner, if we set out asking Him to send us the partner that He wants, our outcomes would be very different.

I'll readily admit I have messed up more than once in the mate-selection department and on each occasion, I had to ignore His written guidance before I made a mistake. I don't believe you're going to find God's perfect mate for you in a bar. You won't be shacking up with them before marriage. You won't be dealing with their drug or alcohol addictions. You won't be exchanging nude selfies with them. They won't be encouraging you to commit adultery. They won't be in constant strife with their parents or their employer. They won't be miserable being alone.
And just because you got stuck with a Leah, doesn't mean your Rachel isn't worth waiting for the 2nd time around.
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